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Hi am after help please.

 

Fell behind with c/tax ended up owing around £2,300 ish 2 seperate years 2009/2010 owe £792or £772 cant read his writing....... and the other for £1769 and got a visit and wife let em in ...... i know doh! . walking possession listed sofa 3and2 seaters table and chairs all of them 4 living in house bythe way leaves us with no chairs to sit on - car that my wife needs for her business and computer i need for my business got accounts etc dvd welsh dresser 2 tellys a fridge which he has put down as a freezer...........is this unlawful ?

Anyway forced my wife into agreement of £394 per month which cant afford but have made 3 payments and now owe just short of £1300 but this months payment was late due on the 6th paid £170 paid automated their site ,with the rest being paid on tuesday 11th this month. tried phoning an emailing them and the council asking them to take it back but won't and got short shrift and know they will be round need advice on what to do next its worrying the life out of me.... should i pay council from now on ?

Also on the walking possesion agreement / contract to steal my posessions legally lol, they have listed the same items on each agreement is this legal? plus he has signed his name over where their address is so don't know who he is and when i tried to find out they wouldn't tell me.any advice would be very much appreciated.

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Oh no not Ross & Robbers!!!

Ok the levy is unlawful as they cannot place items such as sofa and chairs on them and they know this full well, but they will tell you that if they come for possession of the levied goods they wont take them, bit pointless of the levy really. Ive argued with these people before about putting the same items on two separate levies and technically they cannot do this and they are well aware of this fact also. Once items have been levied they become the property of the authority so listing the same items on a second levy is levying on items that no longer belong to you so the levy is invalid. Two invalid levies no levy fee's.

Start paying the council via their online payment facility making sure you make two separate payments one for each debt with the correct account numbers on them. I would then write to the council stating that the bailiffs have unlawfully levied on items and you no longer wish to deal with them and that you are now going to pay the council direct. They will throw a hissy fit as will the bailiffs but as you are paying there is not much they can do. Only pay the bailiff his two visit fee's as thats all he is entitled too. For a bailiff to force entry they would have to have an order to do so and have to give you a time and date when this will happen, but as you are paying why would the council need to do this and seeming that they cannot take said items what will they be there collecting?

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Have you established from the Council how much you owe - do not believe the Bailiffs figures. You should also write to the Bailiffs asking for a breakdown of their charges - not that I think they will have overcharged.

 

PT

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thankyou seanamart for the quick reply set my mind at ease somewhat.....

ploddertom the council and bailiffs figures match up ....for now anyway .....but will write letters to the council and bailiffs pronto.

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  • 1 month later...

upate on this

wrote letters to council an ross an robbers ,council were investigating my case an told me to pay robbers, which i ignored a month goes by still no reply from council then robber turns up today with a letter which he sticks through the door wanting £130-00 van fee and setup a new arrangement which i shall ignore, phoned council and lady dealing with case is off till tuesday so they have put on hold till then. my question is what to do now ? carry on paying the council ? the amount owed is now £426 down from £2300, not sure what to do now advice please as robber is threatening to take the car plus the other stuf which he says he can.help?

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In my opinion:

 

He CAN levy on the sofa / table and chairs so long as there are adequate seating left for the occupants of your house.

 

NOTE: NO ONE can lawfully sell a sofa without it's fire safety label attached. It's a criminal offence. Has your label mysteriously disappeared? Sometimes that happens. The label goblin i believe.

 

He can levy on the TV's.

 

He can levy on the fridge, unless it is your only one.

 

 

Regarding the same items on two WPO's. The whole debt should be on one WPO and one set of fees if collected at the same time. The second WPO and its associated fees are invalid, because they have in effect levied on their own goods!!! not yours.

 

While any part of the levy remains legitimate, i'm afraid the "van fee" associated with it will stand.

 

The only way out of the levy and van fee, is the hope that the items could not realistically cover the removal, storage & auction fees and still pay part of the debt. This hope has probably disappeared with the levy on your car. Unless it is virtually worthless.

 

If you cannot clear the balance, then the only course of action open to you is to move the car a LONG way away, and do not let them back in regardless of threats until the balance is cleared.

 

Note: I'm not advising you illegally remove the levied goods (the car), i'm just suggesting you continue to use it, as you are entitled to do - just a LONG way away.

 

They can't apply a second van fee unless succeed in removing goods.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi guys an girls just an update on this and some more advice needed ...... today the ross and robber came back citing that the council had told them that the account was no longer on hold and he was here to take stuff levied unless i paid £230 to clear one account and we will make an arrangement for the outstanding £310-00

my wife wouldn't let him in as you guys had advised she phoned me and the nice man wanted to speak with me saying he could just walk in and take our stuff i told him no way was he coming in an he started saying locksmith ,police blah blah so i told him to go get em he gave me a load of abuse saying i got stuff off the internet from idiots ..... calling caggers idiots.....thats rich. and refused to let me speak or get a word in edgeways and gave the phone back to my missus with a letter asking for £110-00.

 

i phoned the council spoke to a nice man and he said the council never told them that this should be enforced the account was still on hold and phoned the robbers to tell them to leave the property immediately which by then he had ,only after telling my missus that it was illegal to move the car off the road and at a secret hideaway because the mot has run out and it is illegall to keep a non mot'd car on a public highway and he calls us idiots.

 

Anyway the council have demanded a reply to some queries i raised about their fees by tomorrow morning even though the council asked for this information on or around the 12th of january and still no reply from robbers ,makes you think they have something to hide eh?

anyway what i want to know is what to do next i owe £426 by my reckoning not £540 that robber says i do with another payment due on the 12th of this month of £280-00 direct to council . help please? plus he had the cheek to say i had a problem with bailiffs and i should pay my bills ... cheeky git.

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It would indeed appear that the Council have issues with your account and it may be best to stick with them in the short term ignoring the bailiff along the way. Have you got an up to date breakdown of your account from the Bailiffs? If not send them a letter similar to this:

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

Send it initially by email and pop a letter in the post in the morning.

 

PT

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thanks ploddertom

 

heres a breakdown of their charges relating to two accounts i have with them.

 

as of 25/01/11 from the horses mouth acc 1

 

original balance owed £714

robbers fees

£24.50 1st visit 01/09/10

£18 2nd visit 6/9/10

£46-00 levy fee 07/9/10

£12 walking possesion 07/9/10

amount paid £396

amount owed with charges i presume £814

outstanding £418 although they have levied for same items twice so maybe the lesser amount will be taken off ? unlawful levy?

 

acc 2

as of 25/01/11

balance owed £1644

added fees are

£70 levy fee 6/9/10

£12 walking possesion fee 6/9/10

£7-50 debit card fees for daring to pay by phone £1.50 a pop

since my first post on here on 8th january i have been paying council direct at a more affordable £280 a month instead of £394 they told me to pay.

since then the council have had 2 payments for jan/feb totalling £560 with another on the 12th but still i get agg. should i get a more upto date balance off the robbers or just check with council guys? many thanks for your help the guy was spitting feathers today.lol

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this is without the original set up fee of £183 when he levied we had to pay or he would take our stuff .

 

Don't understand. Was this just a payment or was it listed as a fee?

 

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Going back to Post 1 where you listed the goods levied on. I appreciate your wife let him in but whilst he was there did he go from room to room or did he ask her what goods of value you may have had? The reason for asking is that some of those items listed would be found in different areas of the home.

 

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the £183 my missus says he put as fees don't know whether it was levy fees or what they called it just fees he told her, might be an arrangement fee not sure tbh ..... also he sat in the front room and asked her items of value.never went upstairs, kitchen , or anywhere else.

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the £183 my missus says he put as fees don't know whether it was levy fees or what they called it just fees he told her, might be an arrangement fee not sure tbh no such thing.... also he sat in the front room and asked her items of value.never went upstairs, kitchen , or anywhere else.

 

With regard to the items levied which of them would he not have actually seen? The giveaway to this was the referral to 2 TVs - not often found in the same room - the fridge usually found in the kitchen but no reference to a microwave or similar. You also said a car - did he ever see this?

 

Going back to the £183 which was paid, is this accounted for in the £396 paid in Acc1?

 

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I noticed something in this thread that has occurred to me before.

 

Many of the levys posted on this site are made up entirely of furniture and old style CRT Tv's. I spent nearly 15 years in the furniture retail / manufacturing business and i can tell you that, as was made apparent in this thread, they do not want your second hand furniture. It isn't worth carrying to the van. We used to take away peoples old tables, chairs and beds, and i can tell you we couldn't give them away. I used to chop up decent solid oak tables for firewood because they were the 'wrong color' or 'wrong style' for so called poor people to take for free!

 

Same goes for old CRT Tvs. I've got a spare 28" CRT JVC flat screen clogging up part of our workshop that no one wants. Not even for free!

 

Do you know why it's there? Because someone else gave me a superior Sony 28" instead of driving it to the local tip!

 

What i'm trying to say is, call their bluff. They will either:

 

a) Decide not to invest in a locksmith to remove worthless goods

 

or

 

b) Remove them out of spite, or to hold for ransom.I know places who will sell you an modern Oak table and chairs for the £400 monthly payment this joker wanted. Then a matching sideboard in month two.

 

So ask what day they are coming, and dump the stuff on the doorstep. Give them **** all, then buy yourself some new shinny stuff with the money they were asking for.

 

Finally, how hilarious what he said about us......then threw a hissy fit and proved us right by walking off empty handed.

 

Do you think we are having an effect on their earnings folks?:lol:

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You have to remember that the Consumer Protection Act 1987 covers most second hand goods that are sold in the way of business and this include auction houses - it covers electrical safety & labelling of furniture and I think I'm right in saying it is actually unlawful to sell furnishings without the correct labels even if they have been cut off.

 

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PT said:

 

"it is actually unlawful to sell furnishings without the correct labels even if they have been cut off."

 

It certainly is illegal. We had a visit from trading standards. We had to obtain and keep flame retardant certification for foam / fabrics we used in manufacture.

He said if we applied the temporary or permanent 'fire tags' without being able to provide the evidence, it would be standard procedure to initiate a criminal prosecution.

 

It would not matter whether the fabric was retarded or not.

 

He specifically mentioned that to sell an item without the tag would incur summary conviction, and to retrospectively, incorrectly apply one was the most serious offense that would be 'pursued vigorously'.

 

He even went as far as saying that we should not remove the temporay tags (the big triangular card ones you see hanging off your sofa / chair on delivery). The customer must do it themselves!

 

Found this, makes it quite clear:

 

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:4Aj2IecuGhcJ:www.eastriding.gov.uk/corp-docs/tradingstandards/tsd415.pdf+Furniture+and+Furnishings+%28Fire+Safety%29+regulations+%28as+amended%29.+%22old+stock%22&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESh4wccG7hSHeJuqmQExUbE3cvF-rqsdjBM361dXc9L9aGJqrxq4BFUGl6jYWCWToInaH9bwhbW7HySAyjM5GXU1_GwHFWTyyRLZiCWlL0O4mpPxu0bKbZiGIjzXqaIHQ4YNkBiU&sig=AHIEtbRVQgIihOhxOsY8Tu5gw4-_Ph0mjQ

Edited by Thegreenpimpernel
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I have asked before but nobody seems to know - but legally speaking what would be the punishment, if a certified Bailiff went through all the hoops, got the correct permissions and actually did force entry to remove goods, to find the levied goods have "vanished" into hiding?

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I think technically you would have 'stolen' your own stuff off the bailiff.

 

Just suppose, as a theoretical concept only of course, that you or any other debtor under threat of removal, were to replace the goods (which of course have not been accurately detailed by make or serial No on the WPO) with items from say the local tip.

 

Mr Bailiff would have a rather unrewarding afternoon loading and unloading a van full of junk.

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.... also he sat in the front room and asked her items of value.never went upstairs, kitchen , or anywhere else.

 

I think there is a case of arguing that the Bailiff has made a "remote" levy, he will no doubt argue otherwise and if so should be put to strict proof as to which rooms the goods were contained in.

 

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update today .....got a phone call from council saying the account has been put on permanent hold....... going to make my payment next week as agreed direct to council .according to the robbers i owe £320 odd, council cant verify this till next week for some reason but will phone next week once i've done my checks on fees etc .... robbers seem to have had a hefty kick up the backside from council as a director from robbers had to phone back councill and subsequently all van fees totalling £240 walking possesion fee £12 and unlawful levy fee not sure which one £70 or £46 was wiped off probably the lower amount was wiped off account....... so mr bailiff who turned up yesterday spouting off and calling you all idiots probably isn't so smug today.

 

 

i would like to thank you all who posted and those who put templates and the like for your help in this matter very very much appreciated and it just goes to show that david can beat goliath. many thanks again gary.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Oh no not Ross & Robbers!!!

Ok the levy is unlawful as they cannot place items such as sofa and chairs on them and they know this full well, but they will tell you that if they come for possession of the levied goods they wont take them, bit pointless of the levy really. Ive argued with these people before about putting the same items on two separate levies and technically they cannot do this and they are well aware of this fact also. Once items have been levied they become the property of the authority so listing the same items on a second levy is levying on items that no longer belong to you so the levy is invalid. Two invalid levies no levy fee's.

Start paying the council via their online payment facility making sure you make two separate payments one for each debt with the correct account numbers on them. I would then write to the council stating that the bailiffs have unlawfully levied on items and you no longer wish to deal with them and that you are now going to pay the council direct. They will throw a hissy fit as will the bailiffs but as you are paying there is not much they can do. Only pay the bailiff his two visit fee's as thats all he is entitled too. For a bailiff to force entry they would have to have an order to do so and have to give you a time and date when this will happen, but as you are paying why would the council need to do this and seeming that they cannot take said items what will they be there collecting?

 

Hi,

 

This is my first post after a visit from Ross and Roberts on Monday morning 21st March.

I have council tax arrears of approx £1000.

The reason(s) for their visit was 1, I paid £20 instead of £40 as my first payment. (I have recently lost my job) and the other being my second payment was received a few days late, they insist I make a payment to arrive by the 20th of each month.

The agreement was/is that I pay £40 for the first two months then £20 a month.

 

What I want to know, is do they have the power to have a Locksmith enter my property? I was threatened with this during their visit, along with other threats.

The inventory on the walking possession order is a leather sofa, a table and basic cheap/old furniture. There is also my Car which I have had to sell due to unemployment. The tax had expired. The bailiff told me it was illegal to do this, as it was part of their walking possession order. What was I supposed to do? Leave the car untaxed in the road thus breaking the law? Besides, isn`t it illegal of them to take items used for work purposes? Does the same apply to furniture, sofa etc. ?

 

Any answers/help will be much appreciated.

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Hi it may pay you to start your own thread you will get more responses that way, i'm no expert, but i take it the bailiff gained entry to your property to levy on your items?

Secondly do you owe on just one council tax , how many levys did he do if like me he handed you two andlisted same items twice thats an unlawful levy.

Thirdly if your on benefits you may be classed as vulnerable status and must notify council immediately . But i'd start a new thread and the people who know what they are really talking about will help. How much do you really owe without r an rs scandalous charges i got over 300 quid of there charges wiped off my account by the council and they got a rap on the knuckles .

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Thanks Gary, will do.

I was working at the time, I agreed to a 'home visit,' the bailiff appeared friendly, he wrote down just one inventory.

He told me that I was to start monthly payments as soon as I got my payment card, the problem was, was that they didn`t send one out to me. I was told by the second bailiff that it was MY fault! and could have paid by other means. The original bailiff told me I could only pay by using the card...

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