Landlord won CCJ by default (unknown to me), now threatening bailiffs!!

[ploddertom]

Thanks! So what if he hasn't obtained a warrant of execution? Presumably he could go and get that any time he likes? Yes he can - it will cost him £100 which he will try to add to your bill. However easily dealt with when it happens - the Court Bailiff usually writes to you first. If the debt is for over £600 then he could transfer it up through the High Court into a Writ of Fi Fa and employ High Court Enforcement Officers, this is a different ball game as they just turn up but again you can deal with them by applying for a Stay of Execution.

 

The main thing I want to do is try and stop any enforcement of the original judgement until after the set aside application is dealt with. Is there any way this can be done?

 

PT

[spurious]

Thanks again for being so helpful; it's much appreciated. One last question...

 

Could he employ non court-appointed, private bailiffs? Presumably they'd also need a warrant of execution from the court, but if he's got that already they could just turn up?

 

The problem is that the landlord has insisted on using an old address where I don't live, despite me telling him I don't live there and providing my current address. That will form the basis of my application to set this aside, along with a threat of legal action for harassment if he continues to use an address he knows I am not at.

 

My concern is that he'd employ bailiffs to call at this address before I get chance to stop enforcement of the judgement. From what you've said, that would only be likely to happen if he already has a warrant of execution and has appointed bailiffs that aren' t affiliated with the court.

[ploddertom]

Thanks again for being so helpful; it's much appreciated. One last question...

 

Could he employ non court-appointed, private bailiffs? Only if he transfers up to the High Court, if he stays with a WoE then it is the Court Bailiff. Presumably they'd also need a warrant of execution from the court, but if he's got that already they could just turn up?

 

The problem is that the landlord has insisted on using an old address where I don't live, despite me telling him I don't live there and providing my current address. That will form the basis of my application to set this aside, along with a threat of legal action for harassment if he continues to use an address he knows I am not at. Depends on how long ago you advised him of your move, sounds as if he may deliberately used an old address to guarantee Judgment, after all the Court can only go by what they are told.

 

My concern is that he'd employ bailiffs to call at this address before I get chance to stop enforcement of the judgement. From what you've said, that would only be likely to happen if he already has a warrant of execution and has appointed bailiffs that aren' t affiliated with the court.

 

PT

[spurious]

An UPDATE on this case...

 

The Court has decided, on the basis of a provisional defence I submitted along with my application to set-aside, to conduct a hearing regarding my application to get the Judgement set aside. As part of my application for this, I sent the Court letters showing that I had advised the claimant of my new address, which he deliberately didn't use. I also attached a copy of my current tenancy agreement as evidence of my current address.

 

The Claimant has written to my current landlord to tell him that I owe him money, and sent him the original Judgement Order, the tenancy agreement I copied to him and a letter from me to the Court. He is asking my landlord to confirm that I really am at my current property. I couldn't believe it. Surely by doing that he's broken some kind of data protection law? I intercepted the mail, which came damaged (i.e. open) to my address. It's one thing to ask a landlord to verify my tenancy, but quite another to send him private documents and letters that weren't even addressed to him, let alone my landlord!

 

I'd like to use this letter in the hearing to demonstrate the behaviour of the claimant. Can anyone advise what laws he may have broken, and how I can best represent that?

 

Thanks everyone

[debbbbsy]

The Claimant has written to my current landlord to tell him that I owe him money, and sent him the original Judgement Order, the tenancy agreement I copied to him and a letter from me to the Court.

He has clearly divulged personal data to a third party not directly involved in these proceedings. I'm not sure what law he has broken, but I'm sure more help will come. keep all the documents, and write to your current landlord & ask what impact this has had on your relationship. You could counter sue for damages when the CCJ is set a side.

 

against me for rent he claims was owed back in 2005

When exactly has he stated you defaulted on your rent. If it goes beyond 6 years, it becomes Statute Barred. Edited March 18, 2011 by debbbbsy
put if instead of when

[spurious]

My ex-landlady of a property I moved from last month is claiming unpaid rent which I dispute. She is claiming we had an agreement whereby I would pay money that there is no contract or agreement in place to demonstrate I am liable for.

 

Today I have received an email in which she states she will contact my employers within 72 hours to tell them I've defaulted on rent and that she is taking me to court. She justifies this by saying that 'my employers' provided a character reference (actually, one person from my workplace did this, but did not represent anyone in doing so). She states she will then pursue a small claims court case against me.

 

Now, I'm not terribly bothered about the court action because with no contract and no agreement, she won't have a leg to stand on, but contacting my employers will obviously have an impact on my reputation at work and standing in the eyes of my management.

 

I'd like to send her back a stern rebuke - can anyone let me know precisely what she's doing wrong from a legal standpoint?

[45002]

Is this the same LL you had problems and court action in some of your previous posts !

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?287149-Landlord-won-CCJ-by-default-%28unknown-to-me%29-now-threatening-bailiffs!!&p=3227704&viewfull=1#post3227704

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?243803-Landlord-Taking-Legal-Action&p=2720735&viewfull=1#post2720735

Edited December 4, 2012 by 45002

[spurious]

No it's not.

[Steve__M]

Is this a lodging contract or did you rent a whole property (house or flat)?

 

On what date did you move in? Did you pay rent - if so how much and how often? Did you pay a deposit?

 

When you left the property, did you give any notice? And if so when did you give notice and was it written notice?

 

Unless you were a squatter there must have been some sort of "agreement". In absence of a contract the above information plus the usual rules relating to tenancy contracts would establish your responsibilities.

 

What is the LL claiming?

[spurious]

Hi Steve,

 

This was a lodging contract for a single room. Notice was given and agreed, and the deposit returned. During my time in the property, both the LL and myself were bound by a standard assured shorthold tenancy agreement.

 

There was an informal agreement between myself and the landlord that the rent for the first part of the month I left would be paid at the end of that month, after I had moved out. This is the figure in dispute - the LL is claiming it's owed, however the deposit returned was less than that given and I have only paid the difference, leaving a figure the LL says is owed, but which I say is not.

[stu007]

Hi

 

IMO if the landlord does as stated contact your employers within 72 hours to tell them you have defaulted on rent and that landlord is taking me to court.

 

The contract is between you and your landlord and nothing to do with your employer and any claim dispute etc is between you and your landlord and that the landlord still has to comply with the DPA.

 

Dears Sir/Madam

 

Further to your email dated 05/12/2012 in which you state the following:

 

"you will contact my employers within 72 hours to tell them I've defaulted on rent and that she is taking me to court".

 

I must now clarify the following:

 

1. I have made you fully aware that at present I dispute your claim.

2. This is a Civil matter between you my Landlord and myself and nothing to do with my Employer.

3. Under which part of the Data Protection Act does is state that you as my Landlord are allowed to carry out the actions of informing my employer

 

As stated a Civil matter and nothing to do with my employer if you do carry out your percieved action of informing my employer, I will have no choice but to raise this issue of a breach of the DPA with the Information Commissioners Office.

[spurious]

Thanks, and I agree. Quite aside from the legitimacy or otherwise of my LL's claims, I don't see what legal basis he'd have to contact anyone other than me or - if he feels so inclined - the court.

 

I know the DPA applies to organisations and companies, but surely it must also apply in this context. It just feels absurd that he'd contact someone I work for and disclose such personal information. I've no idea what can possibly be served by doing that, other than to use it as a threat of harassment.

[stu007]

Hi

 

I have to agree with what you have said now have a wee look at this link from ICO may be of use

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_the_public/topic_specific_guides/housing/landlords.aspx

[Steve__M]

Lodging contracts can be pretty informal. Even if an AST was used to define the contract, I do not think the strict AST rules apply (which results in some people owing more than they think they did)

 

So in short, if you think the correct amount of money was paid in proportion to the time you stayed for the final month, I'd write:

 

"You have withheld X of my deposit which covers rent for period 1st-Yth of November. This was as agreed between us. If you dispute this, please give your reasons in writing.

 

Do not contact my employee. As well as being highly unethical and tantamount to blackmail, I will regard such action as a breach of the Data Protection Act, defamation of my character and interference with contract between myself and my employee."

 

Personally I doubt whether DPA applies to lodging arrangements - but LL may not know that so the point is somewhat moot.

 

By the way, this sentence didn't quite make sense. I've assumed you mean that the LL has already deducted the amount you think was owed?

 

 

- the LL is claiming it's owed, however the deposit returned was less than that given and I have only paid the difference, leaving a figure the LL says is owed, but which I say is not.

[spurious]

I'm going to number these points to make it easier to follow. My landlord has taken a certain irreversible path, and my question here is what can I do to minimise the damage, and what counter-action can I take, including but not limited to reporting him to any regulatory body.

 

1. I lived in shared property for just short of three months, leaving mid way through the last calendar month. This arrangement was governed by an AST.

2. An informal agreement was made by email that the final few days of my tenancy would be paid for at the end of that calendar month, three weeks after I had moved out.

3. A few days later, my deposit was returned, less money deducted for unsubstantiated bills.

4. When the end of the month arrived, given the discrepency with the deposit, I asked for a copy of receipts/accounts of transactions throughout my short time as tenant.

5. The landlord refused to provide these, and demanded payment, claiming I was wasting time and evading payment.

6. I asked for a list of receipts/transactions (dates, figures, brief explanation) on ten separate occasions in writing over the space of around a month, explaining that I now needed to be certain that the figure claimed was properly substantiated.

7. I made a token payment (gesture of good will) which represented 25% of the amount being demanded. I assured that I was not evading payment and committed to full payment of an agreed figure within seven days.

8. The landlord point blank ignored my request for receipts and provided just a partial scan of part of a utility bill, attempting to explain the deposit discrepency.

9. The landlord has now levelled an allegation of 'fraud' at me, and has contacted both my current landlord and my employer, demanding payment through them and making vague threats. I know this only because they have told me.

 

 

I believe I have acted in good faith, and have demonstrated willingness to pay what is fairly owed via commitments to timeframes and payments demonstrating good will. I do not feel that asking for a record of receipts, especially in light of the discrepency with the deposit, is being unreasonable. I do feel that dragging in third parties including my current landlord and employer (and god knows who else he's contacted without telling me) is unreasonable on his part. He previously threatened court action but appears to be trying to strong arm his way through extortion.

 

So... what can I do? I can't reverse the contact he's made, and am working with both employer and landlord to repair that damage, but I won't be bullied and feel strongly that I am within my rights to withhold payment until at least I'm sent a few receipts and can establish what may precisely be owing.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi, Do you have a copy of the tenancy agreement?

 

The LLs actions in contacting your new LL and your employer in this manner is imo defamatory, and should be challenged.

If you are able and willing to follow through with it a letter before action may be the way forward, you list what the LL has done, said or written, and what you have

done to mitigate his claims, give him 7 days to come to an amicable agreement if he fails take him to court.

[Surfer01]

LL has contravened the Data protection Act if he discussed it with your current LL and other people.

[spurious]

Thanks, yes I have a copy of the tenancy agreement, and a copy of all emails sent/received. The LL has quoted back at me an email I wrote before the deposit discrepency came up, saying he agrees with my figures at that time, and that it's proof I accept and am liable for the payment.

 

The problem is, that email was written before the deposit was returned and the discrepency occured. That discrepency and the way it was handled caused me to have concerns about the figure owing, and all I've done is ask for a copy of the receipts/dates so I can contrast with my own records and agree a figure, whereupon I'll pay it. The LL seems to think this is totally unreasonable, even after I've paid part of the monies to him!

 

Anyway, I have yet to see precisely what's been said to either the employer/landlord but if it alleges I have committed fraud or deception, I will certainly pursue that. What would I claim for though? Would it be reasonable to seek damaged equal to the funds being demanded of me?

[stu007]

Hi

 

Have to agree with Brig that this could be defamatory him contacting your new Landlord and employer as this is a civil matter and nothing to do with landlord or employer and could also be a breach of the Data Protection Act (DPA) as well.

 

Was the deposit protected at all? - If it was then why has the landlord not disputed this through the relevant scheme before deposit returned.

 

Of course you are entitled to see reciepts/invoices otherwise they could put any imaginary figure and say you got to pay.

 

I would do as suggested by Brig

[spurious]

LL has contravened the Data protection Act if he discussed it with your current LL and other people.

 

That was my understanding as well, and I waned LL of this, however he claims to have discussed it with the Information Commissioner's Office and has been advised that the DPA doesn't apply in this scenario because he is a "private citizen unbound by the DPA". I'm unsure how true that is.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Defamation, embarasment, there are breaches of the DPA but that's a separate matter.

 

The LBA I think is probably the only way to pull this person into line.

[stu007]

Hi

 

What you were informed by the idiot landlord about the information commisioners offices advice is incorrect.

 

He was not acting as a Private Citizen but as your ex landlord when he contacted your new landlord and employer so I am afraid he is incorrect.

 

The main thing is to get these supposed cost sorted please do as Brig suggested and send a LBA.

[citizenB]

You might also want to have a word with "Shelter" - they have a dedicated department that deals with problems of all kinds in respect of Rented properties.

 

I agree with the others, you are most certainly entitled to see copies of the bills that he is expecting you to pay.

[spurious]

Thanks, I certainly will. I'll need to hold off on doing that until I've seen precisely what he's written to my employer/current LL, then I'll do that.

 

It would be really helpful if I could know precisely what law etc. he's broken (in addition to DPA). What law do you quote when suing for defemation, for example?

 

The letter before action would essentially given seven days notice that unless a full set of receipts etc. are received from the LL, I will take it to court and sue for the figure the LL is claiming (i.e. settle the matter that way). Does that sound reasonable? Frankly, I'd like to ask for further damages given the embarassment this is causing me. Things at home and work will now be particularly strained and awkward. Do you think I should name a figure? Or leave it to the discretion of the court?

[Surfer01]

That was my understanding as well, and I waned LL of this, however he claims to have discussed it with the Information Commissioner's Office and has been advised that the DPA doesn't apply in this scenario because he is a "private citizen unbound by the DPA". I'm unsure how true that is.

 

Highly unlikely he discussed it first with ICO and is chancing his arm hoping you won't pursue that angle. If you do, the LL will probably come very unstuck and may end up owing you a lot of money!