DG Solicitors are challenging my County Court defence

[Mihail]

I have a similar case to Chelsea 101's post, below

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?279266-claim-form-from-northampton-county-court-DG-solicitors&highlight=DG+Solicitors+County+Court+Claim

 

Following a NCC Bulk Claim from DG (Dead Grim) Solicitors

I used two defences from CAG

1 My account is in dispute because of an earlier action by me that nearly half the amount in the current claim are disputed bank charges,and although DG cites the Supreme Court Decision December last year as invalidating all customer bank charges claims, I continued the action via a Claims Management Company (now in receivership) and once my papers have been forwarded from the Insolvency Service, I will continue this bank charges reclaim

Dumb Grown know this yet persisted with the County Court Claim.

2 I have questioned the new contract-consolidation , managed loan or whatever and under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of the document mentioned in your Particulars of Claim.

DG/HSBC failed to supply this in the time allowed BUT

on the day of the N150 Allocation Questionnaire deadline last week, they filed an AQ to the Court and sent me a letter this week apologising for the delay in replying to my CPR requests out of time, saying they are waiting for a copy of the agreement from HSBC.

 

Are DG just doing this to curry favour with the court or are they still trying to 'frustrate proceedings'?

 

What is my next response?

Advice please

[rebel11]

Hi Mihail

 

I would get a copy of there Allocation Questionnaire, you need to have all the information that they present.

[Mihail]

Hi Rebel11

 

They very kindly included their AQ in their last letter to me.

Without giving much in the way of detail, they did say they would be bringing a bank official as witness and that their costs would be nearly £5000.

Intimidation tactics?

[frettful38]

Hi Mihail what sort of account do you have? Is it for a credit card or bank account?

[Mihail]

Bank account. But it was one of those 'managed loan accounts' that HSCB imposed on some customers, consolidating 3 former accounts of mine-current, savings and loan- into one.

[sillygirl1]

Use the CPR Rules and ask them for full cost details, you are entitled to that information - it is intimidatory tactics if the claim is under £5,000.

[Mihail]

Hi Sillygirl

 

The claim (disputed) is for over £10.000, nearly half of which is bank charges.

What CPR do I use?

Is there a link for a template?

[Mihail]

HELP NEEDED

I wrote to the Court late December with my Defence (see post above 17 December.) First Direct/Dire Greed Solicitors as Claimants, Myself as Defendant with a given Claim Number

 

I got this letter from the Court today, with Myself as Claimant, FD/DG as Defendants and a different Claim number:

 

UPON reading the court file

AND it being settled law that:-

(1) sums of money payable to their banks by customers pursuant to their banking contracts and in parlicular but

without prejudicet o the generalityh ereof sumsp ayablei n respecto f unauthorisedo verdraftsa rep roperly designated

as "charges" and are not contractual penalties; and

(2) that there is no power under regulation 6(2)b of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations

1999( asa mended)t o assessth e fairnesso f thosec hargesa se xpressedin cleara ndi ntelligible languagein relation

to the adequacy of the price or remuneration as against the services supplied in exchange and whether at the behest

of the OFT or the bank customer as an individual

AND UPON a review of the file and the Particulars of Claim

AND pursuant to CPR 3.4

OF THE COLIRT'S OWN INITIATIVE

IT IS ORDERED thAt:-

1) The stay on the claim be removed forthwith.

2) As the Particularso f Claim no longer disclosea ny reasonableg roundsf or bringing the claim that statemento f

case is hereby struck out.

3) The claimant may within 14 days of the deemed date of service upon him of this order apply to the court to set

aside vary or stay this order whether in whole or in part pursuant to CPR 3.3(5).

Dated1 February2 011

 

What does this mean?

Has the Court made a mistake, what has happened to the original Claim Number and Claimant and Defendant ?

I am confused?

If the Court is correct, what do you think of their legal arguments?

 

Answers quickly please, I may have only 2 weeks for a response?

 

Thanks in advance

[Mihail]

Please disregard yesterdays post, CAGers.

I called the CC today, thoroughly confused, and Listings told me that the Judgement letter -posted above- related to a bank charges action brought (with help from CAG) in 2007, correspondence which is now in the hands of CCR liquidators.

Thus it was an entirely separate case.

Listings have no news on this latest one.

Sorry about that.

[Mihail]

After a delay of over 2 months to my CPR requests, Dead Grim wrote to me this week with the original agreement and outlining the reasons they think the disputed balance owed, nearly 50% of which is charges, and their switching of my account to a Managed Loan is true and fair.

 

They are suggesting an extended stay, if agreed by both sides, to try and reconcile the differences.

 

I have uploaded their latest correspondence here, including a crowing letter from First Direct following the collapse of the OFT bank charges case in December 2009.

http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/leonardo4455/First%20Direct%20DG%20Case%202011/

 

Response needed.

Any suggestions CAGGers?

Thanks in advance

[Mihail]

Anyone out there?

[The Mould]

After a delay of over 2 months to my CPR requests, Dead Grim wrote to me this week with the original agreement and outlining the reasons they think the disputed balance owed, nearly 50% of which is charges, and their switching of my account to a Managed Loan is true and fair.

 

They are suggesting an extended stay, if agreed by both sides, to try and reconcile the differences.

 

I have uploaded their latest correspondence here, including a crowing letter from First Direct following the collapse of the OFT bank charges case in December 2009.

http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/leonardo4455/First%20Direct%20DG%20Case%202011/

 

Response needed.

Any suggestions CAGGers?

Thanks in advance

 

They are asking you to sign a consent order, such a move as this by the claimant is always suspect.

 

If his claim cannot be challenged by your defence, why does he ask you to guarantee success for his claim by signing the consent order?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[Mihail]

Thanks Mould.

Are DG actually trying to be helpful by suggesting an extended stay, thereby, as they say, giving me more time to read their documents and seek further advice?

Or am I being naive?

[The Mould]

Thanks Mould.

Are DG actually trying to be helpful by suggesting an extended stay, thereby, as they say, giving me more time to read their documents and seek further advice?

Or am I being naive?

 

I do not know the full case details Mihail, but you should inspect those documents that the claimant has supplied, to see find out what are his strongest and weakest arguments against your defence.

 

Are you up to date with all your documentation that you needed to file/serve, if yes, then let the claimant make the next move, don't sign any consent order for the claimant.

 

Have you telephoned the court to ask what the status of these proceedings are as they presently stand? If not, try and call the court on the morrow.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[Mihail]

Thanks Mould.

 

The documents supplied were an Agreement Form to the controversial Managed Loan, a Default Notice and a Final Demand for the balance (charges included) outstanding.

Would it help if I posted these?

Other than that, the letter from FD I posted concluding that post the Supreme Court decision, all bank charges were legally justified.

That i assume is their defence.

I could also post my defence, on three grounds-CPR request default, account in dispute and contract (Managed Loan) questioned, if that would help.

I have already sent this to the Court.

 

I telephoned Listings on Friday and the officer said the District Judge would look favourably on an extended stay in this case.

She also said if DG delayed their response about the stay, the DJ does not put any time limit on their (DG's) delaying. We would just have to wait.

[Mihail]

To the Mould and other CAGers

Re my defence:

This is a Repudiation Letter I sent to Deatlhy Glum on 27 October re my Managed Loan switch

 

 

DG Solicitors, 12 Calthorpe Road, Edgbaston, Birmingham, B15 1QZ

 

27 October 2010

ACCOUNT NUMBER: FIRST DIRECT

Dear Sirs

 

This is a short letter to you the claimant’s Solicitors and the claimant to state that I accept your repudiation of the agreement made in 2006, that superseded the original bank account and the subsequent terms & conditions of the said account (the subject of the claimant's claim) between the two parties in this action and the terms & conditions thereof.

 

The agreement pre 2006, a copy of which you have so far failed to supply following my letter of request dated 20 October ult. under Civil Procedure Rules 31.14, was nulled when your client First Direct informed me that they were consolidating my accounts into one ‘managed loan’, keeping the same account number but without any banking option for me, the customer.

A ‘managed loan’ where I was not made aware of my rights regarding this new loan and as such therefore a loan I believe to be missold.

 

I hereby state that the claimant is in serious breach of the said agreement, fundamental breach of contract by him and that I accept his repudiation of the said agreement, which in law (The Law of Contract) entitles me (the non-breaching party) to treat my obligations under the said agreement as discharged.

 

The claimant has no real prospect of success for his claim, therefore the fundamental breach of the 2007 agreement [is] sufficiently problematic to warrant discontinuance of proceedings and I respectfully request that you as the Solicitors advise him of this fact

 

Yours

[Mihail]

URGENT . Help needed please.

DG have just written to me 3 March saying they are moving to have my Defence struck out at the County Court draft directions hearing set for March 16-that's 10 days time!

I've uploaded the latest bullying, intimidatory letter from DG as well as the Draft Directions, my draft defence on three grounds: 1account in dispute, 2 agreement repudiated and 3 DG in default of CPR 31.14 time set for information

http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/leonardo4455/

 

The Mould and other CAGers: please read uploads and advise in the next 7 days if you can.

Thanks in advance.

[The Mould]

URGENT . Help needed please.

DG have just written to me 3 March saying they are moving to have my Defence struck out at the County Court draft directions hearing set for March 16-that's 10 days time!

I've uploaded the latest bullying, intimidatory letter from DG as well as the Draft Directions, my draft defence on three grounds: 1account in dispute, 2 agreement repudiated and 3 DG in default of CPR 31.14 time set for information

http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/leonardo4455/

 

The Mould and other CAGers: please read uploads and advise in the next 7 days if you can.

Thanks in advance.

 

Hello Mihail

 

You have Natwest and RBS letters in those attachments, I thought the claimant was HSBC?

 

Anyway, no substantive action is likely to be decided at a directions hearing. Said hearing is to mainly focus on discussing and deciding the procedural steps that are necessary to take litigation forwards.

 

If the claimant's Solicitors wish to make any applications, then the Judge may give further directions in respect of the manner in which and the date by which that is to be done.

 

Said hearing will relate to service of Statements of Case (pleadings, formerly), disclosure of documents, service of witness statements etc, etc.

 

Why didn't the claimant make an application to strike out your defence and apply for Summary Judgment after you declined to sign the consent order??????

 

Make sure you attend said hearing.

 

How comparable is your case to 'chelsea101's'?

 

Do you have your copy (the original) of the Default Notice?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[Mihail]

Apologies Mould and others, I have just reorganised the Photobucket folders to include drafts for my Defence (as stated 3 grounds at present) and have uploaded the 12 February 2006 Default Notice you requested

The correct link is here

http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/leonardo4455/First%20Direct%20DG%20Case%202011/

Re Chelsea 101's case, I am subbing

 

Mihail

[The Mould]

Apologies Mould and others, I have just reorganised the Photobucket folders to include drafts for my Defence (as stated 3 grounds at present) and have uploaded the 12 February 2006 Default Notice you requested

The correct link is here

http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/leonardo4455/First%20Direct%20DG%20Case%202011/

Re Chelsea 101's case, I am subbing

 

Thank you for that Mihail

 

With reference to the Default Notice served; the 12 February 2006 is a Sunday, at the time of the notice being issued, the period that the creditor must allow for you to remedy was set at 7 clear days, however, if the claimant cannot prove class of service, then it must be assumed as being sent 2nd class, so if put in the post on Monday 13 Feb 2006, delivery 4 days = Friday 17 feb 2006, so count 7 clear (Mon to Fri) from Monday 20 Feb 06 = Tuesday 28 Feb 06.

 

They want you to amend your defence and then they want to file a response to your full defence.

 

Both parties are going to attend a directions hearing and that is all, if they want your defence struck out, then they need to make an application into court to do that.

 

How many comparators are there between your case and chelsea's?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

 

Mihail

 

Well, it's getting late now, do you know what you are arguing with, have you been doing your research on your defence Mihail? If not, then get on top of what you are contending with.

[Mihail]

Thanks for that, Mould

By comparators, do you mean similar particulars of case?

If so the number of comparators are two: first I too got into financial difficulties, in my case after recovery from a cancer op in October 2005 (have medical proof)

Second the FD action at the time was also to convert all my accounts-current, revolving credit, credit card, savings, into a Managed Loan account

 

I am researching my Defence as best I can, and your/fellow CAGers guidance in this is much appreciated

 

Kind regards

Mihail

[The Mould]

Thanks for that, Mould

By comparators, do you mean similar particulars of case?

If so the number of comparators are two: first I too got into financial difficulties, in my case after recovery from a cancer op in October 2005 (have medical proof)

Second the FD action at the time was also to convert all my accounts-current, revolving credit, credit card, savings, into a Managed Loan account

 

I am researching my Defence as best I can, and your/fellow CAGers guidance in this is much appreciated

 

Kind regards

Mihail

 

Mihail, I mean what happened before the proceedings commenced? Did HSBC abandon the contract like in chelsea's case?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[The Mould]

Mihail, can you please post up the claimant's Particulars of Claim.

 

I would like to see his POC's that you responded to with the defence he wants you to withdraw and re-plead in full to his said POC's. He brought the claim, he wants you to amend your defence and then he wants to respond with his amended Statement of Case (pleadings), however, you must insist that he files and serves his fully particularized Particulars of Claim first and then you shall file and serve your sufficiently particularized defence to his claim.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[Mihail]

Hello Mould and other CAGers

 

I have just uploaded the Claimant's POC

http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/leonardo4455/First%20Direct%20DG%20Case%202011/

 

Regarding comparison with Chelsea's case, I do not know whether HSBC/FD abandoned the contract in my case, the proposal for Managed Loan was put to me over the telephone and a new contract produced and sent to me.

Does that mean the old contract was abandoned?

 

An update today is I called the CC listings to enquire whether they had heard from DG and had they received their Draft Directions.

The answer was no to both , although they confirmed the Directions hearing on 18 March.

Listings rather curiously said, when asked by me why the District Judje (DJ) had not replied to my letter on 22 December (where I had expressed concerns that by not following my CP requests, DG were attempting to frustrate proceedings) that the DJ had read my letter and his only response had been to order a Directions Hearing.

I said I would have appreciated a more direct acknowledgement of my letter.

 

Kind regards

Mihail

[The Mould]

Hello Mould and other CAGers

 

I have just uploaded the Claimant's POC

http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/leonardo4455/First%20Direct%20DG%20Case%202011/

 

Regarding comparison with Chelsea's case, I do not know whether HSBC/FD abandoned the contract in my case, the proposal for Managed Loan was put to me over the telephone and a new contract produced and sent to me.

Does that mean the old contract was abandoned?

 

An update today is I called the CC listings to enquire whether they had heard from DG and had they received their Draft Directions.

The answer was no to both , although they confirmed the Directions hearing on 18 March.

Listings rather curiously said, when asked by me why the District Judje (DJ) had not replied to my letter on 22 December (where I had expressed concerns that by not following my CP requests, DG were attempting to frustrate proceedings) that the DJ had read my letter and his only response had been to order a Directions Hearing.

I said I would have appreciated a more direct acknowledgement of my letter.

 

Kind regards

Mihail

 

OK Mihail

 

Can you scan it the new agreement please.

 

When was said new agreement formed, before your illness or after?

 

In the chelsea case, a new agreement/contract was formed between the two parties. This new contract superseded the original contract, chelsea was to repay the debt at a set rate of payment until the debt had been paid off, however, a year later the creditor sent chelsea a new contract to agree to and sign and return, chelsea did not consent to this further contract and so the said second contract remained and therefore the creditor and chelsea were still bound by the terms to it. The creditor then abandoned said second contract and invoked the original contract that had been terminated by was of consensus between the two parties, the creditor has issued a claim against chelsea under the terms and conditions of a contract that was legally extinguished, further, the creditor in the chelsea case has no cause of action to bring his claim against chelsea for it was the creditor who repudiated said second contract when he abandoned it without just cause.

 

So Mihail, do the above circumstances compare to your case?

 

The claimant has brought the claim, you filed a defence based on his Particulars of Claim, he wants you to file an amended and sufficiently particularized defence to his said POC's and in response he says he will then file/serve his amended and fully particularized statement of case (poc's). The claimant must file/serve his amended pleadings first Mihail, then you can file/serve your amended and fully pleaded defence, the process is not how the claimant says it is to be, so don't let him take unfair advantage of you at the directions hearing or at any time during these proceedings for that matter.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould