ET1 advice please

[SarEl]

This isn't required - or, frankly, wanted! The point of the ET1 and ET3 are not to argue the case - that is what the tribunal is for. You only amend if you are adding to the claim. You now get on and prepare for your case to be heard. At some point in the dim and distant future!

[R&J]

unless there was some form of unlawful discriomination you cannot claim victimisation

 

Can you please elaborate?

 

I was always under the impression that victimisation was an entirely seperate claim in addition to the usual ud/discrim etc...and something you could claim in a situation where you had raised a greviance or complaint, and were then subsequently victimised as a result?

[SarEl]

Can you please elaborate?

 

I was always under the impression that victimisation was an entirely seperate claim in addition to the usual ud/discrim etc...and something you could claim in a situation where you had raised a greviance or complaint, and were then subsequently victimised as a result?

 

The word “victimisation” has a specific meaning in law. Victimisation occurs when a person is treated with detriment because s/he has made an allegation of unlawful discrimination against his or her employer, made an allegation that amounts to one of discrimination, or supported or given evidence in such an allegation made by another person. It has no application in any other circumstance. Detrimental actions (which the world may class as victimisation or harassment - but not the law) MAY be cause to claim UD or CUD - but they do not constitute claims in their own right. I am surprised that you didn't realise this - I though you worked in law? But I may have misunderstood.

[R&J]

All is good. That was my understanding of it, we are basically saying the same thing.

[SarEl]

All is good. That was my understanding of it, we are basically saying the same thing.

 

Ah. I see. It was a test ?

[Bignick58]

Ah. I see. It was a test ?

 

Don't bother testing SarEl.

 

She's really busy with PROPER stuff!

[Bignick58]

Hi all,

Just ploughing through all the paperwork involved in my wife's case.

On reading the company policy on disciplinary and appeals it states that "We will comply with the minimum statutory disciplinary procedures."

I believe this refers to the old statute,repealed in 2009?

If so, are they still bound to follow the old statutory process, (because they have it written into their policies) or can they ignore it?

 

I understand that the old statute can't actually be used as a tool, but is it still worth pursuing transgressions at a tribunal, as it forms part of their policy?

 

Thanks for any further advice,

Nick.

[SarEl]

Hmm, somebody doesn't update? It isn't relevant. The Stat. procedure was replaced by ACAS guidelines (on their site) and these are pretty much the same thing. In almost all cases (small employers being a possible exception) the tribunals use these as minimum standards, and any employer who doesn't meet them would be in some trouble.

 

I notice "wifey's" name has changed - been clattered around the head have we???

[Bignick58]

Hey, SarEl....

 

 

Shhhhh!

[Bignick58]

Hi SarEl,

 

Well, the wife's just received an order for disclosure in preparation for the bundle.

 

I've had a look around the web, but aren't sure about the "nuts and bolts" of this part of the process.

 

Do we just wait and see what the respondent sends to us?

Or, should we be making specific requests for documents?

 

We're pretty sure that there are specific things we want that won't be sent

The respondent has denied their relevance all through my Wife's dismissal process.

 

Is it correct that this disclosure part is open ended? (There's a deadline date in the Judge's letter.)

 

It looks like she's been asked for a schedule of loss.

Is there anything else she should be sending the Respondent?

I've seen mention about mitigation evidence, job applications, etc.

 

Also, the parties have been asked to agree and prepare a bundle.

Who normally does this?

 

(I may have more questions later.)

 

Thanks,

Nick.

[SarEl]

What - that fast? Nay, surely not? Who asked? Jeez, you are months off getting a date for tribunal I guess, and having not even had a CMD - so who the hell is doing a bundle riight now? You must live in the area (and I have no idea where it is - please tell me!) with the shortest backlog in the country if it happened this fast!

 

But you ask for the doument you want disclosing. They will them argue why you can't have them. By this time you should have caught up with the backlog! They cabn't decline something (although they will try!) because they say it isn't relevant. It's up to the tribunal to decide what is and isn't relevent.

 

Disclosure isn't open ended - there will be a deadline. But you probably aren't there yet.

 

Who asked for schedule of loss? This seems very premature.

 

Oh dear - lots of typos. I can't type, it's late, and I can't be bothered changing them - you know what I mean!

[Bignick58]

Leeds ET...

 

More details tomorrow, just off to bed for my beauty sleep.

 

Later,

Nick.

[SarEl]

If it's Leeds - definitely not that fast! Its's one of my local offices! And unless I woke up in an alternate reality - 9 months backlog!

[Bignick58]

Hi SarEl,

Just another quick message before getting ready for work.

 

Yes, it's definitely Leeds.

Welcome... to the Twilight Zone!

 

Are you a "Wessy" then?

We're about an hour East of Leeds.

 

 

Disclosures by mid March, bundle to include compensation award claim details (schedule of loss?).

Witness statements by early April, notice of hearing in due course.

 

All ordered by the Judge.

 

So, we get to see (eventually), what we ask for, then decide what we want in the bundle?

 

The judge has tried to nip the "relevancy" issue in the bud.

Anything in dispute should be included and relevancy decided by the Tribunal.

 

 

Any pointers on what we should disclose?

 

We've got prepared notes which my wife was intending to use at her disciplinary and appeal hearings, (she wasn't allowed to refer to them at the meetings).

We could also provide evidence of job hunting.

 

That's all for now.

 

Catch you later,

Nick.

[SarEl]

Hi SarEl,

Just another quick message before getting ready for work.

 

Yes, it's definitely Leeds.

Welcome... to the Twilight Zone!

 

Are you a "Wessy" then?

We're about an hour East of Leeds.

 

 

Disclosures by mid March, bundle to include compensation award claim details (schedule of loss?).

Witness statements by early April, notice of hearing in due course.

 

All ordered by the Judge.

 

So, we get to see (eventually), what we ask for, then decide what we want in the bundle?

 

The judge has tried to nip the "relevancy" issue in the bud.

Anything in dispute should be included and relevancy decided by the Tribunal.

 

 

Any pointers on what we should disclose?

 

We've got prepared notes which my wife was intending to use at her disciplinary and appeal hearings, (she wasn't allowed to refer to them at the meetings).

We could also provide evidence of job hunting.

 

That's all for now.

 

Catch you later,

Nick.

 

That pretty much covers everything. You disclose anything that you intend to rely on in evidence - and then anything the employer asks for (which isn't often the case that there is anything else). You don't need to provide evidence of job hunting yet - that is only relevant to the tribunal if you win. But do make sure that you keep it all.

 

I feel much better now - "in due course" will be the clincher. That's where the delay will happen!

[Bignick58]

I feel much better now - "in due course" will be the clincher. That's where the delay will happen!

 

So glad I've put your mind at ease.. Go and have a coffee to calm the nerves.

[Bignick58]

Well,

 

The case was heard on Friday... and we lost .

 

Gutted!

 

The Judge wasn't really interested in a number of (we thought) significant procedural issues.

 

The original allegation of my wife swearing in front of customers was made by a team leader.

There was documented history of problems my wife was having with this team leader.

 

The bottom line was that there was a statement from a witness supporting her version of events.

 

So, we not only had to show that the witness was lying (very difficult), but we also had to show that the dismissing officer also believed he was lying. (Nigh on impossible.)

 

Thanks for all the help from all on the board.

 

One more final question...

 

Now that this case has now been heard in a public court, I presume it is now in the public domain.

 

Would I now be able to put up a website about this?

 

My wife does keep in touch with some workers there and has been told that the "supporting witness" has let it be known generally (young idiot) that he lied about being a witness in exchange for promised privileges at work.

 

My main aim would be to let the other employees know the actual reason for the judgment and allow them all to draw their own conclusions, knowing what they now know about the supporting witness.

 

I am an internet marketer and also have the knowledge and ability to promote a website to a large audience, which would also give me some degree of satisfaction.

 

Thanks all once again.

 

Nick.