Halifax card CCA return and Recontituted agreements

[Guest jsa12]

at least they have been honest in admitting they dont have an agreement,here i waited eight months and received one that was nothing like the original.

 

you cannot rely on archived terms',these can vary greatly in design and content and some are finding it hard to match accurately and anyone who does try this and take risks' is leaving themselves open and "their clients" to adverse problems'.

 

this is why its so surprising that the waksman ruling allowed this to possibly happen.

 

'Honest and accurate'

Judge Waksman did point out that the banks could not simply invent the loan agreement retrospectively to comply with the law.

 

It must - of necessity - be based upon records held as to the debtor and the agreement he made," the judge said.

 

in all respect he may have considered the banks to have more accurate system in place then what there currently appears to be.this really is failure to hold a correct statement of an account.

[basa48]

.............

this is why its so surprising that the waksman ruling allowed this to possibly happen.

 

'Honest and accurate'

Judge Waksman did point out that the banks could not simply invent the loan agreement retrospectively to comply with the law.

 

It must - of necessity - be based upon records held as to the debtor and the agreement he made," the judge said.

 

in all respect he may have considered the banks to have more accurate system in place then what there currently appears to be.this really is failure to hold a correct statement of an account.

 

It means now that as far as unenforceability is concerned s77/78 is a non starter.

 

I don't think it was a great loss though as I could see that a large number of agreements could take longer than 14 days to dig out of an archive, during which time the debtor felt confident to stop paying and sue. The CMCs have a lot to answer for in this respect and have spoiled it for many with their speculative claims.

[rusty22]

thanks for all the responses, I hoped that this was the case, because i wanted to negotiate a settlement, and their idea of a settlement is to knock a thousand pounds off the debt, which i cant afford, if i could afford that then i could pay the whole debt which seems totally unrealistic, but hopefully this will work to my advantage.

[Sand-Dancer0191]

Sorry for the reply basa48 but I had to point it out...They can simply confirm you had an agreement by producing payment records/statements etc.etc

[Sand-Dancer0191]

try this link to a post from PT2537

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?173201

 

This may be what you need

[basa48]

Sorry for the reply basa48 but I had to point it out...They can simply confirm you had an agreement by producing payment records/statements etc.etc

 

Nice try Sand-Dancer, but I have never denied a financial relationship or that I borrowed money. But that does not mean there was an agreement let alone a properly executed one.

 

There are many, many instances where lenders have issued credit without compliant agreements in place. Some lenders were so keen to get people on the treadmill they issued cards on the strength of non compliant application forms.

 

Mine is one such case. I never did sign an agreement - that is the truth. In truth I never even signed an application.

[basa48]

try this link to a post from PT2537

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?173201

 

This may be what you need

 

If that was for my benefit - I thank you. But I do not need disclosure. The lender has written two letters stating they have no signed agreement, a defence statement saying I didn't sign an agreement and another letter admitting the debt is unenforceable and they are not pursuing payment.

 

Don't forget I am suing them for something else.

[diddydicky]

Will the brunt of the matter here rearly is do you pay them or not

A default will be already on your credit file, so you credit rating is already shot.

 

If you want to start making the token payment again, then only do so on YOUR terms at an amount YOU can afford.

Pay it only to Halifax on the condition they continue to suspend interest and charges.

 

The other option (posted previously) is pay them nothing.

They have said there is no signed agreement, so court involment is very unlikely, although they will tell you otherwise, they will tell you anything to get payment.

 

But be prepared for an onslaught of letters and phone calls if you choose to go down this route.

Once again Don't discuss anything on the phone with them, if they ring refuse to answer their stupid security questions, tell them in writing only and put the phone down, do this everytime they ring, they will soon get the drift.

 

Get everything in writing then you will have a paper trail of anything they agree or disagree to.

 

One final thing I will mention is that if you bank with Halifax or HBOS, I would get another account open sharpish, as they will and do (quite legally and without asking) clear your account out under the 'right to offset' rule and offset the funds towards the outstanding debt.

 

as will nationwide

[Guest jsa12]

Sorry for the reply basa48 but I had to point it out...They can simply confirm you had an agreement by producing payment records/statements etc.etc

 

you are a wise person,its been mentioned before.this is why it underlines the utmost preparation.

 

as we have seen on the forum those that have been unprepared for every eventuality have come unstuck,the warnings are in this thread.despite the posts what has to be remembered there is often very little argument that the money is actually owed.

 

the opponent always deserves the utmost respect,you do not know what you are up against until the day,someone whose profession it is to sound good and ultimately persuasive given the seeming odds',does this near day to day in front of a judge while the defendant may never have been in front of a judge/court in their lives,ill preparation,poorly presented defense could all to easily be argued out if not careful given the situation. it could be that someone is unsure how to place their argument effectively/unsure how to respond /nerves can strike,the fact is tough are ultimately right could mean totally nothing if the judge is on side.

 

someone who is taking on the banking system despite being right needs to be fully aware that they are taking on the economic institutions of this country,despite what we say or think they immediately have this advantage over the individual,the judge will have this on his/her mind.after all we are the ones that are now paying for this right or wrong.

Edited January 11, 2011 by jsa12
update.

[Sand-Dancer0191]

I agree jsa12...as proved by the fsa and bank charges / manchester cases etc.etc.

[Sand-Dancer0191]

""Don't forget I am suing them for something else.""....I did

Thought you were in the same boat as rusty22.s post....to which my comments were mainly aimed at.

[Guest jsa12]

I was in a similar situation with Barclays were they stated "they don't need the agreement and furthermore didn't have it". Trading Standards pulled them up over this as the card was taken out pre April 2007 and a " True Signed Copy" was required if they took me to court. Barclays backed down and wiped the debt out, although TS still passed ALL details through to the Home Authorities as a valid complaint.

 

Regards

PB68.

 

i have just been to see the debt adviser at the local council offices and she more or less took this view,i showed her the agreement the first words were

 

"this is not an agreement"

 

she was very helpful her main role is to attend court to help people stay in their homes',and as such unsecured creditors are not a priority.but she did say she will write to them and request the signed agreement,i turned and said i dont think there is one by the look of it,she will refer me to a solicitor to go through the details as well as write to each creditor.

[diddydicky]

i have a tape recording of a mercers employee telling me that there is no signed agreement and that "what happens is"...... that i make the application - the card is sent to me and i sign the card.......and when i use the card for the first time- that executes the agreement

 

i was so gobsmacked i got her to repeat it!!

 

strangley barclaycard dont seem to keen to do anything other than play pass the debt around the DCA community- cant imagine why

[rusty22]

heres another question for you, is there any place that i can find out how many cases against the halifax for non signature, or incorrect agreements that have gone against the halifax, does anybody hold that sort of info.

[Sand-Dancer0191]

Don't know that ........but would be interested if anyone else has that info

[Undercover-Elsa]

I'm not aware of a specific list as such.

However the "word on the street" is that there's a couple of good cases, albeit not specifically Halifax, in the debtors favour due to be made public soon.

Don't have any more info at the moment.

 

Elsa x

[Sand-Dancer0191]

would be very interested in that info when its available

[rusty22]

thats encouraging, please post it here when you have it. thanks