Advent Computer Training (Barclays Partner Finance)

[DonnieB]

Well done on getting a result Fuzzbutt. Sorry its not exactly the one you (we) were looking for.Sorry if this questionis a bit premature (and probably selfish) but do we know what this means, if anything, for the rest of us?

[10pack]

Well done Fuzzbutt..

First Blood.. part one.

 

our group is aiming for begining of May to start our actions against Barclays

[lowdown]

Little consolation until you contest of course.

But in the greater sum of all this, BPF are now on legally murky ground.

Many students may find the confidence to take them on in small claims,

what with the threshold rising in April.

Good attempt Fuzzbutt, i am impressed [refund apart of course]

[blade325]

Well done Fuzzbutt for all the hard work that you have put in not just for yourself but all of us collectively. Although the result was not how you expected it to go, it has now proved that BPF have/ had no right to try to impose Computeach on us. The amount offered as compensation is a joke and it tells me and I am sure the rest of us that if we decide to make a small claim against BPF, it might be prudent to find an independent IT course that would cost a couple of thousands of pounds but less than the Advent one. This might make the judge give an increased settlement offer????

ps does this also now mean that BPF are going to clear your credit history and terminate your contract??

[Fuzzbutt]

It's a hollow victory really as, even though I won and beat BPF, I'm the loser financially. I'd completed half the course and had already paid off the loan in full, so I expected I'd get at least £2,000 back in fairness.

The irony is I was trying to show what a rip off Advent was (and therefore CT) by quoting the cost of the COMPTia CIW Designer course - if I'd been dishonest or not even mentioned it I probably would have got more!

 

I will query the amount as the court official said I could do - need to wait for the letter in the post now.

[lowdown]

Is it worth letting all the press/media people who took an interest at the start, of the outcome?

[richeeeee]

First of all wanted to say congrats to fuzzbutt on the victory, however minor it may seem to yourself and all at the moment. I dont think anyone here can really thank you enough to have helped and guided so many of us thus far with-out expecting anything in return! Many thanks form myself for sure.

 

My view is now this surely paves the way now for everyone to have debts written off at the very least???

[skinnyribs]

Stirling work fuzzbutt. I know you are personally out of pocket but through your hard work and perseverance you've just put a chink in the armour of a world financial power who could now be set to lose a stack.

 

Nice shootin

[Fuzzbutt]

Well, lets hope some good comes of it. Although I haven't seen the letter from the court (should be in today's post) if what the official read out was the whole picture then I am gravely disappointed.

Barclays bank have effectively walked off with nearly £5,000 of my hard earned money - another victory for the greed of banks and how they [problem] their own customers, following on from PPI and other recent scandals. How any judge would see that as fair completely baffles me, even if the tiny sum does allow me to do a CIW cert independantly and so technically fulfills the mitigation issue of S75 CCA . That money Barclays has (in my eyes) stolen from me I will never see back again - it was years of savings on a low wage and all I did was try to better myself and refuse to transfer to an inadequate replacement the bank forced on me.

 

I noticed how Hogan Lovells grabbed conveniently at the point I'd made that the CIW cert would cost £230 - perhaps I should have been dishonest with the court and not disclosed what I'd discovered in my research, but I'd included it as an illustration of just what a rip-off distance learning companies such as Advent and CT can be, over-charging for materials which are worth a fraction of the cost.

 

As I say, I'm waiting to see the full letter but I intend to query the amount awarded and raise this whole issue with LACORS, the Office of Fair Trading, and any newspaper who is interested.

[blade325]

Once again thanks for all your hard work Fuzzbutt, BPF's lawyers have effectively used the one bit of evidence that you provided as an example to the nature of distant learning courses being over priced to justify their clients greed in terms of mitigation. This should now be a lesson to all of us i.e. BPF's legal team will stoop to extremely low measures to get their way. If you have to go to small claims, make sure if you do include examples, make them fairly similar to the Advent prices, in-effect playing them at their own game.

ps The amount awarded is meant to be based on a level of interest being attached to it, I believe at the moment it is around 8%. please refer to my earlier post with the link to Insite Law, hope it helps.

[Fuzzbutt]

Once again thanks for all your hard work Fuzzbutt, BPF's lawyers have effectively used the one bit of evidence that you provided as an example to the nature of distant learning courses being over priced to justify their clients greed in terms of mitigation. This should now be a lesson to all of us i.e. BPF's legal team will stoop to extremely low measures to get their way. If you have to go to small claims, make sure if you do include examples, make them fairly similar to the Advent prices, in-effect playing them at their own game.

ps The amount awarded is meant to be based on a level of interest being attached to it, I believe at the moment it is around 8%. please refer to my earlier post with the link to Insite Law, hope it helps.

 

Exactly, Blade325 - I think their lawyers are beneath contempt. For the record the guy sent to the courtwas a Mr Duffy. I shall be writing a letter of disgust to Hogan Lovells, head of Barclays Mr Diamond and anyone else in the hope of shaming them - do these people ever feel remorse and shame I wonder at their underhand dealings and thievery?

[Mustard2243]

Well done on the result Fuzz! at least the debt is cancelled, however the compensation is dismal and in now way reflects the amount of work you have put into the case.

 

There is hope! i wonder now if i could write BPF a letter citing the case? the only problem with that is i have since moved and as such dont really want them to have my address. You could always now ask them for compensation re. your credit records? i saw someone say that they have to pay if the entries are made in error?

[Fuzzbutt]

Unfortunately for me, Mustard2243 I had already paid the whole £4,950 loan off, hence I say that is the amout Barclays have stolen from me effectively. I wouldn't mind so much if I'd been in the position of many of you where I'd stopped paying the loan! I wouldn't have lost so much then!In effect I've done all the leg work many will benefit from now (not that I begrudge that) but seems I get feck all out of it myself.

[blade325]

My personal opinion is that for the share amount of work that you have put in and the amount that most of us on the forum will get from this, the right thing to do from us all is to get a little collection together on your behalf. Maybe you could then use it to either go on a holiday or at least have a little in the bank.

[Fuzzbutt]

Thanks Blade - it's a very kind suggestion from you. I'll update my webiste in the next few days with some authorities people can complain to with a general letter about all this.

[lowdown]

Yep i would be up for that, a donation.

[Mustard2243]

Sorry fuzz, in that case that is ridiculous forgive me i am on nights atm. yawnnnn.

[Kraken1]

"If you have to go to small claims, make sure if you do include examples, make them fairly similar to the Advent prices, in-effect playing them at their own game."

 

I think it is worth digesting this decision before doing that. It seems to me, based on the info here, that the decision can be summarised like this:

 

There was a contract for the supply of 'x' training course leading to 'y' qualification

This was financed by Barclays

The company providing x went under

Under s75 Barclays are therefore liable for the breach of contract in supplying x and therefore 'y'

The student is therefore entitled to a remedy under contract. This is to be put in the same position they would have been in, being supplied with x and then achieved y, or at least attempted the exam.

Barclays cannot force an alternative provider of x or y onto the student.

The student can choose his own supplier of x and y, and Barclays must fund this.

 

Not in Fuzz's account, but a reasonable inference - the student has a duty to mitigate their losses and this means that they must opt for the most cost effective alternative to get x and y. A claim for 5k alleging that this was the alternative cost would fail if Barclays could show that their suggested x was sufficiently similar to the original x and achieved y. Fuzz showed what the most cost effective remedy was and the court awarded this. it means that s/he will ultimately be able to have y cost of the initial contract.

 

This is all assuming that arguments that x was not initially missold and that the replacement x and y are sufficiently similar fail or are not advanced.

[lowdown]

Kranken - i have an interesting situation going on between fos & BPF over my appeal.

This is under misselling.

BPF claim my course was never provided by Advent, and as such is not provided by Computeach.

Yet on my enrolment form it is clearly stated.

See attachments.

 

My course

BPF claim

[10pack]

Kranken - i have an interesting situation going on between fos & BPF over my appeal.

This is under misselling.

BPF claim my course was never provided by Advent, and as such is not provided by Computeach.

Yet on my enrolment form it is clearly stated.

See attachments.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33853[/ATTACH] My course

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33854[/ATTACH] BPF claim

 

So if Advent did not offer that course according to barclays.. what the fek are they saying you signed up for.. 30 minute cooking classes??

[lowdown]

what the fek are they saying you signed up for.. 30 minute cooking classes??

 

Well - my appeal adjudicator is waiting [and giving BPF plenty of time] to make something up....... it seems.

[Kraken1]

that would seem to be a persuasive case! Based on Fuzz's case, it would seem that if they are not going to provide the course then they refund the cost. I'm assuming if they didn't offer the course you never started it...?

[fractal]

Maybe I am a beachy girl but in Fuzzbeat's case, I would go for a full refund PLUS moral damage. Buying a learning course, especially one that is a professional learning course is not like buying a sack of potatoes so if half of them are bad, you can take them back. A professional course is a serious commitment, and during the first year Fuzz invested time he could well spend in a more relaxing way, and money for extra materials, equipment etc - all that apart from paying the full fee. Second, being left in the lurch when the course provider disappeared has effectively nullified his efforts, caused emotional distress and has set off any career plans he might have had, related to the course and qualification.

 

Fuzz, if I had a case like yours, I would contact the media. I don't know how much one can claim for moral damage and emotional distress, but definitely the WHOLE fee plus interest - just imagine, had YOU failed to meet YOUR obligations, how much would THEY have been chasing you for by this time?

[lowdown]

that would seem to be a persuasive case! Based on Fuzz's case, it would seem that if they are not going to provide the course then they refund the cost. I'm assuming if they didn't offer the course you never started it...?

 

Correct...

As i said above, i am just waiting for my fos outcome, i appealed the first decision.

With both appeals i am into the seventeenth month of waiting.

It it goes against me, i will be going down the same road as Fuzzbutt [small claims]

I believe you have a time frame of six years for this, and if so i am well within this.

[Kraken1]

"I don't know how much one can claim for moral damage and emotional distress"

 

In contract claims, very little if not nothing. You can only make claims in certain rare circumstances, for eg a wrecked holiday or wedding.

 

And this is exactly like buying potatoes. You're entitled to a potato at the end of the process and Iif you don't get one from the seller you can go get it somewhere else.