advice needed.... landlord not paying mortgage!!

[georgesdragon]

Hi all,

looking for some advice for my parents..

Have found out over the Christmas period that they sold the family home to one of these "we buy your house and you rent it back" schemes a couple of years ago. They then received a letter last week from a building society informing them that the landlord hasn't been paying the mortgage and the house will be repossessed, my parents are not in the best of health and are worried sick. I have tried to contact the landlord but to no avail.

My parents have been paying monthly via direct debit on the 1st of each month and this month the landlord came round in person the following day to ask for next months in cash!

any advice will be greatly appreciated

thanks

[stu007]

Hi georgesdragon

 

sorry to hear about your parents situation but you will need to get all documentation,legal agreements signed by your parents and have a good read as these may explain in more detail your parents situation.

 

It sounds as if this company that is dealing with the we buy your house you rent it back is in some sort of predicament as why else would they come round and ask for cash up front.

 

I would be questioning why they want CASH up front when this is coming out by direct debit for so long with no problem and personally I would not hand over any cash in person.

 

My advice would be to visit your nearest Citizens Advice Bureau taking with you the following:

 

- All documentation/legal agreements between your parents and this company.

- All bank statements showing the Direct Debits going to this Company.

- The letter of reposession from the Building Society.

 

I would also write to the Company concerned asking why they are wanting cash in hand when this is coming out by direct debit and also enclose a copy of the reposession order and ask why this is happening and for a copy of your parents statements to be sent to them.

 

Another thing you could do is an internet search for any details of this company and its goings on.

 

I would do all this pretty fast as the Building Society has gone for reposession for a reason and was the actual letter from the building society addressed to your parents our just the present occupier.

 

Please Please seek immediate advice from the Citizens Advice Buearu or legal representation

[NewSAHD]

Hi, sorry to read of your problems

 

Find out more from the Lender and do so as quickly as you can - and post back here too, of course, if you wish

 

On the face of it it though it seems sadly clear as to what is going on here. So, if you are to deal with the Landlord for any reason (and there seems little point now, to be honest) document everything*

 

First though have a read through

 

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/repossession_by_a_landlords_lender

 

and

 

http://www.cml.org.uk/cml/policy/issues/3719

 

so you can better understand how quickly you may need to move here

 

Sale and rent back schemes get a bad press. I'd imagine you've already been 'googling' this, but links such as http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/mortgages-and-homes/article.html?in_article_id=421501&in_page_id=8&expand=true#StartComments paint a pretty bleak picture - and for whatever it is worth I'm sorry to read how you've all been caught up in this

 

Not sure if CAG allows links, but under the circumstances hope these are all acceptable

 

As quoted in the Shelter link

 

"It is important to be aware that in some cases the court hearing may have already taken place before your tenancy started. If this is the case you will only receive one notice (the second one). It is therefore advisable to take action to delay the eviction as soon as you receive anything in writing. If you cannot work out what stage of the repossession procedure has been reached, get advice (see below)."

The bold is my emphasis, as the formal route to repossession appears to have already started, of course, so time may be tight

 

Also, consider what Shelter also has to say, namely

 

"use publicity - local and national media may be interested to hear about tenants who are the innocent victims of repossession. Publicity may encourage the lender to allow you to stay on."

I mention this as the Lender may already be quickly on the road to repossessing your parent's home - and may well be given possession at a relatively early date, so, you need them 'onside' for you now.

 

Be reasonable and be seen to be reasonable when dealing with the Lender, of course, keeping it firm, fair - and polite. As you may already appreciate you may need to consider how this could be viewed if you do go public in an attempt to resolve this - so do it all in such a way that you can be seen to be the reasonable little guy in all this, perhaps... Sorry if that all sounds like I'm stating the obvious and no offence is intended, but hope that clear, as I'm typing at speed here...

 

How big a problem is this in your area too?

 

A Landlord knocking on a door makes it seem, on the face of it, a small, localised problem, but you never can tell

 

You have the Landlord's name, I take it, is it a Limited Company?

 

If so, you can also check Companies House direct (online at http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/toolsToHelp/WCInfo.shtml and for just a few pounds) as to the general state of the Landlord's company itself (state of last accounts, paperwork/filing up to date etc), with (possible) details of their holdings elsewhere contained within all that - ie helps you to judge, perhaps, how big a problem is this for other people generally

 

Also, once you have the names of the Directors of the Limited Company, you can use other services online (for a fee, inevitably) to see what other Company names they may be trading under and see, perhaps, how much of an issue this could be, again, for others elsewhere

 

That said, fully appreciate your priority is to help your parents, but hopefully all this will help others in a similar predicament. Best of luck though and post again when you can - what you post may well help others too, as grim as it is all doubtless is for you and your own family at the moment

 

My laptop is playing up, so I shall sign off for a little while now, but there are several posters here on CAG who seem to be very helpful and will help you out when and where they can - as Stu007, above, has hopefully already shown - in addition to whatever help you get elsewhere

 

Good luck

 

 

 

*Document even 'phone calls in some way. I've found MP3 players record conversations very well, if needs must - and whilst I've read elsewhere that the recording is not admissable, I understand that a transcript is. There was a post on CAG previously about this

 

The sad reality here though is that you need to be dealing with the Lender direct now anyway, not the (former) Landlord, as you are unlikely to get an honest answer from the Landlord anyway, of course

 

To my mind, regardless of the Landlord's personal circumstances (they too could have a family to provide for, which is not nice to think about) it still stinks that they come knocking on your parent's door, when, doubtless, they already know your parent's home will shortly be repossessed too Sorry, (minor) rant over

 

Post again when you can and I'm sure those who can offer some help will do what they can

Edited December 30, 2010 by NewSAHD
Added the 2 paragraphs that start at "I mention this as the Lender..."

[NewSAHD]

Post above has been edited quite a bit, laptop playing up not helping matters either, hence bump...

[NewSAHD]

Dealing with the possible, imminent repossession aside I hope it also OK to ask how ''good'' a Landlord was the Landlord?

 

If your parents have a gas supply/gas appliances, for instance, were these checked every year, as is legally required?

 

I fully appreciate that this is a side issue in some ways though

 

Once you have read the Shelter and CML links above - and taken whatever other more formal advice you need, it is your parent's home, after all - and dealt with the Lender (not the Landlord) too, you may still need to address these other, day to day 'safety' issues too though

 

Hope all this helps and, as before, good luck

[georgesdragon]

Hi all,

Thanks for all your replies...

Have spoken to my mum and she tells me that they had problems in the summer with the original Direct debit not being collected? they finally managed to get in touch with the landlord who gave them a different account number to pay into. The house is in some state of disrepair and the landlord was going to put new windows, kitchen bathroom in etc but hasnt. Also Im not sure but I think they have had the boiler gas check only done once in the last 3 years. As far as im aware the tenancy is for 10 yrs at £500 a month! Mum has tried to speak to the lender but they said they won't give her any more info.

I live abroad as in British forces so will ask parents if they can get photocopies of documents sent to me via email.

We have contacted CAB and awaiting a call back ref home visit for mum and dad..

Thanks once again

[Surfer01]

Also they need to check if the company is still registered to trade. Surely they cannot be the only ones in this predicament with thsi LL or company? on no account shoudl they hand over any cash as it becomes untraceable. I suspect fraud and they may need to report it to the police as obviously it involves a considerable sum if the place is being repossessed.

[NewSAHD]

If OK with you, post again when you have had sight of the documents. More than happy to comment again once you yourself know more too - as will others, I'm sure. In the meantime, what date are you working to with regards possible repossession - bearing in mind Lender's wheels may already be in motion?

 

I was typing at speed last night, as I am now, but there were some pointers/questions in my posts, so come back on those too, once you've had sight of the papers, of course...

 

As before, good luck too

[georgesdragon]

have a bit more info..

Mum has spoken to lender's solicitor this morning, and the house was purchased in May 07 but the mortgage was taken out in the December 07, he has told mum that they're contract isnt binding as the mortgage was for short term lets only and they have 7 years left to run The company wasnt a limited company and was run by two men who have since spilt from the company. Mum is going to give shelter a call for advice.

The lender are willing to delay matters for a month due to mum's health problems, but have advised her to seek legal advice.

[Surfer01]

"We buy it and you rent it back" doesn't sound as if it should be a short term let. What you are saying does not sound right and there does appear to be something fishy about this. Is the limited company still operating or has it been dissolved? This they need to find our as soon as possible. She is doing the right thing by ringing Shelter. I know it is frustrating for you trying to manage it on their behalf and being overseas. We also have that t-shirt and it is frustrating.

[georgesdragon]

the company wasnt a limited one and she has had no contact from the company since the start of this year.... the landlord solictor told my mum that the partnership had been disolved and she would only be dealing with one landlord from then on, the building society solictor has told mum that the mortgage that was taken out on the house was only granted for short term lets and they didnt know that mum had a long term contract already in situ but they have send its not legally binding .... its so frustrating being miles away and not being able to help.... thanks for replies guys

[NewSAHD]

Stories of "sale and rent back schemes" can make for some pretty grim reading, but (and sorry to state the obvious) this is your parent's home after all. So, if you are agreeable, would you be willing to do some digging on the various parties involved here, from the original 'sale and rent back' pair, their own legal advisors and the Mortgage Company too - with a view to appealing to whatever better nature the latter may have. It sounds like they're not going to assist much beyond delaying matters though, which is a start, I suppose, but how knows which way this will play out (edit: save that be prepared for possession being sought - and obtained - at a relatively early date, sorry)

 

In the meantime you need to clarify who now has responsibility for the management of the property - and once you have this then, at the very least, get the Gas Safety brought up to date too

 

Did you get any indication as to how many others are in a similar situation to your parents as a result of all this?

[Surfer01]

It seems that this may have been a partnership and to be blunt I think your parents have been "done over". This begs the question as to whether the partnership had a credit licence or any associated licence to do with renting the property out.

This is beginning to becoem very invovled now as it is falling outsdie the normal boundaries of limited companies and sole traders etc. I think we will need to wait and see what Shelter have to say in addition to CAB. I think solicitors will need to be involved but do not contact the other side's solicitors as they may not offer the correct advice.

[georgesdragon]

Thanks guys for all your help and info...

mum has been trying to get through to shelter but its engaged, she will keep trying.

My sister is going down today and she is going to get copies of all documents and she will try and speak to the lenders solicitor and ask questions like who is responsible for property management, should my parents keep paying the direct debit etc

mum has also just told me they had a burst pipe two days ago and had to pay a fortune to a emergency plumber, and couldnt get hold of the landlord...Feel this is just the start of the nightmare...

[Surfer01]

Keep the DD in place although it seems that it is not being used to debit the funds. Either way no cashas it seems to be a shady individual that your parents have got themselves involved with. Please advise your sister not to ask for advice from their solicitor as it may be misleading or even confusing.

I would suggest that that she does a Subject Access Request and takes this along to the LL's solicitor with £10 or she posts it by recorded mail for signature. Their solicitor is then bound by law to hand over copies of ALL documents. See here for SAR template letter.

[NewSAHD]

Quick few thoughts, as typing on the fly, hopfully this doesn't duplicate too much what has already been said - or what you already know:

 

a) Firstly, forums such as CAG can be incredibly helpful. I originally came here for feedback on an entirely unrelated matter and was taken aback, in a good way, at the constructive and very useful feedback I received. This was appreciated then and now - hence why I try to return that favour in some way.

 

BUT there is no ignoring independant, professional, and suitably experienced and qualified legal advice. Especially in cases involving something as important as someone's home. That's not to say don't post here - in part, as it may help others - but DO seek more formal advice too

 

b) Moving on, I've seen Surfer01 posts here and elsewhere and he/she seems to offer sensible, well balanced comments (there, got that out of the way!), but I'd be minded NOT to keep the DD going just for now. You musn't upset the Lender though (well, not too much), as you need them onside, if you can.

 

Instead, advise that the rent is going to be held in a separate account just for now, whilst matters are clarified. You can always state, on a without prejudice basis, that you intend to honour your side of the bargain - BUT that the Landlord's actions have left your parents in an invidious position, so are currently seeking advice, with a view to hopefully resolving this to all parties satisfaction in some ways as soon as you all can

 

c) What else? A Limited Company provides the Directors of said Limited Company with, you probably already knew, 'limited' liability to action against the Directors. Partnerships, professional, or otherwise, and sole traders and the like leave themselves much more open to claims against the owners of the (unLimited) Company. So, I'd be collecting as much information on the pair of 'gentleman'.

 

There may be not that much mileage, as the Mortgage Company will already be seeking to recover what they can from them, of course - which could involve a 'forced sale' as soon as possession is obtained in the months to come, which...

 

d) leaves something else to consider, perhaps, is that the pair may have purchased the property a few years back at significantly less than market value, so the Mortgage Company have less donkey work to do, perhaps, to recover their own loss now - so the property may well be put on the market quite cheaply. Hence you may want to keep things on an amicable footing with the Mortgage Company and their advisors, to keep a foot in the door, so to speak... hope that makes some sense, I'm typing at speed here

 

e) As for the recent repair if this was a Landlord's liability then - with the Mortgage Company's approval, if you can - seek to deduct this from next month's rent

 

May well come back to edit this later, but hope this all makes some sense and helps in some way too

[Ell-enn]

Your mum is doing the right thing by contacting Shelter - I know of another couple who are in a similar situation with a couple of "house purchasers". Can you pm me the name of your parents' landlord, it may be the same lot!

[stu007]

Hi Georgesdragon

 

am ex forces myself and another route to help you that you may not have considered being in the forces and overseas is there any Royal British Legion associations or is there

a local Hive as they tend to have info or may be able to get you in touch with someone that may help ease the pressure with trying to deal with this many miles from your parents

with i know is stressful. I would also try and speak to your OC confidentialy as sometimes they have contacts or may be able to try an point you in the right direction for someone to help and advise from your side.

 

Hope this is of help

[NewSAHD]

Another similar case, perhaps, at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?289370-Concerned-about-landlord-s-mortgage&p=3248875&viewfull=1#post3248875 although in the case just linked the mortgage company agent has been knocking on the door - which, to my mind, does not bode well ie the mortgage company in the link just given have been in the dark. Sorry for linking one thread to another, but hope some useful information can be shared between the two...