DVLA - Failure to Notify Change of keeper Court Action

[WeAllNeedHelp]

I have posted on an existing thread but not sure if it would have been seen quickly:-(

 

I ve been reading on here for awhile about the DVLA and there Enforcement.

 

I have a FTN for a vehicle which i sold in July 2009 and the V5 was sent of the following day. For my records I took a copy of the logbook, just incase.

When I received the FTN notice I rang my enforcement office (Birmingham), quoted the Interpretation Act and the no Legal requirement to case but they weren't budging. I told them that this case was in dispute and set a date with the Manager of the Office. Stating that i would reply by that date.

So i then started to dig around, but didnt know what to do. My OH said just pay the £35 and forget about it, but I couldn't it kept niggling at me how WRONG it was for them to just take money from for something that wasn't in my control..

 

So after much delibration, I sent back the form, by recorded delivery stating that I was not the keeper of the vehicle on the date of the alleged offence because it had been sold to "xxxxx " on xxx and that I had sent the v5, via first class post, as required by law. (This was written in the notes sectionof the form)

They have duly come back to me, with a standard letter "ACKPRO" which states “After careful consideration, it has been decided that this case will be settled by prosecution and the case is now being prepared for court. You will receive a summons in due course."

 

DO i just wait for the summons now?

Does anyone have a good template letter ot send ?

Moozer had a succes with the preston office over FTN do any of the seasoned members think that it would be helpful to quote Moozers case should they decide to take it further as this would show that difference enforcement offices are not working to the same process?

Your help is really appreciated

Regards

W

[rebel11]

Hi We

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will advise as soon as they are available.

[zoomboy]

They seem very quick off the mark with you. That was after you sent back their form stating you were no longer the owner right? Then they just go straight to court process! I've had 3 or 4 rounds of communication only threatening court action so far. Now I'm at the point of saying put up, or shut up.

 

In a way I'm looking forward to my day in court. At least that way this can finally be over and a decision made one way or another.

[WeAllNeedHelp]

Zoom

To be honest i didnt send any letters i just filled the form in with the new keepers details, because on the alleged date of offence the correct owner wasnt me. I sent in a copy of the logbook to demonstrate to them. Which clearly showed both mine and the new keepers signature the date.

I havent recieved the summons yet just a letter from Mrs P that says they have decided to prosecute and that i will recieve a summons in due course, (recieved 05.01.11)

The FTN came in september.

SO do you think I should send a letter whilst waiting for the summons or should i just compile one in readiness???

[zoomboy]

I would think that responding in writing as soon as would be your best recourse. Before they get to court they have to demonstrate they and you have exhausted reasonable means to resolve the issue. Your lack of response thus far, even though you may not have received any correspondance may go in their favour. So for you to state you have not received and prior correspondance and then try to give your side of the argument would then be something that stands in your favour.

 

But then... it's worth noting I'm no expert. Just a pleb in a similar situation.

[WeAllNeedHelp]

Thanks

 

What letter did you start with ?

HOw many did you send ?

What was the last letter that you sent which made them drop the case ?

 

Sorry for all the questions but you know what they are like

[Raykay]

I would think that responding in writing as soon as would be your best recourse. Before they get to court they have to demonstrate they and you have exhausted reasonable means to resolve the issue.

 

The OP has already sent a letter explaining their position - another one may help. Their case is different to yours as Failure to Notify is a criminal offence and the summons will be to the Magistrates Court, your case is the Late Licensing Penalty and can end up in County Court where they would expect attempts to be made to resolve the matter.

 

The defence is the same though, the Interpretration Act and the fact that their rule about an acknowledgment letter has no legal backing.

[zoomboy]

Thanks

 

What letter did you start with ?

HOw many did you send ?

What was the last letter that you sent which made them drop the case ?

 

Sorry for all the questions but you know what they are like

 

Oh, they haven't dropped the case. They rejected all of my arguments and complaints and I'm now expecting a court date.

 

I have a thread on here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?279729-Continuous-Licensing-Malarky

 

I've pushed it through my MP to the CX of the DVLA and Minister of Transport and the PHSO and still they insist they will pursue me for the penalty.

[WeAllNeedHelp]

Sorry Zoomboy, I got you confused with Moozer

[moozer]

I have posted on an existing thread but not sure if it would have been seen quickly:-(

 

I ve been reading on here for awhile about the DVLA and there Enforcement.

 

I have a FTN for a vehicle which i sold in July 2009 and the V5 was sent of the following day. For my records I took a copy of the logbook, just incase.

When I received the FTN notice I rang my enforcement office (Birmingham), quoted the Interpretation Act and the no Legal requirement to case but they weren't budging. I told them that this case was in dispute and set a date with the Manager of the Office. Stating that i would reply by that date.

So i then started to dig around, but didnt know what to do. My OH said just pay the £35 and forget about it, but I couldn't it kept niggling at me how WRONG it was for them to just take money from for something that wasn't in my control..

 

So after much delibration, I sent back the form, by recorded delivery stating that I was not the keeper of the vehicle on the date of the alleged offence because it had been sold to "xxxxx " on xxx and that I had sent the v5, via first class post, as required by law. (This was written in the notes sectionof the form)

They have duly come back to me, with a standard letter "ACKPRO" which states “After careful consideration, it has been decided that this case will be settled by prosecution and the case is now being prepared for court. You will receive a summons in due course."

 

DO i just wait for the summons now?

Does anyone have a good template letter ot send ?

Moozer had a succes with the preston office over FTN do any of the seasoned members think that it would be helpful to quote Moozers case should they decide to take it further as this would show that difference enforcement offices are not working to the same process?

Your help is really appreciated

Regards

W

 

Hi W,

 

By all means use the letter that I used but adapt it for your own purpose as I do not give consent to quote my case. I did attach the suggested addition from Zoomboy. This was the ONLY letter I sent.

 

I would advise that you avoid citing any "acts" as this may be regarded as aggressive and presumptuous. Keep it simple, be emotive (how your dealings with the Birmingham AND Preston offices left you feeling hurt, for example) and extremely polite. Any attempts to cite the Interpretation Act would only fuel a stubborn response from the prosecutor.

 

When you have drafted your letter, post it here so we can offer any further suggestions for improvement (if necessary).

 

Keep us posted.

 

Kind regards,

 

Moozer

Edited January 13, 2011 by moozer
added info

[moozer]

Sorry - just realised that you have only had dealings with the Birmingham office. My bad. I misread your post!!

[WeAllNeedHelp]

** Update **

Sent Snoops letter, obviously with my details etc on. I sent it by recorded delivery last week. Delivered and signed for at DVLA LO Birmingam on 23.02.11 at 08:53.

 

My plea was that of "Not Guilty" and i also asked for their "witness" to attend rather than his statement be read out in court.

Court date is 03.03.11. its now 28.02.11, my question is "Do i call to make sure they've read it and give them the opportunity to respond. Or do i sit it out and wait for the court appointment. ???? "

 

Is it too late for them to send a letter out to me ? Do i call them ?

 

regards

 

W

[patdavies]

Do NOT call them.

 

Anything now must be in writing. If you hear nothing, go to the court on the summons date and use your (unbeatable) defence - the Interpretation Act

[WeAllNeedHelp]

** Update **

Sent Snoops letter, obviously with my details etc on. I sent it by recorded delivery last week. Delivered and signed for at DVLA LO Birmingam on 23.02.11 at 08:53.

 

My plea was that of "Not Guilty" and i also asked for their "witness" to attend rather than his statement be read out in court.

Court date is 03.03.11. its now 28.02.11, my question is "Do i call to make sure they've read it and give them the opportunity to respond. Or do i sit it out and wait for the court appointment. ???? "

 

Is it too late for them to send a letter out to me ? Do i call them ?

 

regards

 

W

 

Cant remember if I signed the letter, will that be a problem?

I did sign the not guilty plea

[WeAllNeedHelp]

Well, Off to court tommorrow. Hopefully i will come back with good news.

Does anyone know of people who have lost ref Failure to notify ??

[zoomboy]

Good luck

[WeAllNeedHelp]

Thanks zoomboy.

 

Well I've been to court today, the case has been adjourned for a trial. 5th may.

 

Some one did try to say that they had posted there v5 by first class post and it could have got lost. He said that he had previously sold cars and sent documents and had no problems. Magistrates found him guilty on the grounds that because he had previously brought and sold a few vehicles that he should have known to chase the acknowledgement.

[WeAllNeedHelp]

What I found quite disturbing is the fact that the prosecutor told the clerk and magistrates that " the onus falls to the registered keeper to make sure the records have been changed and to chase the acknowledgement letter"

Correct me if I'm wrong but is she lying ?

[patdavies]

She is definitely mistaken, but a Magistrates' Court is a court of fact, not a court of law.

 

Finer legal points are beyond the competency's of lay magistrates and are better dealt with by Judges at Appeal Court

[WeAllNeedHelp]

So Can her statement be brought into question ? And it pointed out to the mags, that there is no such onus ? It is a key point in the interpretation act defence that onus is not on the RK.

[patdavies]

Yes, her advice can be questioned and provides grounds for the appeal.

 

Forget the interpretation Act for the moment, the Magistrates have made their decision based on advice that the 28 day 'checking' requirement is law rather than fantasy by the DVLA

[WeAllNeedHelp]

Yes, her advice can be questioned and provides grounds for the appeal.

 

Forget the interpretation Act for the moment, the Magistrates have made their decision based on advice that the 28 day 'checking' requirement is law rather than fantasy by the DVLA

 

 

Sorry Pat ,

My case has been adjourned til May, the case above that i'm talking about, is one that i sat in on, to listen to the argument / defence provided by the prosecutor.

 

I'm trying to prepare for my case and want to make sure that I cover off all the things that i need to in court and may even decide to write a statement to read in court that covers all of the items that need to be covered.

I know that the prosecutor quotes the section of the act that says "failed to notify SoS forwith" that is an act but i get the destinct feeling that because the Mags is a court of fact that they will find me guilty because i did not follow the "acknowledgemt letter process" even though its not law....

Edited March 12, 2011 by WeAllNeedHelp
spelling

[WeAllNeedHelp]

Not guilty ma lord.. What a sham ! 2 days in court, lost earnings, £200 , research into the defence 9 hours @ £10 per hour, £90. Not able to claim these costs back . All the stress, lack of sleep and trouble for the sake of £35 ... Well at least justice was served and I was proven NOT GUILTY !! The only true defense needed was the interpretation act section 7.

I did have a copy of the v5 that I sent to Dvla.Which may have helped with the magistrates but the clerk pointed out that IA was the a defence.

I did originally quote IA , send copy of the logbook to the prosecutor in the first instance . But she still took it to court . I do think that she was just wasting my time !

I did at one point want to jack it in but I wouldn't standby and let a stranger take money out of my wallet and just do nothing. Thats what kept me going.

I sat in on all of the cases before mine so that I knew what to expect...which was very useful .

 

Thanx to everyone for their help, support and advice..

 

[The One and Only]

It pains me to say I just got off the phone having paid the £40. I can't spare the time to deal with it right now, I'm moving house and the our baby's due next month.

[Dragons Dennis]

And that is exactly what DVLA love. Anyone who can't or won't fight them. Kerr-Ching Thank you very much. NEXT......