Dealer financed friends car 2 months AFTER he bought it

[minnie]

Hi all,

 

I'm posting on behalf of a friend I'm trying to help so would be grateful for any advice please.

 

Friend purchased a used car from a local dealer in Dec 2009 and his V5 and a HPI check confirms he is the current registereed keeper since 23rd Dec 2009. He paid over 10k for the car in full by cheque which was made out to the dealer in his trading name.

 

Nov 2010 - friend received a letter from ING Direct who are claiming ownership of the vehicle by way of an outstanding finance amount (unknown) made between them and the dealer. ING claim they have termintated their contract with the dealer who now has no authority to deal with and has no title to the vehicle. ING have further instucted RNA International Ltd to act on their behalf in the recovery or investigation of the situation. RNA have been in contact by phone and email and have asked for the completion of a questionnaire regarding date of purchase, proof of payment etc. More worryingly they have also been to my friends house, we believe to repossess the car, and he rang my friend on his mobile whilst outside his house. Fortunately he was out ......... in the car!

 

At first this appeared to be the, all too familiar story, of a vehicle being sold with outstanding finance. That, however, is not the case as there was no outstanding finance on the vehicle at the time of sale. The finance agreement was only made between ING and the dealer in Feb 2010, 2 months AFTER the sale and is the date shown on the HPI check data. During a phone call to ING my friend got verbal confirmation of this from the ING agent.

 

This is clearly the result of the fraudulent activities of the dealer who we have since found out is in serious financial trouble and has been doing this regularly for several months. I believe that ING have no rights to the car as the dealer was not the registered keeper at the time he financed it. My friend has documents to support that and the same information is readily available to ING. As ING have not provided the outstanding amount and did not reveal the finance date until pressed, we believe that they are just trying it on but we want to nip this in the bud and avoid any potential repossession scenario.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to approach this?

[patdavies]

I would caution your friend not to rely on the V5 and being the registered keeper - this has nothing to do with ownership.

 

I suggest that your friend writes (not phones) ING Direct and explains that he purchased the car months prior to the finance being arranged and enclose a copy of the invoice/reciept. Further suggest to ING that they contact the Police as regards what seems to be fraud on the part of the dealer (note; only suggest fraud, do not put any direct accusation into writing)

[Roblynmouth]

Hi

Some HPI checking companies also have insurance of they cock up, worth checking the docs for the HPI check

[str8talkinbailiff]

Your v5 (log book) is not proof of ownership.

You need to prove ownership by way of bill of sale, bank transfer etc.

Also as suggested above if you used a reputable hpi check you will have insurance up to £10,000 to cover mistakes made by the hpi company.

If you cannot prove it, register the car away from the address he/she lives at, and insure it away from the address it is kept until you can sort it all out.

[Surfer01]

If it is supposed to be on finance, then surely there is a loan document somewhere and this should then show who signed it and the date it was signed.

[crem]

the way I read it, minnie isn't suggesting the HPI company screwed up when minnie bought the car, but that the garage appear to have re-financed the car after they bought it. So it is irrelavant whether the OP used a HPI company with insurance because they did nothing wrong at the time to need them to pay out. The main party at fault here for allowing the finance is ING Direct who appear to have lent money to the garage and accepted as colateral a vehicle they didn't check the garage owned.

 

As long as the OP can produce a sales receipt and possibly also the record of the cheque being processed through their abnk if necessary, then the course of action should be for ING to report the crime of theft/fraud that the garage have done against them. I see no involvement of the OP in this fiasco.

[ltc1607]

I think you will find the dealer put this on his stock plan after yyou purchased it to help cash flow as long as you have bill of sale you should be ok.

[minnie]

Hi everyone, sorry for the delay getting back to this thread and thanks so much for all your input.

 

Crem has it right with regard to how things went and I too was of the opinion that ING are at fault here as the car was sold to friend way before the finance deal between ING and the dealer was made. ING's letter to friend makes no secret of the fact that the agreement was made between the dealer and them and even names the dealer as the other party, not my friend. Both the DVLA records and ING confirm that the finance deal was made 2 months after the sale.

 

Since my last post we've got together everything to support the purchase in Dec 09; a detailed receipt for the sale made out by the dealer including the amount of the cheque payment and of an old vehicle submitted as part exchange, a copy of the cheque provided by the bank and also a copy of his bank statement showing the cheque being cashed. Phew!

 

I'm therfore going to compose a letter for friend to send to ING which will include a copy of the cheque, bank statement and receipt. As patdavies suggested we shall also intimate that some fraud may be at play and that that ING may want to report that to the police. I think we should also send a copy to RNA, the company instructed by ING to recover the debt/vehicle. Is there anything to gain from friend advising the police himself that the dealer may be commiting fraud or is that solely down to ING?

 

In the meantime friend is keeping the car hidden in a garage when not in use and is even prepared to keep it at another friends garage until this is sorted.

 

You are right itc1607, word on 'da street' is that the dealer is in dire financial difficulty, not for the first time apparently, and did put this vehicle on his stock plan as he has done with others. One person has posted on a review site to stay well clear as he lost his car sadly. The difference there was that there was a finance deal in place when he purchased his car.

 

I'll let you know how we get on.

 

Cheers for now, Minnie

[crem]

Is there anything to gain from friend advising the police himself that the dealer may be commiting fraud or is that solely down to ING?

 

Possibly may be benefitial. After all, I think if someone told me someone else had took out a loan and used my car as collateral, I think I would also consider myself to be a victim of this fraud and feel entitled to report it to the police myself.

[minnie]

I thought that Crem! I'm mad that someones done that to my friend, I'd be bl**dy furious if it was done to me. My friend needs his vehicle for his business so the thought of losing it has caused him and his family a lot of stress and worry over the Christmas period, not to mention the inconvenience of making sure the car is locked away all the time. I'd say they were the only victim at the moment.

 

I also thought it may be a pro-active thing to do then if any attempt was made at a repossession the Police would already have a record of the situation.