Advent Computer Training (Barclays Partner Finance)

[another one]

Hi all,

 

I cant find the relevant documents to check whether the agreement I signed included end dates or not. Has anyone tried getting copies of their loan agreement from BPF or Advent/PKF?

[Penny Mitchell]

I've not posted for a while - but I've just spent the last few days catching up on all the history.

 

About the start/end date, I unfortunatly have these dates on my form , but was told by the sales guy, that if I had not finished by the end date, then I could extend after a short review with Advent. He was just putting a date, for the sake of putting a date.

 

Is it worth working out, for those people with start/end dates how long we were given. If there is a difference, then surely this prooves an inconsitancy, and not like-for-like?

 

For example mine says:-

Start - 04/11/08

End - 04/11/11

 

Three years in total. I would bet that not everyones is the same.

I also have a start and end date - 2 years - and my salesman said the same, that he was just putting the date on because the form required it, but I could extend it as many times as I liked by calling Advent and asking for it.

[malchus25]

Hi! I'm confused. I never met anyone from Advent, not even in September 2009 when I was corrisponding by phone and e/mail with them for this course application. All the documentation was done by email therefore all I have now and is considered a copy of the Advent agreement is a black and white paper form they sent, on which I had to put on my details and the start date of the course, which In my turn I sent back and that's it. I've never had in my possesion a form that is also filled or signed by one of Advent's representatives. I was supposed to meet someone from Advent but he never made it to London as he said. I admit kids wouild have done this better, I was anyway fooled and tricked and made to believe everything was so easy and fine Is there a way of using the fact that they never sent me back the form filled by them as well against BPF, could I prove somehow I never received a filled form back?

[mugsymo]

Hello

I see old thread is finished.

Can i ask You for sugestion.

My current situation is:

Barclays sent Moorcroft Debt Recovery Limited on me few months ago. I've recived 4 letters 2 times (at one day i've get two twice), and for 4 months nobody asked me to repay my loan. Just today i've recived demand to pay back 10349.94 pounds in whole till 10/02/11 ( which of course i won't give them back (even if i would have any ot these)). As they saying if i wont do that without delay they will pass case to County Court and bailiffs.

If they will win case in court (i can't see it possible to win (same as it was with FOS) it in court as i'm foreigner which is not fluent with British law and language) what can do bailiffs to me, if:

- i live in rented home with two other mates (but rent contract was signed for my name (all 3 names were passed to Counsil)),

- all goods like TV, playstation or fridge and gym were bought together so i am not a full owner of it,

- i owe just things in my room like PC,

- i owe a flat abroad.

Can they try to take some of this things from me ?

 

They can't do much as Barclays keep moving us around from one debt collector agency DCA to the next, if you read all the information on this thread and the one just before, you should have a better understanding. I had Moorcroft on my back but i sent them some information from from the students website and told them that they are wasting time and money chasing ex Advent students and we are all in the same boat and that they need a DOA letter. Hopefully they will leave us alone....... just waiting for a reply from them

[Fuzzbutt]

Read this, for anyone still unclear about the dates issue......

 

http://adventstudents.webs.com/apps/blog/

[Fuzzbutt]

FUZZBUTT ANNOUNCEMENT:

I have just spoken with Ingrid at Hausfeld and she has asked me to emphasize that it's important for anyone with the no end dates/no dates to approach FOS and ensure you copy me (Fuzzbutt) the FINAL DECISION. She feels that this could be a good lever against BPF as it will show inconsistencies in FOS rulings. But she needs the evidence in the form of decision letters so PLEASE FOLLOW IT UP AND KEEP ME INFORMED.

Things ARE moving slowly but with enough FOS favourable decisions as ammunition she feels this will be a big step.

Ingrid has stressed she sympathises with people's anxiety but the case is far from simple and legally not clear cut at the moment.

[Fuzzbutt]

By the way, I have approached OFT about our case on behalf of the group and also the Ed Minister and FSA, plus writing AGAIN to Watchdog and Which? (lots of us 'old hands' in it from the start when this first kicked off early 2010 did this, but nothing came of it).

OFT have passed our case to their investigations team, FSA have replied they can't comment and Minister has given acknowledgement that this will be looked into. Watchdog and Which? also gave a standard acknowledgement to my complaint, and I hope to hear further.

Please contact them individually and complain - the more voices the more weight the case will have!

Thanks.

[Fuzzbutt]

By the way, I have approached OFT about our case on behalf of the group and also the Ed Minister and FSA. Plus writing AGAIN to Watchdog and Which? (lots of us 'old hands' in it from the start when this first kicked off early 2010 did this, but nothing came of it - initial interest fizzled out, despite my supplying LOADS of info to Watchdog).

OFT have passed our case to their investigations team, FSA have replied they can't comment and Minister has given acknowledgement that this will be looked into at sometime!. Watchdog and Which? also gave a standard acknowledgement to my complaint, and I hope to hear further that they will follow it up.

Please contact them individually and complain - the more voices the more weight the case will have!

Thanks.

[badge]

I also have a start and end date - 2 years - and my salesman said the same, that he was just putting the date on because the form required it, but I could extend it as many times as I liked by calling Advent and asking for it.

 

I wouldn't mind betting that this was the same salesman.

 

Makes me so annoyed that all we are trying to do is better oursleves, and try an progress up the employment ladder, but get kicked all the way back down. Grrrrrr

[badge]

By the way, I have approached OFT about our case on behalf of the group and also the Ed Minister and FSA. Plus writing AGAIN to Watchdog and Which? (lots of us 'old hands' in it from the start when this first kicked off early 2010 did this, but nothing came of it - initial interest fizzled out, despite my supplying LOADS of info to Watchdog).

OFT have passed our case to their investigations team, FSA have replied they can't comment and Minister has given acknowledgement that this will be looked into at sometime!. Watchdog and Which? also gave a standard acknowledgement to my complaint, and I hope to hear further that they will follow it up.

Please contact them individually and complain - the more voices the more weight the case will have!

Thanks.

 

Hi Fuzz - are you allowed to post the link up to the watchdog & which compaint form?

 

I would be happy to help and complain to them both to add some weight to the campaign.

[Fuzzbutt]

Hi Fuzz - are you allowed to post the link up to the watchdog & which compaint form?

 

I would be happy to help and complain to them both to add some weight to the campaign.

 

Not sure if we are allowed, but I'm sure you'll find it via Google.

[senobyte]

Has anyone who hasn't complained to the FOS yet run into the 6 month time limit? I wasn't sure I had a case with them until the recent development over the start and end dates, however looking at their site there is a time limit of 6 months after the final response to a complaint in which you can approach the FOS. Unfortunately my last response from Barclays was back in April. Any advice folks?

[Mustard2243]

Hello Everyone,

 

I signed up back in 2008 but much like others here i have not got an enrolment form, according to PKF all my records are now with Computeach i have emailed them to try and get hold of my forms no joy yet i will keep you all posted.

 

I do not think there was anywhere to put dates on my enrolment form however i would not put it past Computeach to add these themselves.

[mugsymo]

Hello Everyone,

 

I signed up back in 2008 but much like others here i have not got an enrolment form, according to PKF all my records are now with Computeach i have emailed them to try and get hold of my forms no joy yet i will keep you all posted.

 

I do not think there was anywhere to put dates on my enrolment form however i would not put it past Computeach to add these themselves.

 

I signed up in 2008 and like you i cant find my enrolement form either, what else can we do you would have thought the valid arguements from numerous students and all fuzzbutt's hard work that these corporate bullies would have finally ruled in our favour.

[Fuzzbutt]

FUZZBUTT ANNOUNCEMENT;

 

I have received a reply from the OFT, which I quote here in part;

 

"I am very sorry to hear about the difficulties you have been experiencing, however the OFT has no authority to become involved in disputes between consumers and traders and so we cannot offer you any direct help or advise you directly in this matter, especially as the matter is currently the subject of legal action via Hausfelds LLP.

This said, and as you may be aware, the OFT is responsible for monitoring the fitness, competence and conduct of those traders that hold consumer credit licences, such as BPF. Accordingly, the OFT is aware that BPF took a commercial decision to withdraw from the training market in early 2010 and that this decision, coupled with the inability of some traders to source an alternative finance provider, contributed to the insolvency of a number of training providers. We are aware of the issues that have arisen following these insolvencies and have been monitoring the situation....

We have noted the details of your complaints and will continue to monitor the situation. We would, however, be interested in receiving further details of individual complaints where a Court or the FOS has upheld complaints against BPF. Likewise we would be interested in receiving updates with regard to the group legal action you are involved with. Updates can be sent to [email protected]. Complaint information is vital to the OFT as it helps us to monitor the conduct of licensees and to determine whether licensing action is appropriate."

 

If anyone who had approached FOS again following this no end date development has a favourable decision come back from them, please contact the OFT and let me/Hausfeld know too. Thanks.

[Matt28LFC]

Hi all, ive been away from this for quite some time, i would like to know if there are any template letters i could use to complain to BPF (I know should have done this in the first place) as i dont have Start or End dates on my application form. After which i can go to the FOS after the 8 week period if i dont get a response or if i dont get the right response.

 

Many thanks

 

Matt

[Fuzzbutt]

For anyone still unclear over where to find the contract start end dates, please see my Advice page ('Complaining to the FOS' section) where you can see Jpeg images of the relevant parts of the documents (pre- summer 2009 blue/green and after summer 2009 yellow).

 

Thanks to Carl H on Facebook group for these.

[lowdown]

For anyone still unclear over where to find the contract start end dates, please see my Advice page ('Complaining to the FOS' section) where you can see Jpeg images of the relevant parts of the documents (pre- summer 2009 blue/green and after summer 2009 yellow).

 

Thanks to Carl H on Facebook group for these.

 

 

Fuzzbutt - The Jpeg's on the student site might be dated the wrong way round.My Enrolment form is the one with no boxes for dates.

And i am pre - summer 2009, unless there is a 3rd version knocking around [like mine]. Mine looks slightly different to both.

If you want to check it out i can email it to you.Not that it will make any difference i suppose, because there is still no date boxes.

[Fuzzbutt]

Fuzzbutt - The Jpeg's on the student site might be dated the wrong way round.My Enrolment form is the one with no boxes for dates.

And i am pre - summer 2009, unless there is a 3rd version knocking around [like mine]. Mine looks slightly different to both.

If you want to check it out i can email it to you.Not that it will make any difference i suppose, because there is still no date boxes.

 

Thanks Lowdown...I've just checked it. Mine is a blue copy with boxes and I signed up in 2008 - very odd. I think the fact there seem to be 2 different versions floating around, used ad hoc by the sales reps, just goes to show another inconsistency/incompetence by those supposedly trained to correctly advise potential new students.

Edited February 19, 2011 by Fuzzbutt

[nick1975]

oh wow thank god for you lot..ive just stumbled on this thread and im in the same boat as you guys..am i too late to join the group 600+ in the case....ive been at a loss for a year now and reading through the posts about the dcas it all makes sense now..apart from the being royally ripped off....fuzzbutt im desperate to join you guys, hope im not too late

[Fuzzbutt]

End dates and guarantors

 

For Guarantors - Hausfeld advise that if the Advent docs don’t show an end date for the course then it would be worth submitting a complaint into FOS yourself as the payee of the course to see what approach they take. Try and attach a statement to your complaint from your partner/family member who was the student about whether they were told the course was open ended or not and see what happens. They may not accept it on the basis that you are not the student, but if you signed the credit agreement on the basis of this, then there might be a chance.

[Fuzzbutt]

oh wow thank god for you lot..ive just stumbled on this thread and im in the same boat as you guys..am i too late to join the group 600+ in the case....ive been at a loss for a year now and reading through the posts about the dcas it all makes sense now..apart from the being royally ripped off....fuzzbutt im desperate to join you guys, hope im not too late

 

Just sent you the link, Nick1975.

[nelpin]

I recieved a letter from moorcorft debt recovery people this time stating, in the mcguffick v the royal bank of scotland plc (2009) EWHC 2386 Mr justice flaux ruled "although the consumer credit act may render the agreement unenforceable, the agreement remains a valid and subsisting contract and rights and obligations under it continue to exist"

 

Anybody else recieved anything like this?

[lowdown]

I recieved a letter from moorcorft debt recovery people this time stating, in the mcguffick v the royal bank of scotland plc (2009) EWHC 2386 Mr justice flaux ruled "although the consumer credit act may render the agreement unenforceable, the agreement remains a valid and subsisting contract and rights and obligations under it continue to exist"

 

Anybody else recieved anything like this?

 

lol...its a claim they try to use.

They would be up sh8t creek if they tried to enforce it.

 

Here is the case.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Comm/2009/2386.html

 

Google this....mcguffick v the royal bank of scotland plc , there is loads about it.

Moorcroft have copied and pasted it, without even knowing what it means..... lol..

 

Copy the whole case and send it onto them, and suggest they read the whole thing.

 

This is something Moorcroft have chosen to leave out from your letter regarding the court document...

" Rights under an agreement continue but cannot be enforced"

 

Reads different know, does it not?

Edited February 23, 2011 by lowdown

[nelpin]

Just looking at them forms... where do we stand if we cannot produce a copy of the green copied agreement. I cant remember ever receiving a copy if im honest.