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Hi and Merry Xmas to all

 

Could somebody please advise me on the following if possible. I have had an MBNA credit card since 2005 which i have obtained an application/credit agreement. The top of the form says your application form then lower down it states virgin credit agreement. This is a one page form with my signature on it and on the reverse is a photocopy of the terms and conditions, so i am pretty sure that it is an unenforcible agreement. The original doc also has a box for PPI which i did not tick but have had deductions for this, i have claimed and got the PPI back but put the account in dispute asking for a true copy of the credit agreement. Since then they have sold the debt on to experto credite, i ignored all their letters texts and phone calls for approx six months until a solicitors letter landed on the door mat. The letter states the usual threats so I decided to send this letter to the solicitors after some research on CAG

 

 

Ref Experto Credite ref

Ref Credit Management Consultants

Ref HL LEGAL LEX

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER

29/11/10

 

 

THIS ACCOUNT IS IN DISPUTE WITH THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR

 

Dear Sirs

 

I refer to your letter of 25th November 2010, the content of which is noted. No debt to your client is acknowledged.

 

I made a formal request to your client pursuant to s.78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The agreement sent does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and would therefore only be enforceable by a court under s65. However, the absence of any prescribed terms on the single page signed agreement means that a court would be prevented from enforcing it under s127(3). It should not be necessary to have to remind solicitors that the provisions of s.78(6) now apply.

 

In the circumstances, you/your client’s threat of legal action would appear to be a breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading Guidance on Debt Collection. Should you or your client bring proceedings, they will be robustly defended, and the Court's attention drawn to the above statutory breaches. Furthermore, I reserve the right to bring the conduct of your client to the Court when the issue of costs is being considered.

 

Yours faithfully

 

D P

 

 

They have responded with this

 

I note your intention to defend any proceedings and that your defense rests on whether the agreement fully conforms to the requirements of the consumer credit act 1974 and not around whether the agreement and the sum exist

 

I confirm that we will bring your letter to the courts attention and that like yourself we shall be seeking costs

 

 

This response has worried me a little and i am wondering if i have made a mistake in the wording of the letter?

i am not sure how to respond from here so any help would be appreciated

 

Thanks

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Hi, busyjerome.

 

I'll move this thread to a more appropriate Forum.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

 
 

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

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RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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Is there any chance you can scan & post up what it is they did send you in relation to your CCA request? Please ensure you remove all ID, barcodes, ref numbers, names. etc.

Here is some reading for you to do, just to double check. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?162851-Consumer-Credit-Agreements-a-guide-to-enforceability

 

Don't worry about it for now, it is not urgent nor should it register on your 'important' list, so whenever you are able to post it up is fine.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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MBNA recently had their wrists well and truely for the content of their letters and their methods, if it were me and I received this, I would probably just laugh and say bring it on, but you and others may feel more concerned and I respect that, however, go with what BB says, nothing is going to happen over the next week or so, and there are ways to defend should it get to that point. Lets take it one step at a time and have a look at what they are relying on.

Every journey begins with a single step :):)

 

Please note: I have no qualifications in this area - my advice is learned from the wonderful members of this Forum. Thanks to you all for your help.

 

If you have found my post helpful please leave a short message by clicking the star to the left of my profile - Thank You

 

The only person entitled to your Personal Finance details is a Judge not a DCA

 

Move all banking activity to another banking group if you have a dispute - your funds can be used to offset debts within the same group.

Be careful with Banking details (card/account numbers) as these can be used to take unauthorised payments.

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Thanks Guys

Just a few things i have missed off, the letter actually came from experto as MBNA have sold it on, i sent the CCA request to MBNA when they had the debt but i have not asked experto but they were the ones that sent the "agreement" i will try to post the agreement up at some stage but this form has none of the following

number of repayments;

(b) amount of repayments;

© frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) dates of repayments;

(e) the manner in which any of the above may be determined;

or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

(From bazookas reading material)

 

The only terms & cons are photo copied on the back

 

Do you think it would be right to send them a CCA request stating that it is not a true copy that they have sent or asking them to confirm whether it exsists or not? im just a little worried that the letter i sent was detrimental to me in some way because of the response and would like to put them on the back foot......what do you think? i would rather stop them in their tracks than defend at court

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I was thinking on the lines of saying

 

The letter sent by myself on *****2010 informs your solicitors that this account is in dispute (Information you may or may not have imparted to HL LEGAL). It also responds to the threat of legal action as HL LEGAL do not seem to have all the facts of this dispute. You have still not produced a true copy and properly executed copy of my 2003 credit agreement so i can inspect it. Could you please confirm that you will be sending the agreement after this second request or if indeed it exists, I will then be able to make a decision how we can proceed.

 

Any thoughts appreciated, my main worries are legal issues on the letters i send really

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  • 2 weeks later...

Once you can scan and post up what they sent you in reply to your request then it will be easier for others to give advice, if it isn't enforceable, or doesn't comply with your request then you can dispute it by sending; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?436-Failure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale.

OR;

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?415-POSSIBLE-Letter-when-a-questionable-agreement-application-is-sent.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Yes i think that seems to have worked :whoo: If somebody could have a peek and let me know if its worked and if i could get an opinion on how to respond that would be great thanks

Edited by busyjerome
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Well the CCA they sent you is certainly a "True Copy" as it is a photocopy of the original document ( although this may only now exist on microfiche). The Terms and Conditions which are part of the agreement and would appear to be the reverse of the document do appear to contain all of the prescribed terms. However I would question the legibility of the document. The fact that it is illegible is sufficient in itself to render it non-compliant, as it is not possible to determine if all the terms prescribed in Schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) are present, since the copy is mostly illegible and does not comply with Regulation 2 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) which states:

 

Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

 

 

Well thats my humble opinion for what it is worth.

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Thanks Griff

I agree the terms in particular are very hard to read and could be the way to defend but i have a few questions if anybody has any thoughts. I have read on this site that the T&C'S have to be on the same page as the signature, is this correct? and at the top of the form it actually states that it is an application form and then further down a credit agreement so i'm not sure which it is. Also i did not sign up for the PPI which they applied and returned after i claimed, do any of these points make the agreement incorrectly executed??

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jerome................So Varde own the debt,did MBNA and Varde Ireland send a letter of Assignment???????????????Further why would you pay Experto who say they act for Varde,I am sure you have not received any confirmation from Varde that they have authorised Experto to act for them,or have had confirmation from Varde they own the debt,if no Assignment from both parties,have a good look at OFT website..........................FS

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busyjerome...............been down this route with Experto myself,write to Experto and tell them you have never heard of them or the company they say they represent Varde,do they think you are stupid.....this is well outside of debt collection guidance for DCAs and refer them to OFT guidelines and suggest they ask their client Varde to produce a Letter of Assignment with the exact date the debt was Assigned,MBNA usually muck up on Assignment dates..............FS

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busyjerome...............been down this route with Experto myself,write to Experto and tell them you have never heard of them or the company they say they represent Varde,do they think you are stupid.....this is well outside of debt collection guidance for DCAs and refer them to OFT guidelines and suggest they ask their client Varde to produce a Letter of Assignment with the exact date the debt was Assigned,MBNA usually muck up on Assignment dates..............FS

 

So am i right in thinking that they have just picked this from a database or something like that as i have not had an assignment letter from MBNA?

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A line in a letter from MBNA stating the debt has been sold is sufficient to comply,if they have not done this they are ignoring the Act that covers the sale of a debt,the argument is that Experto say they represent Varde but Varde have not sent you a letter of Assignment and they must............nothing has been grabbed from a data base...............I am aware there is a link between Varde and Experto because I have researched the 2 companies,no matter they must comply with the guidelines................FS

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usual rubbish from experto & I bet if you send query to Experto they will write to say contacting MBNA, then 10days later a letter of NOA so called MBNA letterhead in a Experto Envelope (you keep), then look at the date of so called NOA? also they MBNA should send a NOA Recorded Delivery to you, (I could send a make up letter to you saying I have bought the interest of the debt so pay me) get it?

:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:
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Yeah sounds like the next step i suppose, if nothing else it is at least a stall. Is there some legislation concerning the date of the NOA? Im not really sure what i will be achieving going down this route, i suppose i'm just establishing that they own the debt, as they claim, and making sure they jump through the hoops of compliance is this the thinking?

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If the account is in dispute and you have notified them that is it,. in as much as trying to collect on a disputed account is against OFT guidelines, ignore We do any calls from them.

 

hanks again for the replies but here is the problem though, originally i put the account in dispute with MBNA as they did not send me the agreement. Then after experto stated that varde had bought the debt they sent me this application form/ agreement so i will ask them for an NOA, which i agree will work in my favor as they have not followed the rules, But i could do with anybody who has a bit more knowledge than i have to check the agreement and situation out as well IE..

.Does the T&C'S being on a separate page as well as illegible( as stated by first)

.Does them adding PPI to it

.Application form on the top of this form

Make the agreement incorrectly executed or unenforceable etc and if so possibly give me a well worded response. I would like to hit them with something substantial rather than keep asking them for agreements, NOA'S etc if possible,

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