Checking a GP with the GMC

[Roblynmouth]

Hi

 

After reading this fantastic site and offering my own help, i have realized there is something i need help with.

I want to check that the GP who conducted my WCA is qualified to deal with mental health issues, i have to fight my own appeal

Do we have a Template letter and address of the GMC so that I can ask

[honeybee13]

Rob, Erika advised someone the other day that the Health Care Professional only has to be qualified to carry out a WCA, not specifically in mental health, sorry. This comes up regularly on the forum. I'll look for the other thread and post a link for you.

 

HB

[honeybee13]

I can't find the other thread, sorry. I hope Erika will be along later to tell you herself.

 

HB

[Roblynmouth]

Hi

Its ok and thank anyway i eventually found what i was looking for

Have to say that is a farce if the guy doesn't have any ability with mental Health issues then how can he relate what the op is telling him to a working environment

[honeybee13]

Many of us have wondered that and some have appealed it and won.

 

HB

[leemack]

If you're appealing and can't get a benefits caseworker to help you, then you need to take a two pronged approach to tackling the appeal.

 

Firstly pick apart the medical report. The more inaccuracies and errors you can pick out the better. This questions the credibility of the examining doctor/health professional in the eyes of the tribunal. In this part you can point out that no questions were asked that could give sufficient information to make an assessment on mental health descriptors. Usually underneath each descriptor on the medical their will be answers you gave or observations they made to justify their decision. These are often really idiotic. For instance in 'coping with change' they may have justified with 'was well kempt and arrived on time' - if you read the descriptor, this is has no relevance whatsoever to whether a person can cope with change, so when making the appeal submission, you would point out that no information was requested in order to assess this descriptor. Rinse and repeat for as many as possible. The tribunal put a lot of stock in the medical reports - unless you tear them down before making the case of what descriptors do apply to you. The tribunal make a decision based on a balance of probabilities, and you need to show them that on balance, your evidence is better and more reliable than the atos report.

 

Secondly, get as much medical evidence relevant to the ESA descriptors that you think you score on, or on any exceptional circumstances that apply to you. People make the mistake of getting their doctor to describe their illnesses and say they're not fit for work - this isn't enough. To have the best case you need evidence directly related to the descriptors. Even if this means you ask the doctor to complete a questionnaire asking 'with your knowledge of patient's condition, do you believe he would have problems with x,y or z (x,y and z being the descriptors in question).

 

You then use all this info to write a submission. A submission usually goes something like this - name and national insurance number at the top. An opening line stating your case - I am appealing on the grounds that I should have scored x points on the esa work capability assessment, entitling me to employment support allowance and placing me in the work related activity group. A paragraph giving a short history of your condition. A section explaining the errors and inaccuracies in the medical report as described above. Then a paragraph for each descriptor that applies to you. I usually quote the descriptor in bold, and then underneath give real life examples of how the person fulfills the descriptor and make reference to any attached evidence related to the descriptor.

 

You don't need to discredit the gp who did the medical, just the medical report itself.

 

Link to descriptors http://www.benefitsnow.co.uk/esa/limitedcapability.asp

[honeybee13]

May I just add that my sticky on the 'front page' of the Benefits forum has a template for arguing how the descriptor points are wrong.

 

HB

[leemack]

May I just add that my sticky on the 'front page' of the Benefits forum has a template for arguing how the descriptor points are wrong.

 

HB

 

Sorry, honeybee, I should have put a link to it, didm't remember it had a template on it.

[honeybee13]

No problems Leemack.

 

HB x

[Roblynmouth]

Thanks everybody

Have to say that my problem is more technical than not scoring points i have enough points. But the DM has said that because my armchair at home [i was WCA/medically assessed at home] has an electric motor and i was able to push the buttons that means i have no problems in standing up or sitting down [oh and move to a second chair, even though the second chair would also have to be fitted with a motor]. He is infect saying that the word Something, which is what a chair motor is has the same meaning as Somebody [which i take to mean a human person and is the word used in the regs in terms of assistance]. I need to find out what meaning the regulations under law have given to the meaning of the word Somebody i.e. is it meant to be the same as something or visa versa [the OED has listed each word as having a separate meaning]? As a result of the DM's decision I am in the WRAG group and feel that i should be in the Support Group?

I have also asked for a second WCA on account of my condition is now worse [toilet habits and paralysis] siting DMG 07/10 para 14 [i sent them a copy of the DM Guidance. but they wont let me have one and say that any second WCA is discretionary at the interpretation of the DM [apparently under Reg 31 & Reg 14]

I do like the notion that an adult nappy is a receptical and of course don't stop me voiding my bowels and having to travel around for the rest of the day with a nappy full [i can get dressed unattended or unassisted or wipe my bum at the moment]

 

I found this when looking at the regs to describe sitting standing etc

Cannot move between one seated position and another seated position located next to one another without receiving physical assistance from another person. (15 points)

They appear to have given me the points but then told me that i am in the WRAG because i got out of the chair with my motor

BTW the DWP wont write to me anymore let alone answer my questions

Edited January 1, 2011 by Roblynmouth

[ErikaPNP]

The word "somebody" is not defined within the regulations. It should therefore carry it's ordinary everyday meaning.

[Roblynmouth]

Hi

Yer i figure that but the DM is very sure of him self.

I did find the latest Chief medical officers advice also refers to 'without receiving phsyical assistance from somebody else' and that was dated August 2010

Sp i suppose i will have to wait until my appeal in the mean time i have to travel to these useless Working link interviews where they turn their eyes to the sky when i 'walk' through the door as they are expected to get me into work.

I also think i have scored another 15 points for my Toilet problem which is probably why the DM wont let me have a second WCA?

[leemack]

My take on your situation is different from your adviser. My understanding of the regs is that you should be assessed on an upright chair, not on a chair with adaptations - can you get up from an ordinary upright dining chair without assistance? Whether you can get up from an adapted armchair is irrelevant.

 

Also being unable to control voiding is not related to whether you are emptying your bowels into an adult nappy or not. It is the act of being unable to control bowels or bladder that is important.

 

It sounds as if your adviser is confused with dla, where adaptations and ability to cope yourself with toilet problems do count when doing an assessment.

Edited January 2, 2011 by leemack

[Roblynmouth]

This is all good stuff

Sadly the Chief medical officers has advised that the getting up from a chair is not relevant to the workplace, this is planned to reflected in changes to the ESA2008 act.

However on the good news front my claim for ESA was made before any proposed changes so any new changes do not affect me

However it does mean that my Toilet problem has more resonance than my getting out of a chair.

[leemack]

Yes the changes are a bit crazy - as if workers do not need to be able to get up from a chair! Under the current regs they do refer to an appropriate aid. Not sure if they still consider the chair to be without arms or with arms, but this seems irrelevant if you need a special chair in order to be able to stand up.

 

I would say a specialised chair goes beyond aid or reasonable adaptation that can be made in the workplace - for instance the need to have two specially adapted chairs in order to transfer between one to another without assistance - how does the person transfer to the toilet without assistance in the workplace, even if they start from a wheelchair from which they don't have to be able to rise.

 

The definition of 'upright chair' has been determined in a few commissioners decisions for the PCA, and I believe still applies to the esa assessment - though I don't have time to look for them right now, I'll try later. I would have thought it would be relatively easy to win at tribunal with the commissioners definition of upright chair, and pointing out that your assessment was done on an adapted chair. They will also have the benefit of seeing you and how you cope with chairs.

 

Are the DWP actually assessing your worsening condition?

Edited January 2, 2011 by leemack

[Two4Tuesday]

But the DM has said that because my armchair at home [i was WCA/medically assessed at home] has an electric motor and i was able to push the buttons that means i have no problems in standing up or sitting down [oh and move to a second chair, even though the second chair would also have to be fitted with a motor].

 

I'm curious - how do you get in and out of your car? You posted about a NIP for running a red light while you were driving. Does your car seat assist you to get in and out as well?

 

You also claim to have 4 degrees yet can hardly string a coherent post together. I think you're on a windup. Are you yet another oldestrocker/andyandflo alter ego?

Edited January 2, 2011 by Two4Tuesday

[Roblynmouth]

First the Car, i can drive and my wife helps me and out of the car which is automatic, also the seat has a cushion fitted that inflates and turns.

No they wont let me have a second WCA which i requested as the problems of my toilet and temporary paralysis has occurred since my original WCA [ i figured that they are refusing a second WCA is that my points value would go up to around 45 and as i have no control over voiding my bowels that would a definite no no for ability to work etc]. I am also the person who cost the DWP millions in changes to their procedures because of my complaint to the Information Commissioners Office last year, which i won and has cost them loads to put their systems right. So i dont expect them to agree to anything i want.

No my own chair is not an upright its is a recliner armchair fitted with two motors, and no i cannot get upright from a normal upright office chair.

If i am in my motorized scooter i can travel to a loo but cannot use one due to my inability to get up right and transfer myself to the loo, afterwards i am unable to clean myself. I also cannot get out of my scooter unaided

Edited January 2, 2011 by Roblynmouth

[Two4Tuesday]

Thanks. I thought so.

[leemack]

First the Car, i can drive and my wife helps me and out of the car which is automatic, also the seat has a cushion fitted that inflates and turns.

No they wont let me have a second WCA which i requested as the problems of my toilet and temporary paralysis has occurred since my original WCA [ i figured that they are refusing a second WCA is that my points value would go up to around 45 and as i have no control over voiding my bowels that would a definite no no for ability to work etc]. I am also the person who cost the DWP millions in changes to their procedures because of my complaint to the Information Commissioners Office last year, which i won and has cost them loads to put their systems right. So i dont expect them to agree to anything i want.

No my own chair is not an upright its is a recliner armchair fitted with two motors, and no i cannot get upright from a normal upright office chair.

If i am in my motorized scooter i can travel to a loo but cannot use one due to my inability to get up right and transfer myself to the loo, afterwards i am unable to clean myself. I also cannot get out of my scooter unaided

 

Have they given you a decision, or letter saying they refuse to assess you? ie something you can appeal.

 

If not get a letter from your doctor explaining your new issues. Write a letter to the dwp asking for a revision of their decision to support group from the date your condition changed. Once you have an actual decision, you can appeal it and request that both appeals are looked at together. I've never tried it for esa, but its worth asking - you would request this directly from the tribunal service once you have made your second appeal.