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Hi Everyone,

I wonder if anyone can help me with Moorcroft. I am new to this so please bear with me.

I have taken some advice from reading other similar posts on here, but am unsure how to proceed next.

 

Basically my husband and I once had a current account with Alliance and Leicester which was moved over to Santander when they took over the bank.

 

We got into financial difficulties on the account after my husband was taken ill and I lost my job due to redundancy.

 

All in all, the amount owed is less than £1000.

 

The bulk of the debt we owe is charges that they kept putting on the account like £50 a week for being overdrawn and so we closed the account to stop it getting any worse.

 

We were originally paying the bank back at £10 per month as that was all we could afford,

but they stopped hassling us for a while after we told them we couldn't afford the repayment

as they were waiting for the outcome of the OFT investigation into the

unfair bank charges to see whether they might have to repay some of them.

 

Anyway it has now been passed to Moorcroft who have been harrassing us constantly over the phone

and demanding repayment and also threatening home visits.

 

We sent them a CCA request (which they have not complied with after looking at posts on here).

 

We know they received it as it was signed for by them

and we thought the next stage would be to send them the "Account in Dispute" letter when the time limit for a reply expires on Monday next week,

however today I received this letter from their accounts department.

 

I will type it word for word minus my identifiers.

 

It reads as follows:

 

Dear Mr & Mrs -------,

Thankyou for your recently received letter, requesting a copy of your credit agreement pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Please note that certain accounts are excluded from compliance with part V of the Consumer Credit Act

or are not in fact credit or hire agreements and we believe that our client's account falls into one of these categories.

 

We therefore require immediate payment of the sum outstanding or alternatively your client's realistic proposals for repayment of the same.

 

Should you have any questions or require any additional information please do not hesitate to contact us direct on the above telephone number.

Yours sincerely

 

Accounts Department (signed with a squiggle!)

 

The repayment request is rather badly worded as though they are addressing our legal adviser (although we do not have one) and the letter is adressed to us both! They also returned the £1.00 postal order we sent with the letter.

 

Please can somebody help us?

Were we wrong in sending the CCA request?

 

I followed advice on here given to help someone with a Lloyds TSB debt

but later realised that that gentleman's debt was for an unsecured loan he had with that bank.

Have we made ourselves look totally stupid?

and would a current account such as ours really be excluded from compliance with part V of the Consumer Credit Act?

or is this just another scaremongering tactic from Moorcroft to try and bully us into paying?

 

We would really like some advice on what to do next.

 

Whether to go ahead and send them the "Account in Dispute" letter on Monday

when the time limit for complying with the CCA request is up?

or whether we really cannot do that due to the fact this is not a credit or hire agreement as they say?

 

We have already sent them the harassment letter template letter

after the constant phonecalls and threat of a home visit and this seems to have stopped the calls for now.

 

I am really hoping that this is just more threats on their behalf and that we have done the right thing.

 

I feel sick with worry and close to a nervous breakdown because of the stress they are causing.

 

I am in tears every day and I have health problems which are being made worse myself.

 

Really hoping some kind and knowledgeable person can help us here.

 

Thanks so much for any replies.

Edited by dx100uk
inserted line spacing for clarity
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Hi and welcome to CAG

 

Do not worry - help is at hand. The CCA request is not actually appropiate for bank accounts, but you were not to know that, there are other steps you can take to achieve a realistic settlement to this so please do not stress yourself out, it is not worth it.

Please support CAG and they will support you.

donate

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Thanks for the reply Coledog, Any suggestions on what I do next?

I have done some further research and am hoping someone can advise on whteher this would be a suitable letter to send next. I think its basically a "prove it" letter as the previous cca request I sent doesn't apply in my case with this being a current account debt, mainly overdraft charges which we unsuccessfully tried to claim back.

 

Here goes ... please can someone let me know if this sounds suitable:

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

Thank you for your letter dated ///// which I received today.

 

You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by ourselves.

 

I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to Santander.

 

I am familiar with the CPUTR 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading's Guidance on debt collection, which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. AND in not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.

 

I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to Trading Standards and also inform the Office of Fair Trading of your actions.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours Faithfully

The account we held was originally an Alliance and Leicester account but we gather that Santander has now taken over and are therefore disputing the fact that we never held a "Santander" account aswell. There has never been any mention of the original account with A&L so how are we to know?

Any advice gratefully received as I really want to get this sent off as soon as possible. Many Thanks.

Edited by Worried Woman
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Sorry WM, I am a little, how do you say??????? Fluffy?

This is for a 'current account'? No loan or Overdraft?

 

It matters not one iota, do you still bank with the same organisation?

If so how long for, OR have you recently moved accounts?

 

Have you got a copy of their complaints procedure? If not have you requested one?

 

Have you thought of demanding their unfair bank charges to be paid back?

 

How much of the amount that they say is outstanding is THEIR charges?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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when did you take out this bank account?

 

when was YOUR last financial transaction on it?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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i would sar the oc [santendar now]

 

if the bal is mostly charges they'll go nowhere near court - ignore them

 

there's nowt they can do to you

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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As has been said, there really is no need to worry so much. Did you never get any notification of the change to Santander, that is IMO a problem in itself. They should have notified you.

 

Follow the advice already given, they are just being 'bullies' and they are doing it to thousands of people, so in no way take this as personal. From now on insist in everything in writing, and if this is causing your health to deteriorate then you need to send a very brief letter informing them of such (no proof of illness required). Send it by Recorded Delivery as they are obliged by law to take this into consideration.

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Hi there,

In response to everybody's kind replies:

 

Harassed senior - we were never advised that A&L had been taken over by Santander. We just learned this ourselves through reports in the media. The first time the DCA rang us, we told them we had never heard of MDR as they called themselves and had never had an account with Santander!

 

dx100uk - we took the account out with A&L online in 2006.

 

It was a current account with a small overdraft (cant remember how much for exactly)

 

We got into difficulties when my husband became ill and I was made redundant.

 

I think we may have exceeded our overdraft by a few pounds

(it was something ridiculously small like £10 or something and then they started hitting us with ridiculous charges like £50 a week after that.

 

I remember it was something like more than £5 a day for every day we were overdrawn.

 

The fees just got out of control and we were never able to get back to where we had been before to stay within the overdraft.

 

The last transaction would have been 2007 at the latest when we closed the account.

 

We complained vigorously at the time through A&L's complaints procedure but they didn't want to know

and refused to remove any of the charges, basically quoting their t's and c's of the account.

 

We used a template letter from Moneysupermarket .com at the time to try and reclaim the charges

and they finally wrote to us saying our complaint would be put on hold until the outcome of the OFT investigation.

 

We never heard anything from them again until the courts ruled in favour of the banks

and that was when we got the first call form the DCA asking if we had an account with Santander.

 

The original call was about a year ago and as I said we told them we had no account with Santander.

 

We heard nothing until a month or so ago when all the threatening letters and phone calls started from Moorcroft.

 

Up until A&L advised they were waiting for the outcome of the OFT investigation we had been repaying them at £10 per month.

We then stopped.

 

I would say that about £500 - £600 of the amount remaining is bank charges, my husband thinks even more than that was their charges.

 

We owe a little less than £1000, the exact amount I won't disclose just in case any of these bullies are monitoring this forum.

 

Bazooka Boo - I confirm it was a current account taken out online with an overdraft of not more than £1000.

 

I think they sent us documents through the post to sign and I presume we must have both signed and sent them back at the time as it was a joint account.

 

We closed the account no later than 2007.

 

We still had another current account with Barclays that I moved everything back to as we had been with them for years.

 

As I said to dx100uk we did complain and try to reclaim the unfair charges back from them at the time.

 

What does everyone think of the letter I drafted to send to Moorcroft?

 

Should I still send that one along with a SAR request to Santander not Moorcroft? More questions...

 

sorry to be a pain -

 

Would the CCA request I have already sent not apply in this case because of the overdraft we had on the account?

 

I only ask as I thought it might be like a form of credit when they are charging you interest / a fee to use it?

 

In which case the "Account in dispute" letter is now due.

 

Is there a SAR request template I can use to SAR Santander in the library?

and does anyone know the correct Santander address to send it to?

 

Thanks again everyone for all your input.

 

I just need to get my facts straight before I go firing off the wrong letter again!

Edited by dx100uk
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what you have got to look at here is if the OC wanted their money

why have they not asked in the last 4yrs?

 

they wrote it off against tax!

 

you have gotten on a phishing list

 

time to ignore!

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I would agree with the above - ignore - especially because of the fact it has got that far down the chain as to reach mcr-p. Personally I would not even bother wasting £10 on a SAR. They will eventually give up and go away after a few more threats. Santandar have been in the press lately about their appalling customer service.

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Hi ...

 

Current Accounts technically do have part V exemption (which means they don't have to provide a singed executed agreement) ... but only if the provider claims this exemption in their responses to you - which I know Moorcroft have quoted.

 

However, if the account is only being managed by Moorcroft on behalf of Santander, and is not actually owned by Moorcroft ... then I would have directed my CCA request to Santander - and see what the actual creditor comes back with, Moorcroft are nobody until they own the debt.

 

As I say, Part V exemption just means that there is no "traditional" signed agreement - the likes you would have for a credit card of loan .... BUT the creditor still has to send you every other piece of info that is requested in the CCA - which would be terms and conditions, statements etc...etc...

 

Notwithstanding the above ..... when you stepped outside of your authorised limit/closed your account, you would have gone from an approved overdraft interest rate, to the banks unauthorised rate & charges .... in that event the creditor should have, if they wished to continue to enjoy part v exemption, should have within 3 months of you drifitng into unauthroised waters, sent you details of the unauthorised int rate to be charged and penalty charges they would be applying for each month you remain outside of your authorised limit.

 

Penalty of their failure to provide such information within the specified time framed, results in them losing the benefit of part v exemption - which means that they as in normal CCA requests, now HAVE TO PROVIDE you with a correctly executed agreement - of which there will be none - so they are stuffed ..... game over.

 

Abs x

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Thanks everyone so much for bothering to reply. I think you are right in advising me to ignore for now, rather than wasting more energy on this and stressing myself to the hilt about it. I will ignore them for the time being and do nothing, unless I actually receive any court summons or anything from them. I agree it has taken them ages to try and get us to repay this debt back which was all mainly their ridiculous charges anyway. If I do get anything from a court I will of course panic like mad, repost here and then consider sending a SAR request to Santander. For now I will hold onto my £10 which I can ill afford to be spending anyway and hopefully they will go away. Once again, thanks so much to everyone for your replies which have helped to calm me down at my most hysterical! Hopefully this will be the end of all the stress and worry. I'm so glad I found all you supportive people on this forum and will watch with interest other similar posts.

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:-)

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Everyone again!

Just thought I would update on my thread. Well after deciding to ignore Moorcroft after reading all the good advice on here,

I also decided to dig out details of the last time I had made a payment on this account.

 

I thought it had been no later than 2007 which I said earlier, but in fact it was March 2008.

 

I also thought I had been making payments directly to Alliance and Leicester

as the tear off's on the payment slip bear their logo and the letter has their registered address in the small print just above the tear off;

 

HOWEVER I had really being making monthly payments to a DCA mentioned in other threads on the forum by the name of Security Investigations Debt Recovery Division!

 

I had thought that they were some inhouse arm of A&L but apparently not!

 

I guess then that maybe A&L originally passed the account to these people

who terrified me into into paying with their RED headed letters in 2007/2008, before discovering this forum.

 

It appears they must have given up on trying to extort the rest of the money from us

and then waited for almost 3 years before selling it on to Moorcroft after we stopped paying them.

 

Either that or Moorcroft have managed to search our credit file and find the debt was still outstanding?

 

I think that's what some caggers were referring to as "phishing".

 

We first thought something was up when just before Christmas when two other credit accounts we hold drastically reduced our large credit limits to zero with no warning.

 

No doubt the result of some sort of entry on our credit record by Moorcroft. It has all started to add up and make sense now.

 

I guess we will have to wait another few years till around March 2014

before this can become statute barred now and deal with the trashing of our credit etc until this is resolved.

 

What I will do, is try and avoid paying them a single penny as maybe when we stopped paying them they took no further action

because it was unenforceable and they had no right to do so?

 

Hopefully that is the case and Moorcroft will just go away when we refuse to pay them!

 

If it's not I will post again, but wish me luck guys!

 

Thanks for reading!

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It is likely that Moorcroft have only taken over the origional default and changed it to their name. When a DCA buys a debt this is usually the norm. You can check this by looking when the default was first registered on your file (not updated).

They shouldn't be adding a default if one didn't already exist as it would be way out of the time frame for doing so.

 

Keep us updated as things happen

My advice is given through personal experience and is given without prejudice

 

 

If I Have helped please feel free to click the star

:smile:

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Also the date of the default shouldn't change from when you defaulted origionally and should disappear after six years of the origional default, it doesn't matter if you have made a payment inbetween. The only differance is that the enforceability of the debt was reset when you made the last payment

My advice is given through personal experience and is given without prejudice

 

 

If I Have helped please feel free to click the star

:smile:

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WW Please use line breaks>....................i've edited your last msg for you.

 

no what happened was you had been a nice cash cow because you got conned into paying a dca after A+L wrote it off for tax purposes and sold it on....in a phishing list.

 

dca's buy phishing lists from all the major co's or anyone that might hold a debt that they might be able to fleece you upon. they even sell them amoungst themselves.

 

you were just that, a couple of letters and you started coughing up.

 

ignore them till they [ever] produced legal binding aperwork

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I agree with DX, I have had just about all of the DCA's on here at some point chasing debts from the past. I have had up to four different DCA's collecting for the same debt over a period of time.

I never responded to any of them and they all buggered off eventually, except HFO as I answered them eventually (I know I shouldn't of, but was feeling cocky).

 

I must of had over £10k disapear SB , only another £2k to get rid of now.

My advice is given through personal experience and is given without prejudice

 

 

If I Have helped please feel free to click the star

:smile:

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my advice to you (if you can afford it) is to:-

 

1/ buy a truecall (about £70) which attaches to your phone line and you will NEVER again receive any more unwanted calls

 

2/ ignore ALL letters and just file them with the envelope attached in a file UNLESS it is a Letter Before Action

 

Note :- letters that say they MAY take legal action if you do not do this that and the other are of no legal significance and can also be filed unanswered

 

3/ do NOT ever write to them regarding the alleged dent or pay anything

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Ha Ha, Would that be the alleged ' dent ' in the side of my car? or is it because the n is next to the b. just an observation based upon humour.

 

Cheers diddy.

 

Mr

 

 

my advice to you (if you can afford it) is to:-

 

1/ buy a truecall (about £70) which attaches to your phone line and you will NEVER again receive any more unwanted calls

 

2/ ignore ALL letters and just file them with the envelope attached in a file UNLESS it is a Letter Before Action

 

Note :- letters that say they MAY take legal action if you do not do this that and the other are of no legal significance and can also be filed unanswered

 

3/ do NOT ever write to them regarding the alleged dent or pay anything

Regards..Mr Worried :)

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