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Bereavement - What to do?


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Hi All,

 

Didn't really know where to stick this one, so just put it in here. If there is a more suitable sub-forum, could a kind mod move it for me.

 

Unfortunately, on the 23rd Dec' my son, aged 20, unexpectedly passed away. Of course, this was and still is a huge shock to us all.

 

There is obviously alot to sort out and I need some advice as regards some credit that he had.

 

Being so young he did not have any insurances etc. for this eventuality, and his estate amounts to a small amount of savings of around £900. He had a credit card with a small balance of about £140, a loan through Barclays for a home learning course, which he has paid of at least half of the original £1800. We don't think he had any overdrafts, but I know he said he had around 4 bank accounts recently.

 

Due to the time of year and a delay with the coroner, we don't have a death certificate yet and it is possible that there may even be an inquest, which will delay things further. We went to see his bank, but of course they were not prepared to freeze anything until they had the certificate, although the chap did say that where there are insufficient funds in an estate then it is likely that the debts will be written off (he wasn't behind with any payments).

 

The other thing is that a few weeks before this happened, he had purchased a 3D TV for his room (about £1500.) on 9 months interest free credit from Comet, he also took their all singing and dancing insurance with it, but I don't know if there would be any death benefit with that.

 

I suppose what I would like to know is:

 

What is likely to happen as regards the TV? (I think his mum would like to keep it)

 

Will what small estate he has, be eaten up by his creditors or as it is not sufficient to pay all of it, will the debts be written off and the estate can be used to help pay for funeral expenses?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

MC

The villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

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MC

 

You have my sincere condolences - I am so sorry, what a dreadful thing to happen.

 

I believe that if you pay a solicitor a small fee you can get the authority to handle the estate and this should be all the bank needs. Debts should be written off if there is no estate to cover them.

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Firstly I offer my condolences to you and your family MC

 

I found another thread re this matter and it contained this link ..

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/moneytaxandbenefits/managingdebt/debtsandarrears/dg_10013093

 

I hope you might gain some info from it but I think that other caggers will have had experience with this situation in the past or at least will know how to point you in the right direction

 

Regards

 

R

(Thread info just in case . . http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?262236-Help-please-Debt-from-an-estate-due-to-bereavement&p=2960236&viewfull=1 )

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] I asked them to wait whilst I got my Bank card :violin:

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Information that may help if a CCA request is refused due to the lack of a signature . . http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?248863-Signature-demands-fight-back-possible-!&highlight=

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I also offer my sincere condolences in your tragic loss at such a time of year.

 

You can also register your son on the bereavement register which will stop direct mail being sent to him,

http://www.thebereavementregister.org.uk/

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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MC, as above, my sincere condolences, unfortunately, I unexpected lost a daughter at the age of 24 so can empathise with your feelings at present.

 

The main think for you to concentrate on at this time is making sure that all is as well as it can be with regard to your immediate family and with the arrangements for your son. Plenty of time to deal with creditors etc.

 

What I did was to write a 'template' letter and print of several copies. As mail, or other contact is attempted for your son, fill in the relevant details and send as a reply.

 

Something along the lines of.

 

Dear xxxx

 

It is with regret that I have to inform you of the death of xxxxxxxxxx . I am xxxxxx's father and will, in the fullness of time be an executor of his estate. As soon as the relevant paperwork is available (Death Certificate etc.) you will be sent a copy. If you require an original copy then this will be available from the Coroners' office upon payment of the usual fee.

 

In the meantime, it would be very helpful if you could advise me the terms of any insurance taken by my late son on any credit taken with your company.

 

Yours etc.

 

Luckily my daughter left a Will as she had a small baby, but I did manage her affairs without having to go to the expense of a Solicitor. There is some helpful advice on the threads posted as above.

 

Take time to grieve for your son, it is admirable that you are taking immediate responsibility for his affairs, but these really can wait until you have a clearer frame of mind.

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Just a quick note to point out that death certificates are issued by, Registrars rather than Coroners.

 

I have long advocated telling organisations that demand certified copies of death certificates that they can obtain same from the Registrar, but it's meaningless unless the Register Office involved is mentioned.

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Thanks to all for your thoughts and great advice. Sorry I have taken a while getting back, just juggling a billion things at the moment and time is short.

 

I really appreciate all of your help, thank you.

 

MC

The villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

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Hi Master Chief,

I am so so sorry to hear of your loss, I do feel for you.

As your son's affairs are reasonable straightforward, there shouldn't be any need to involve a solicitor. As the estate is under £5000 if you are next of kin and there's no will naming an Executor you should automatically be entitled to administer the estate without needing to use a Solicitor or apply for Letters of Administration.

The funeral expenses are the priority debt, followed by Income Tax, Council Tax and other Government debts, then secured debts. Once the available funds are used up, the creditors will have to write the rest off.

Re the television, as it's a Hire Purchase agreement they may well demand the return of the goods, but you could possibly negotiate to take on the payments yourselves. However as already said, you need to find the insurance document, as it should cover death.

 

I know from my own experience how hard it is to concentrate on these mundane matters at a time like this, but it can also help in a small way, as it's far better to keep occupied.

 

Again, my heartfelt sympathies,

 

Elsa xxx

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Sorry Elsa, I thought that you could get a letter of administration or something (which you need to pay a solicitor a small fee to authorise/witness) - this is what you need for the bank. I am probably wrong but seem to remember this.

 

The Comet agreement sounds like a credit agreement rather than HP but I suspect the insurance is something totally seperate. Comet should provide a copy.

 

MC come back if you need more support and tell any 'vultures' to foxtrot

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Hi Coledog,

No probs..it depends on the amount of the estate, if it's under £5000 you don't necessarily have to. If you do need to you can apply directly to the Court for Probate or Grant of Letters of Administration.

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/pa2_e.pdf

 

It's adviseable to check with the bank holding the funds whether they will release the funds to the next of kin on production of the Death Certificate and proof of ID as next of kin, but they're usually OK for small amounts. Usually each bank will have details in their general T&C's online as to their procedure.

 

Elsa x

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I'm very sorry to hear of your loss. Please accept my sincere condolences.

 

The funeral account comes first and foremost, before any creditors/debts owed. As soon as you are able to hold the funeral (once you have a death certificate after the post mortem) you can instruct the undertakers to organise things. Then go to your son's bank and ask for an authority to pay the funeral account. There won't be enough for the funeral I'm affraid and you will probably have to top up the difference yourselves.

 

You will not need to bother with getting a Grant of Letters of Administration (I assume your son died without a will) and therefore the bank should accept your i.d. and the death certifcate as sufficient to pay out for the funeral.

 

You will then write to all of his creditors and tell them the estate is insolvent.

 

The TV will be returned unless you wish to purchase it.

 

Kind regards,

DS

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Hi All,

 

Thanks again for all of the great info, it is a relief to know that the funeral expenses are the priority, because both his mother and I are far from wealthy people and this is an expense that we had just not budgeted for.

 

His mum would like to keep the TV, really because it was something that he was so pleased to get. But I guess if the insurance doesn't cover death, then it will have to go back.

 

Anyway, thank you everyone for your kind words and support, you are all fantastic and a big part of my support network. Thank you.

 

MC

The villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi and sorry for posting in the wrong forum, but wasn't sure where to stick this one. If a kind mod would like to move it somewhere more appropriate, please do.

 

As some of you may know, my son unexpectedly passed away in December. His mum and I are currently trying to sort his estate etc and one thing that has cropped up is in regard to a distance learning course he had taken up with the Home Learning College.

 

The situation is that he took out a loan, arranged by the HLC via what is now Barclays Partenr Finance. Now there is going to be nowhere near enough in his estate to repay them, there is not enough to pay even half of his funeral expenses.

 

But it dawned on me that the HLC had been paid in full, in advance for this course, which would have included on-going tutor supoport and the costs of the final exams he would have taken. It struck me that there may be a possibility of a partial refund, at least for the costs of the exams that he would not now be taking.

 

So I emailed them and advised them of the situation, that he had passed away and would they be offering a partial refund. thier response was a blunt 'you should speak with the finance company'. Which struck me as strange, because, as I see it, they have been paid in full, in advance. So they, in my mind, should be the ones to approach as regards a possible part refund.

 

I replied, but this time a little stonger, saying that they were passing the buck and we could always ask a small claims judge to decide. Again they responded with speak to the finance company!

 

Now I'm not sure whether it would be seen as acceptable to expect a partial refund, although it would seem fair to me, on the basis that they have been pre-paid for services and expenses that they now would not have to provide!

 

Could I get some views pleaese on whether my view would seem reasonable and who should be the company to approach?

 

Much obliged in advance.

 

MC

The villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

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If not said before, condolences on your loss - I have been where you are now and would not wish that on anyone.

 

I understand where you are coming from and do agree with your point as it seems reasonable.

 

What I did wonder was, do the finance company pay the full amount 'up front' or in say, quarterly payments, in arrears. This is a situation I have experienced.

 

Personally, I would write to both the finance company and college and inform them that as executor there will be no money forthcoming from you son's Estate and there is no-one else who can be held legally responsible for any loss of income suffered. Point out that he never completed the course and therefore there will be very little loss of income, if any. They will huff and puff but what can they do?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks Alf & HS,

 

This one is on hold at the moment, because we have a more urgent issue as regards the Halifax, which I'm looking for some advice on.

 

My Son had a number of accounts, all with Halifax, most with a positive balance amounting to around £900.00. There is a current account with an overdraft of around £108.00 and a credit card with a negative balance of about £140.00

 

Firstly, with the credit card, I understood (perhaps wrongly) from looking on the .gov.uk site that funeral expenses were the priority debt and once paid any remaining balnce would be spilt between creditors. However, Halifax have sent us a letter saying that they will not release his money until we give them written permission to pay the outstanding balance of his credit card. They state that there is 'a legal requirement for outstanding debts to be settled before any monies are paid to family and friends', which I find contrary to what I read about the priority being funeral expenses!

 

The other issue is with charges against his overdrawn current account. Myself and my son's mum went into his branch between Xmas and the new year (29th or 30th) to advise them of his passing. We were advised at that time that any charges subsequent to his death would be waived or credited back. Due to a long delay with the coroner, we were unable to furnish them with a certificate until 30/01/2011 (he passed on 23/12/2010). However, we have continued to receive letters regarding his O/D account and stating £5.00 per day charges, now I have spoken to the branch manager about this as well and yet still they are sending letters demanding payment and stating daily charges!

 

Please tell me we can sue the feckers for some sort of damages, they have been complete and utter shysters, ignored our requests to stop sending demands and gone back on what they told us verbally in branch!

 

Reading between the lines, it seems they are using the O/D and charges as leverage for the CC to be paid, but maybe they want all thet paid too!

 

Your advice greatfully received.

 

MC

The villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

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I would first off report them to the Office of Fair Trading - how can they continue to charge someone on their account when that person is no longer with us? They are abusing their position.

 

Write a complaint to their Head Office and inform them that unless they settle this matter, you will be making a formal complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. (if you originaly complained over 8 weeks ago you can go to the FOS anyway)

 

Also report them to the Information Commisioners Office if they are still sending you Bills/statements etc or in any way processing the details of a deceased person - thus giving his family further undue stress.

 

This is an outrages way to conduct business. If you feel able to do so you could also complain to your local press who would be interested in this kind of thing. But only do this if you feel up to it.

 

This thread may be better on the legal issues forum - i will ask a memeber of the site team to have a look and see what they think.

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So the bank is adding charges to the o/d even though they are aware of your son's death ?

 

I would definitely advise a complaint to the Financial ombudsman.

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Thanks Dadofholly & CitezenB.

 

If it helps, here are the latest communications from them as pdf's.

 

Having trouble attaching again, lol. Will try in seperate posts.

The villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

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