CCJ Claim letter received from childs Nursery!

[iceboy]

Hi everyone,

 

My sister receieved a claim form from a school which my niece havent even attended and we are not sure what to do!

 

She sent my niece (5 year old now) to school's nursary in Summer 2009. But she didnt carry on sending her to the same school. But she paid all the nursary fees at the time.

 

However, the school claims that she was withdrawn without notice from the primary school. She only attended the same school only for the nursary and they have no proof that she was agreed to carry on for the primary school.

 

Here is what the particulars of claim section states:

 

------ Outstanding Fees of #80 for Summer 2009 and Lieu of notice for Autumn 2009 because a full terms notice was not given prior to withdrawal of child from Langdale School. The claiment claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 01/09/2009 to 14/12/2009 on #1,077.00 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of #0.25 -------

 

The letter was received on the 15 December 2010. And from the date i believe she has 5 + 14 days to respond so that leaves her time to respond until 3rd of January!

 

She usually leaves in Blackpool, she only came down to London to see us for the holidays and only now she told me about the letter! And i really dont know what to do!

 

Not sure if theres time to extend the deadline! Thats why i need your help guys. We have only 3 days left and here i am sitting on my laptop on new years eve trying my best!

 

I would really appreciate if you could help me with this matter...

 

I wish everyone a happy new year and i hope all your wishes come true this year...

 

Many Thanks.

 

Kindest Regards;

iceboy

[rebel11]

Hi Iceboy

 

If you need more time to respond

If your defence is complicated and you need more time to respond, you can fill in the 'Acknowledgment of Service Form' N9.

If you file an acknowledgment of service within 14 days, this will allow you an extra 14 days to complete the defence form.

 

You can file for extension online.

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/c...s/n9_web_e.pdf

[citizenB]

Does your sister have a copy of a contract with the nursery/school

Has she kept receipts/cheque stubs for payments made.

[rebel11]

Also, just something that could be important. I would have thought that a conversation must of taken place to find out why your niece hadn't turned up to the Summer Nursery/School. The Nursery might of done this from a business point or concern for your niece, when dealing with kids it's very slapdash, I'm sure they should show more

responsibility and concern. Or to even find out if there was a problem with the Nursery.

[iceboy]

Thank you for your responds. She said she has no proof of payments made. My brother in law made payments on a weekly basis and that was made cash in hand. However, if they were to miss payment, I am sure they would have said something. So I'm not sure how they can now claim they owe money to school for the term they have already paid for!

 

She also says she has no copy of contract! She has not signed anything, which is just awkward!

 

If we were to extend it for another 14 days, could she be able to ask them for proof of debt or agreement? And if they have none, can she just ask them to stop the claim through court?

 

However, I want to know, if she fills the aknowledgement form, does that mean she accepts the debt? Will she never be able to avoid going court?

 

I wanted to know if we could solve the problem between the school and my sister without any involvement of the court?

 

Once again, thanks a lot for your responds guys... Looking forward to hear from you again...

[The Mould]

Thank you for your responds. She said she has no proof of payments made. My brother in law made payments on a weekly basis and that was made cash in hand. However, if they were to miss payment, I am sure they would have said something. So I'm not sure how they can now claim they owe money to school for the term they have already paid for!

 

She also says she has no copy of contract! She has not signed anything, which is just awkward! Yes, a problem for the claimant.

 

If we were to extend it for another 14 days, could she be able to ask them for proof of debt or agreement? And if they have none, can she just ask them to stop the claim through court? Yes, if you have time to file or request an extension then, you can request disclosure of the contract that the claimant intends to rely upon (and any other documents mentioned in his POC's)

 

However, I want to know, if she fills the aknowledgement form, does that mean she accepts the debt? Will she never be able to avoid going court? No, filing the AOS back to the court does not mean that the defendant accepts or admits to the claim. (2nd Q) depends on the evidence/documents that the claimant has in his possession that substantiates his claim/allegations.

 

I wanted to know if we could solve the problem between the school and my sister without any involvement of the court? Yes, it is perfectly legal for both parties to the action to engage in discussion in relation to the issues of the case in order to see if a settlement can be reached.

 

Once again, thanks a lot for your responds guys... Looking forward to hear from you again...

 

Hello Iceboy

 

Are you sure about those dates? January 3 2010 is a Bank Holiday, the courts are closed.

 

Have you filed the Acknowledgement of Service yet?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[iceboy]

Thank you for your respond Mould. I have not yet managed to fill out the Acknowledgement of Service form online as the user name and password doesnt work! It wont let me login! I logged into http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk using the claim number and the password, but no luck! It says wrong password! And i am not sure if i have enough time to send the form back using post now!

 

I am sure about the dates (i guess)

Issue date is 15 Dec 2010. It says you get 5 days +14 days. That leaves us until the 3rd January! However, if i could do it online, it would save us time but i cant!

 

Also, could you help me with requesting disclosure of the contract from the claimant. How do i do it?

 

Once again, many thanks for all your helps... Thank you...

[iceboy]

Oh also i forgot to mentioned that her name is on the claim form is wrong!

 

They used double 'n' instead of just one. Instead of 'iceboy London' they wrote 'iceboy Lonndon'

 

Does that make any change? I am not sure but hopefully it does..

 

Thank you...

[the_shadow]

Thank you for your respond Mould. I have not yet managed to fill out the Acknowledgement of Service form online as the user name and password doesnt work! It wont let me login! I logged into http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk using the claim number and the password, but no luck! It says wrong password! And i am not sure if i have enough time to send the form back using post now!

 

I am sure about the dates (i guess)

Issue date is 15 Dec 2010. It says you get 5 days +14 days. That leaves us until the 3rd January! However, if i could do it online, it would save us time but i cant!

 

Also, could you help me with requesting disclosure of the contract from the claimant. How do i do it?

 

Once again, many thanks for all your helps... Thank you...

 

I have seen this before that the username and password dont let you login, if I was you I'd take screenshots of failures to login to prove that you have attempted it and then ring the Northampton bulk court ASAP on tuesday morning when they open to explain problem.

 

As to the disclosure you are in a bit of difficulty due to nothing being mentioned in the Partiulars of claim so you cant request directly any documents. Possibly better to request information under CPR18... questions like "Under what terms and conditions was the child accepted into nursery during school term xx/xx" and "Has a copy of the terms and conditions been passed to the defendant at any stage".. those sort of questions. Anybody come up with more suitable questions?

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Oh also i forgot to mentioned that her name is on the claim form is wrong!

 

They used double 'n' instead of just one. Instead of 'iceboy London' they wrote 'iceboy Lonndon'

 

Does that make any change? I am not sure but hopefully it does..

 

Thank you...

 

Fraid they can amend the claim and the judge I'm sure will allow it if its just a simple misspelling.

 

S.

[rebel11]

Hi Iceboy

 

Just a thought, might be worth finding out if they have put in a claim against any of the other parents whose kids attended the Summer School.

[iceboy]

Hi guys;

 

Managed to fill Aknowledegment of Service Form online finally. It turned out that i had to register first and than login with the details provided!

 

Shadow, now that i have another 14 days to respond, do you know how can i request information under CPR18? I searched on how to requestCPR18 but had no luck. Would be gratefull i fyou could help me with this matter.

 

Also, could you please (if possible) provide me with a little template?

 

Many many thanks...

[the_shadow]

Hi guys;

 

Managed to fill Aknowledegment of Service Form online finally. It turned out that i had to register first and than login with the details provided!

 

Shadow, now that i have another 14 days to respond, do you know how can i request information under CPR18? I searched on how to requestCPR18 but had no luck. Would be gratefull i fyou could help me with this matter.

 

Also, could you please (if possible) provide me with a little template?

 

Many many thanks...

 

Hi Iceboy, you can find details and a template for cpr18 here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?255329-CPR-part-18-vs-CPR-31.14-Confused-well-read-here

 

S.

[The Mould]

Hi guys;

 

Managed to fill Aknowledegment of Service Form online finally. It turned out that i had to register first and than login with the details provided!

 

Shadow, now that i have another 14 days to respond, do you know how can i request information under CPR18? I searched on how to requestCPR18 but had no luck. Would be gratefull i fyou could help me with this matter.

 

Also, could you please (if possible) provide me with a little template?

 

Many many thanks...

 

Hello iceboy

 

So you have filed the AOS, now you need to request disclosure of the contract that the claimant intends to rely upon in his claim, CPR 31.14 request for disclosure, the claimant will then have 7 days to comply (send said request by registered post only).

 

The POC's claim that the defendant is in breach of terms/conditions of a contract, if there is no written and signed contract between the two parties, then there is no claim as the claimant will be unable to substantiate/validate his allegation.

 

Does the claimant have legal representation (Solicitor stated on the claim form)? If yes, send CPR request to the Solicitors.

 

I hope that will help you a little bit.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[iceboy]

Thank you for your quick respond Mould, i really appreciate it.

 

The claimant does not have legal representation, therefor i must send the CPR 31.14 to the claiment address. I hope i got this right.

 

I have found x20's template here on the forum, but not sure how much editing it needs! Could you please help me with this tamplate?

 

If it is good enough, i am planning to send this first thing in the morning.

 

Once again, thank you for your help.

 

Kindest Regards...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On 15 December 2010, I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1. The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2. The assignment*

 

3. The default notice*

 

4. The termination notice*

5. [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

------- not sure which one to delete and keep! -------------

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours Faithfully;

iceboy

[iceboy]

Could anyone please confirm if the above letter is the correct letter to send to the claimant?

 

Many Thanks.

Kindest Regards;

iceboy

[citizenB]

Yes, iceboy, that is the CPR31.14 letter that you need to send to the claimaint/or their solicitors. You can only ask for the documents mentioned in the particulars of claim.

 

So that will mean you need to strip out.. the default notice, the assignment, and the termination notice as none of these are mentioned.

 

So that leaves you with just the agreement/contract and statement of account showing how the balances claimed are arrived at. HTH.

 

For any other INFORMATION only you will be able to use the CPR18 you will find in the link in below.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?255329-CPR-part-18-vs-CPR-31.14-Confused-well-read-here

[citizenB]

You will need to send any requests/documents to the person/company named in the section of the claim form where it says service of documents.

[citizenB]

I would suggest you use the word "Contract" rather than agreement.

[the_shadow]

Please be aware that a verbal contract/agreement CAN be legally binding... its for the judge to decide. Remember county court is on a probability basis not strict proof, a judge will look at the evidence and see if a contract was formed and if so was it broken correctly.

 

Personally as no service was obtained... i.e. the child did not attend the school I cant see how it can be enforced as no service no remuneration but its dangerous to deal in certainties when there are none.

 

S.

[The Mould]

Good evening iceboy

 

Yes, as stated by CitizenB, the default notice, assignment and termination notice does not apply to your CPR request for disclosure, also, I wholly agree with what The Shadow has stated regarding oral contracts. If the claim does proceed, then your brother-in-law should be made a witness for the defence in relation to how payments were made etc. Perhaps the school's admin is all over the place and therefore accurate and up to date records could of failed to be maintained.

 

Post up when you here back from the claimant.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[iceboy]

Hi guys,

 

Thank you very much for your helps. As i stated before, i sent the letter and my sister recieved a respond which she managed to scan and email it to me.

 

She has been sent, statement of account and the aggreement (both i have added as an attachement below)

 

Aggreement states that payment must be made in advance but she has not made the payment, so how can they still ask for it? The paper she signed says Term 2009. Does that mean summer school term or autumn term? I am not sure! If they say the payment must be made before hand, how can they say she owes them money? And she has not set up a payment plan either!

 

Statement of account shows that no payment made between 1st May to 1st April! Also, if pupil is not attending school, arent they supposed to call her mum and check up?

 

Also, the agreement does not state that the child was registered for both Summer and Autumn term!

 

My sister had to take her off the school as my niece (after starting on that school) was acting agressive and was not happy.

 

Can anyone help me with this please? She doesnt have much time left! If i am correct, she has time only till the 17th!

 

Please help me guys so i can help my sister.

 

Many Thanks...

 

 

Edited January 15, 2011 by iceboy

[iceboy]

Also, my sister claims that she doesnt have a copy of what she signed and never had it! Not sure if that makes any difference...

[the_shadow]

Hmmm this contract doesnt appear to have an end... rolling contract until cancelled?

 

It does clearly state tho that a full terms written notice MUST be given to take the child out and if its not then the fee must be paid... hence the amount on the statement for "lieu of notice" imo.

 

As to the query about payment in advance, that is what they requested, the contract is binding when signed not when payment is made unless stated so.

 

Might be some mitigation value in the fact she wasnt given the terms she agreed to when signing the document.

 

S.

[iceboy]

Thanks for the respond Shadow.

 

What can we do now? I mean, the agreement is on a different page. How can they claim that she has the same aggreement? Could they not just make it up and attach it as an agreement? Doesnt the agreement supposed to be on same page with the signature?

 

I am not sure what to do now! I just cant think of anything!