CCA returned by LLoyds/TSB

[lancydancy]

Hi all,

 

I sent the prove it letter along with £1 postal orders to all my creditors on 1st December, I have had one reply from Lloyds TSB today saying:

"Unfortunately we are unable to accept these payments as you have requested documents for accounts we do not manage, please find your cheques enclosed.

If you do require documentation for a loan account, please confirm the loan agreement number and return the cheque to be represented. Cheques should be made payable to Lloyds TSB (a/c Eisis)."

 

I don't understand! I though the prove it letter had to go to the original creditor? The accounts (which are credit cards) are currently with Robinson Way, but as far as I'm aware, they have not been sold.

 

Do I just do the same again now and send to Robinson Way?

[buzby]

Did you send it to Lloyds TSBS Credit Cards office, along with the Card Number? Tht's usually all they need, along with your signature to confirm you are the cardholder.

[lancydancy]

I sent it to Lloyds TSB's Debt Recovery dept which is where I've always sent any letters and payments to. The letter I recieved back was not from the same address.

[lancydancy]

And yes, I included the card number.

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

You have me confused. Did you send the 'prove it' letter or a CCA request? The £1 goes with the CCA request

[lancydancy]

sorry, it was the CCA request.

[silverfox1961]

This has happened before where a creditor has sold the account to a DCA and when you CCA them they say they have no obligation to you as the account is closed, forcing you to CCA the DCA instead. Ruddy silly IMO as the DCA will just go the the OC anyway

[lancydancy]

I thought they had to notify me if they had sold the debt?

[UnitedFront]

They should notify you but very rarely do. Send the CCA request to whatever DCA is chasing you.

 

Don't sign the request, you're under no obligation to do so. If you want to put something there, then use a digital signature.

 

As said above, kind of stupid since the DCA will only go back to the OC anyway, but that's the way the game works.

 

You might get some guff back about them requiring a signature to confirm who you are, but they have no right to demand a signature specifically. You can satisfy the identity requirements in many, many other ways. I've had the exact same argument with DCA's and OC's many times in the past and we've always got our way in the end and proved identity with other means or they've just given up and provided the requested information without a signature or any other evidence.

 

Cheers

UF

[Tingy]

I would go as far as saying do not supply a signature. Even a CCA request does not have to be returned with a signature for it to comply with the law.

 

It should be sent to whoever actually owns the debt.

[buzby]

Pointless, as well as self-defeating.

 

In order to comply with the DPA, the finance house need proof that the applicant is indeed the data subject. A signature provides this verification, and a refusal does not. Therefore, I would be most annoyed if someone misrepresented the application and did not prove who they were to a reasonable level of proof.

[Tingy]

Pointless, as well as self-defeating.

 

In order to comply with the DPA, the finance house need proof that the applicant is indeed the data subject. A signature provides this verification, and a refusal does not. Therefore, I would be most annoyed if someone misrepresented the application and did not prove who they were to a reasonable level of proof.

 

I couldn't disagree more! There is a requirement to satisfy themselves of your real identity which is fair enough, but there are many other ways than a signature to do this. I'm not for one moment saying don't supply a reasonable level of proof as to your identity, but I wouldn't give them my signature. I cannot see any reason why another perfectly acceptable method of POI should annoy anyone.

[buzby]

By all means disagree, but just how do you prove it is you? What reasonable level of proof do you believe identifies you and you alone ascend applicant?

 

For good measure, why not expand on why you believe a signature should be avoided?

[UnitedFront]

Buzby they do need to satisfy themselves as to the ID of the person making a request but this does NOT need to be a signature!!!!!

 

You can prove your identity in numerous other ways and I wouldn't trust a DCA with my signature for love nor money!!! There is NOTHING that says that for a cca request they need your signature specifically and any person is within their right to not wish to divulge such to any company they fear, for whatever reason, may be less than reputable!!!

 

UF

[UnitedFront]

I never send a signature because it is not unknown for unscrupulous companies to adopt modern technology to cut/copy/paste such onto other letters/documents in order to appear as restarting stat barred clock etc.

[buzby]

Forgive the repitition, but what are those 'numerous ways'?

 

The reason why there's nothing stating there needs to be a signature is the same reason they don't say you should place a stamp on your envelope. It's called stating the bleedin' obvious!

 

Perhaps you think nothing about unsigned letters, but I treat them with contempt (and with the same respect as, say, someone calling me and withholding their telephone number). If they cannot provide confirmation of who sent it, it goes in the bin.

 

If you don't mind wasting a stamp, fine. But they will legitimately reject your application, and any complaint will be devalued because of this.

[Tingy]

The following are acceptable by the DVLA for a driving license:

 

If you’ve reached State Pension age, you can provide originals of one of the following in your name:

• recent (within three months) bank or building society statement showing your pension payment and National Insurance number
  
• BR2102, BR2103 or BR5899 letter confirming your eligibility for the State Pension
  

UK birth and adoption certificates

UK birth and adoption certificates can also be used, however, as they are not absolute proof of identity, they must be accompanied by one of the following:

 

• National Insurance card or a letter from the Department for Work and Pensions containing your National Insurance number
  
• photocopy of the front page of a benefits book or an original benefits claim letter
  
• P45, P60 or pay slip
  
• marriage certificate or divorce papers (decree nisi or absolute)
  
• college or university union card or school record
  

Many companies will also accept utility bills, bank statements etc....

 

I take the view the fewer people who have my signature the better as there is less chance of it being lifted onto another document making it look as though you signed it. This occurs quite commonly now as I'm sure you know Buzby.

 

It is of course entirely up to the OP, but like you, I'm just trying to help.

[buzby]

All ripe for fraud! All I need do is intercept your mail for a short period and I've enough to stitch you up, without you doing a thing! Pretty cool, huh? If your signature doesn't match what they have already, you have them by the short and cur lies!

 

Do remember, many of these firms already HAVE your signature, so this additional copy is valid identification. It is often erroneously cited that refusal to supply prevents 'misuse', but this is nonsense. Does a firm need the additional hassle of a complaint of forgery (a criminal charge) by copying as you suggest? As most will attest, fake signatures usually look nothing like their owner's actual script. As for copying, even better! You can point to the signature provided on whatever date being used either as a cut'n'paste or template, again gives them a greater headache than they have already.

 

Like my date of birth, I vary my signature and can spot which is mine and which is fake - you give them too much credibility and foster needless paranoia, all serving no useful purpose.

[Tingy]

In your opinion. Of course as often happens on here different people have differing opinions. If the OP wants to supply a signature, fine. If they do not, there are plenty of other ways to prove identity - that's all I'm saying.

[UnitedFront]

As above, you're entitled to your opinion Buzby. Forum - open public debate. Points have been put across, you've had your say. All I can say is that I've personally seen a photoshop job pulled on someone, so I don't consider it paranoia but rather prudent observation.

Edited December 20, 2010 by silverfox1961
removed personal insults

[silverfox1961]

The debate about the pros and cons of sending signatures was very interesting but please don't let it drop into personal insults. People have different opinions and they should be respected, not ridiculed. If you disagree, say so and leave it at that.

[buzby]

Still awaiting a sensible alternative to a signature to be suggested. Or how a refusal to supply one helps in the slightest. As for photoshopping - heck, this could be done with a photocopier or carbon paper prior to this, but the poin remains, without one, the data subject has no complaint if his instructions are ignored. No point cutting off your nose to spite your face!

[Tingy]

Buzby - there is little point in continuing with this. It is up to the OP at the end of the day - two lots of advice have been given, they can decide. We want to work together here, not against each other!

[buzby]

Sorry you think it not worthy to sustain the debate in any meaningful way by providing a viable alternative proof of identity. It would therefore be lamentable to advise anyone not to provide a signature, simply on 'principle', when that self-same scrawl provides the mechanism to protect your information being disclosed. Fingerprints were tried a few years ago - (voluntarily!) - but it died a death for different reasons. Folk did not understand that their print was contained within the contract alone, not copied off to be used for the next convenient robbery.

[Tingy]

It's not a case of not thinking the debate worthy. I just don't think this thread is the right place for it. We have both stated our opinions and another has had their say. The OP now can decide what they wish to do and whatever they choose, will I hope have our full ongoing support from this site. I will not post again unless related directly to the OP, this is not giving up or admitting defeat, purely trying to help the OP with their original problem.

 

It is very unusual for you and I to disagree as we usually offer very similar advice. Occasionally there are bound to be differences of opinion, but these should not stop us helping the OP to resolve their issue. Let them decide, then we can move forward together to help them.