PLEASE HELP! Tribunal Edvice for Disclosure & Bundle, Bad Respondent!

[greendollar]

Hi Emma ,

 

Mine is a pretty straight forward case and was only scheduled for one day (now 2 days) . The judge ordered the (phone)CMD as they failed to comply with an Order , this was back in May and theCMD took place in Aug due to a postponement.

The judge had originally ordered the bundle should be no more than 100 pages and they turned up with a bundle in excess of 160 pages , minus all my documents .

Just to give you an idea how rediculous their solicitors are they stated that they didn't know the witness statements we provided were the ones we wished to use and that an amended works roster informing my colleagues that they will have to increase their hours to cover to work I would normally do due to my sacking .....dated and signed by the Area Manager the day BEFORE my disciplinary .... has no relevance.

That and due to the fact they only give us the bundle 2 days before the tribunal didn't go down to well with the judge.

Their solicitor is based in Glasgow and was flown down to the south of England to defend my claim (and they moan they've costs in the region of £15'000 + so far) .

The judge said ' I don't know how they do things in Scotland but in England failing to comply with an Order is taken VERY seriously '

 

It was after the CMD that they then asked for an Order for Costs/Deposit and Wasted Costs Order (they had numerous requests for such Orders already refused) and lied saying that they'd never seen the withess statements/evidence before and that it was our fault the tribunal was abandoned labelling us 'disruptive' accusing us of trying to ambush them with new evidence on the day . All lies and we can show that they had all our statements and evidence for 2 yrs .

 

We were told at the Tribunal by the Regional Manager that they were not going to back down ,no settlement would be made and were going to get their costs .......' to serve as a lesson to any other employee thinking of taking us to a Tribunal '

 

So to them its not about dealing with my unfair dismissal its about deterring colleagues from doing the same , and they have been prepared to throw an enormous amount of money at it to achieve it .

 

In my case it seems being rude , aggressive , stalling , bullying , threatening and lying has all aimed at wearing me down to either drop the case or take a reduced settlement as 2 and half years is a bloody long time to have to listen to the bull**** they continually spew out . I have been tempted just to pack it all in but i take comfort that somebody in that company will have to explain why they have such a large bill to pay when the dust finally settles.

Edited December 27, 2010 by greendollar

[Roblynmouth]

Emma (& the other)

I was involved in a situation where a Housing Association [HA] got rid of me because of my disability, they went down the Gross Misconduct route so as to cover up [ACAS have said that in 100% of all cases where an employer goes down this route it is because they wish to cover up]

They hauled a barrister in to hand me my dismissal notice, after some 7 months of almost daily letters between myself and their Barrister [lord knows at what cost], the HA actually went to the tribunal and asked that the case be found in their favour as they were a charity and that it was very expensive [i kid you not]. Needless to say the Judge did not go with that idea one bit.

So another 5 months pass and my own costs were around £7,000 (i always keep a record in case i get awarded a cost order in my favour)

Went to the Tribunal and the HA settled on the steps for 10K ( they had doctored some security video evidence which showed me walking without a limp or using my stick and got found out by my Brother who at that time worked for a video editing company).

I would have been quite prepared to accept a settlement of £1000 and had said that to them on several occasions.

I have no idea what they were paying their Barrister or how many hours they were billed for? But I was billing at £10ph and £2 for each letter and managed to record £7k

It doesn't surprise me the lengths that employers will go to not only to cover up allegations of discrimination but any other matter that they are taken to an ET for

Just to end this i wrote to the Board of the HA afterwards them being a charity and pointed out that i had offered to settle for £1k at the begging. The HR Director was removed not long afterwards, although i cannot say that was totally down to my actions

 

Either party can ask for a CMD but its down to the Tribunal if they will grant it, however you can appeal against the non issuing if you feel your case is strong enough

 

If they throw the question of costs at you remind them that these matters are at the discretion of the Tribunal and not them moreover that Calderbank offers [this is what they are officially know as] have no place in an ET and that Employment Appeal Tribunals has said previously there is no place for them in the current ET system

Edited December 27, 2010 by Roblynmouth
more addtional advise

[emmap1978]

Hey rebel11, greendollar, Roblynmouth and others -

 

First and foremost, Happy New Year, as it has been awhile.

 

I wanted to provide a quick update on the case I had hitherto brought to the CAG.

 

I was finally contacted by the Respondent's Solicitor (following a 7th missed deadline for Document Disclosure) who was yet again resistant to (1) giving me the final set of documents I requested, (2) agreeing that the documents I provided him be included in the Bundle, claiming again they were not "relevant" (even though I had taken the advice of another poster here and advised them that the question about relevance is for me to prove, not them), and (3) confirming a process for me to examine the original documents they have in their possession, though I have asked 3 times now. And to top it off, they told me basically (not verbatim) that if I didn't like their, that I could go prepare my own Bundle. This seems to run counter to the Tribunal's Disclosure Order, which specifically instructed that the Respondent be responsible for the Bundle.

 

Also, I thought that it was my legal right to request an opportunity to review original documents, so I am very upset about their refusal to provide me that opportunity.

 

Needless to say, not the response I hoped for, but c'est la vie, it is what it is.

 

So, following rebel11's advice, I prepared my message to the Tribunal Chairman to request inclusion of my disputed documents, as well as to request a CMD to raise my concerns. Is there any specific Agenda of what can be requested during a CMD? Also, is there anyone who would be willing to give it a perusal, just to let me know. I'd post it here, but am afraid that if perchance the Respondent's solicitor frequents this forum, they might be able to decipher who I am. So, if someone would contact me directly, I'd be most appreciative.

 

Meanwhile, I've also been desperately trying to ring someone at the Tribunal, however, I have had no luck. I know they are back-logged, but I have made 25 attempts to call the Tribunal in the past 6 weeks, and not once did anyone answer! This morning, the phone rang 38 times before I hung it up! I have also contacted the Tribunal via email, only to receive no reply (other than an automated confirmation). I'll continue reaching out to them, but my hope is withering somewhat.

 

Many thanks for all your help, and hope you'll bear with me just a bit longer. Your assistance is most appreciated.

 

Cheers & Regards,

Emm :oops:

[SarEl]

It isn't entirely surprising that you have had no responses over the last six weeks - like all courts they adjourn for Christmas! Which is a bit longer than most peoples holidays. You should have a court appointed ACAS officer - contact them instead, as they are usually much easier to get hold of. They will also advise you as to whether a further CMD is necessary. THis may be something that they (or they and the judge) can sort out, and tribunals are reluctant to hold further CMD's if possible because it can mean delaying the case. There is only so much time that a tribunal judge has, and if they have to schedule further meetings it almost inevitably means that they have to schedule them in time otherwise allocated for tribunals. But you don't set the agenda of a CMD - so you do not need to prepare an agenda. Speak to your case officer first.

[greendollar]

Hi Emm ,

 

Try not to let it get you down , very hard I know but its just an attempt to grind you down . I'm not sure if this is correct but I understand that the respondants solicitors are under no obligation to hand over the bundle until 7 days before the Tribunal , unless otherwise ordered to do so .

We didn't receive our bundle from the repondants solicitors until 2 days (Fri afternoon) and the Tribunal was on the Mon .

All I can recommend is the course of action we took and take x 6 copies of the documents/evidence you wish to be included in the bundle to the Tribunal and explain to the judge that the respondants solicitor has refused your request that the documents be included .

This will more than likely cause the Tribunal to be abandoned and a date set for a CMD where you will have the opportunity to put your case to the judge about the relevance of the documents and then he/she will order the respondants solicitors to include them .

Unfortunately it seems that the ETS is snowed under with claims which is why you are experiencing problems with them .

As I've already said the respondants solicitors will go all out to stall and threaten you , they will make it as difficult as possible in the hope you just give up .

The Tribunal Service will be well aware of these tactics but will not / cannot intervene to put a stop to the intimidation/harrassement that the respondants solicitors dish out .

 

Chin up , don't let them grind you down .

 

PS ...2 and half years I've been going through the same (and worse) 4 weeks to go (fingers crossed)

Edited January 25, 2011 by greendollar

[greendollar]

Me again ,

 

Just a thought , in my case the respondants solicitor accused us of trying to ambush them at the Tribunal with new evidence , luckily we could prove through previous correspondance that the documents we were refering to had been in their possession for over 2 yrs .

It would be worth sending , if you haven't already ,their solicitors all the documents you are requesting be put in the bundle to them by recorded delivery .

That way they can't deny ever seeing them before as they will lie to the Tribunal and label you ' disruptive '.