Roxburghe/Graham White Legal Threats on behalf of Nationwide

[shady637]

Back story: Last year I got a debit card with HSBC so stopped using my nationwide cash card account but forgot to cancel the direct debit for the TV license.

 

(I was in the middle of moving between 4 different addresses at the time and was not always getting my post, so was not alerted to what was going on with the account through bank statements.)

 

Anyway, I randomly checked online banking for nationwide account one day to see that I was being charged unplanned overdraft fees. I cancelled the TV license direct debit.

 

Recently started receiving letters from nationwide asking me to pay the £254.62 owing on the account. Just kinda put it to the back of my mind as am very preoccupied.

 

Then started getting snotty letters from Roxburghe debt collectors demanding payment. The last letter I received from them dated 16th Dec 2010:

 

"72 HOUR NOTICE

 

Your file is being reviewed to decide the best course of action to take, which may be either court action or a personal visit by one of my field officers.

 

In addition, I am obliged to inform you that you are now on a 72 hour notice, and therefore you will only have yourself to blame if you fail to deal with this matter prior to the expiry of this time.

 

The way you have treated this account is totally unacceptable and non-compliance after legal proceedings have commenced may require you to attend court to answer questions about your lifestyle.

 

Without any doubt whatsoever we can prove to the court that we have made every effort to resolve this unpaid debt and I strongly suggest you contact me without further delay;

 

Please note that in the absence of payment or any valid dispute we will pursue this matter - with or without your cooperation"

 

I ignored it as I don't see why I should pay such a huge amount when it's all bank charges, plus I have no money!

 

Next letter is from GRAHAM WHITE SOLICITORS:

 

"LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Our instructions put simply, are to obtain payment from you. It may benefit you to seek independant legal advice in realtion to the following questions

 

-Will my chances of obtaining credit be affected for the next 6 years?

-Can I be made bankrupt?

-What items could a Bailiff remove and sell?

-What additional costs and statutory interest could I be liable for?

 

Recent changes in the law mean that both parties MUST attempt to resolve disputed debts. By refusing to speak to us we can prove to the court that you are failing in your duty to do so.

 

You are required to make payment to this office immediately.

 

To avoid further action contact us without delay."

 

I have some questions if anybody out there could be kind enough to help me:

 

-What do you suggest I do?!

-What "further action will be taken if I do not contact the solicitors?

-I'm happy to pay back the £30 odd that was taken to pay the direct debit but not the ridiculous charges, should I dispute this with Nationwide?

-These people are calling me at least 5 times a day, I reject their calls now, can I ask to be contacted only by writing?

-To clarify, I've never spoken to either companies by phone or letter.

 

I'd really appreciate some advice. I'm 27 weeks pregnant, in the middle of a degree and have a 3 yr old, I don't want this stress any more, these people seem so unreasonable.

[sillygirl1]

Firstly Roxburghe are connected with HFO and Turbull Rutherford, if they are collecting on a bank account you simply send them a CCA letter, requesting a copy of the original contract.

 

They CANNOT send round somebody to demand money from you, arrest your wages or other threats WITHOUT first getting a CCJ, and they are very easily defended.

 

Also I think your title needs changeing to Roxburghe/HSBC v - username when you will get more help.

[sillygirl1]

Those letters MUST be reported to the Office of Fair Trading and Trading Standards, they are well out of order and breach lots of guidelines in debt collecting.

 

Theirs is the disgraceful behaviour, not yours.

 

Also as you are pregnant and have a small child you are classed as vulnerable and should also get some help from your local CAB office on dealing with these morons.

[shady637]

Thanks so much for the reply. Will change thread title in a min.

 

So should I just ignore the solicitors letter and just send the CCA request directly to Roxburghe then hang around for a response?

[sillygirl1]

Send the CCA request to Graham White, remind them that they would need the original agreement anyway as part of the court documentation.

 

They are 'solicitors for rent' who send out threatening letters - don't forget to complain as those letters are way out of line, they know that bailiffs cannot visit you without you first breaching a court order and a visit to court to examine your lifestyle is unlikely as well.

[shady637]

OK, thanks so much!

 

I can't work out how to change the thread title.

 

Don't worry, will look into complaints procedure now while I have half an hour free!

 

I don't have any savings, am a student (unemployed) and don't own any property, I'm guessing the worst they could do is take me to court?

[DonkeyB]

“Recent changes to the law”?

 

Graham White is talking utter b****cks. As usual. Report to OFT – this is not representing the true legal situation.

 

Why a reputable building society like Nationwide gets involved with charlatans like Roxburghe I do not know. Maybe they need telling what they are dealing with.

[sillygirl1]

They can't make you bankrupt for the amount they claim you owe, that starts from £750 and costs them to make you bankrupt, again another very empty threat.

 

Just as well you found out about CAG before trying to come to an agreement with these sharks.

[Bazooka Boo]

Shame that just rang Graham & co to ask what changes and to which Law? Unfortunately they are closed, so I might ring them tomorrow when they're open and find out!

For the letter he foolishly sent out, telling you that you should seek legal advice and pose those questions;

-Can I be made bankrupt?

-What items could a Bailiff remove and sell?

Send a copy to the OFT&TS via http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/contact

AND make a formal complaint about that deluded firm to http://www.legalombudsman.org.uk/

[DonkeyB]

I think you’ll find Mr White is never in. You’ll just get put through to a Roxburghe threat monkey who has used his letterhead to churn out more threatograms. Should be a fun call tho – please record it!

[Bazooka Boo]

Truecall!!!

[pookeymonkey]

I had a similar situation with Nationwide.

 

I was told that my overdraft limit had been increased then a week later when it clearly hadn't I phoned up only to be told that they had decided not to raise the limit. As a result 2 Direct Debits were returned as it was too late to cancel them and Nationwide started adding charges (£375) to the account. I told Nationwide that I was not prepared to pay the charges as they had misled me and they refused to back down, I told them to get stuffed and that I would not talk to them again until they refunded the charges.

 

Over 2 years went by with the account being passed to Fredrickson International who threatened to unleash Bryan Carter Solicitors:lol: .

 

Eventually after many threats I got a letter from Mr Carter telling me that a Court Claim had been issued and would be with me in 48 hours. A week went by and no Claim so I called Bryan Carter and asked about the Claim, after a lot of trying to make me pay they eventually gave me a claim reference number. I then phoned the Court who could find no reference of this number and even did a postcode check for me - no claim!!!

 

I then went into overdrive phoning Carters and Fredricksons several times demanding an explanation each time I got none so I then kept phoning to tell them what a bunch of liars they were.

 

Then it suddenly hit me - why not phone Nationwide? After being passed around a bit I got through to someone who could deal with me, so I told them the full story and the fact that they owned the alleged debt so therefore they must be implicated in making up false the Court Claim number. Low and behold about an hour later I get a call from Nationwide telling me that the account had been taken away from Fredricksons/Carters and that I was to deal with Nationwide from now on. I then decided to make an offer as a full and final settlement - No charges and I would pay them half of the balance of the overdraft at the date that they told me that the limit had been raised.

 

These Companies really need to look at themselves, had they admitted the mistake at the time and refunded the charges I would have carried on and the overdraft would have been paid in full by now. But due to their appalling service they have now not only lost the money from their charges but several hundreds of pounds that they could have had back!!

 

The moral of this is - if you get treated badly by Nationwide and they set a DCA and 'solicitor' on you don't be afraid to use the DCA/'solicitors' bad practices and mistakes to turn the situation to your advantage. If this debt is still owned by Nationwide, then Nationwide has to be the Claimant on the Court Claim Form, therefore any action by a 'solicitor' allegedly acting for Nationwide must have come from Nationwide. So Nationwide should be told that they will be named in any complaint against their agents.

 

Pookey

[coledog]

Rox threatened to 'send someone round' to me in 2004, I am still waiting. The letters show that they have been taking lessons from the HFO 'legal school'.

 

Send CCA request and letter of complaint to Graham White plus complaints to others mentioned - let us know if you need the links for this. I would also complain to the Solicitors Regulatory Authority as this mob are pretending to be solicitors.

 

I will ask the site team to change the thread title (but they may have to censor my suggestion)

 

Don't stress - these are idiots.

[shady637]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Have been swallowing as much info as possible from this forum and others.

 

From what I can gather, the whole CCA requesting process doesn't apply to bank charges, I'm now not sure whether I can send a CCA request. Anyone know?

[coledog]

Actually, you could be correct there. I would suggest a letter of complaint to Graham White and request that they send the account back to Nationwide and that you can deal then with them directly? You can then write to Nationwide with a complaint about the behaviour of their DCA, there is an OFT guideline about OCs being responsible for the behaviour of their debt collectors.

 

It will be better to deal with Nationwide directly to challenge their charges etc and try and reach and agreement with them.

[coledog]

This is the info regarding a creditors responsibility regarding a third party employed by them to chase a debt. I would write to Nationwide with copies of the correspondence from the Surrey muppets and point out their misleading and threatening behaviour. Suggest to Nationwide that you will agree a mutual settlement of any outstanding amount with them, devoid of any additional fees and charges and on your terms of repayment.

 

I have added a link to the full guidance below.

 

 

 

Creditor responsibility for third parties

 

1.9 If consumer credit licence holders choose to do business or continue to do business with third parties engaged in questionable fitness behaviour, then their own fitness will be called into question. Our aim is to ensure that creditors do not ignore the unfair practices of debt collectors, whether in-house or external, acting on their behalf. It is not for the OFT to specify in this guidance how choices about third party selection are made nor to advise on desired conduct between third parties. However, during any investigation in this respect, we would expect to see

 

that care had been taken in the selection process, complaints had been investigated and that firm action had been taken as appropriate. It would be unlikely that we would take action against a creditor who could demonstrate such action had been taken.

 

 

 

 

Link

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ction-guidance

[shady637]

Thanks Coledog, have just sorted out all paperwork, will write the letter to Nationwide tomorrow and possibly post it up in case anybody wants to look it over for me .

 

Out of interest, what kind of figure would you say I should be looking to pay back, realistically. The debt they're chasing me for totals £254.62?

[coledog]

Well, I would be looking at the original failed payment amount and challenging any charges applied on the basis that you had problems at the time and were unable to recitify the situation. Bank charges are a tricky area but considering the harassment you are experiencing at present, through this, and the grounds that you have to pursue official complaints (and possibly seek compensation) I would suggest to them that they negotiate a reasonable settlement. You could consider mentioning a complaint to FOS.

[Bazooka Boo]

Well having just spoken to them, after remembering I was going to!

They do not know what part of the law that has 'apparently' changed, BUT, it will come under "financial"? AND apparently IT IS a LEGAL offence to avoid your debts?

Anyone like to comment?

[DonkeyB]

No! Pointless – as usual!

[Bazooka Boo]

She didn't sound very impressed, so much so when I laughed at her statement, she hung up!!

[DonkeyB]

This, of course, is the same Graham White solicitor, aka Michael Sobell, who also works for Hackney Council and has won an award in Private Eye for Lawyer of the Year in Rotten Boroughs:

 

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.php?section_link=rotten_boroughs&

 

You’ll have to scroll down a bit... my, what an accolade!

[Bazooka Boo]

Pah, that is V. interesting!

[DonkeyB]

Given that Michael Sobell was admitted as a solicitor in March 1962 – nearly 49 years ago! – he must be well past retirement age!

[shady637]

Just a quick update, I sent the letter of complaint to Nationwide regarding the behavior of their DCA and also Graham White. They have replied to say they're looking into it and will issue a response by 16th Feb, so I guess it's a waiting game until then.

 

Roxburgh also replied to the complaint, saying the same as Nationwide. Not a word from Graham White as yet. Will update when I get their response, hopefully next week!