County Court action by ex friend

[indianamachno]

Hi I am new here and i hope someone can help me.

 

I moved to a new place and through other friend etc I met a lady who is a millionair.

 

Long story but I ended up buying a house then ran out of money doing it up. Through my ex b/f she said she would help and said just ask for what you need.

 

In total she gave me 3 payments £10000,£6000 and £5000 pounds. I said I would pay her back when I remortgaged. she said ok whenever it does not matter.

 

Paid her 17000 back in april through the bank and £1100 in cash, by this time I was working for her and managing her clothes shop and at the same time she was falling out with people left right and center because It came to my attention that this so called friend was not a nice person at all and was quite nasty and evil when she did not get her own way. she wanted me to pay the owing amount to her credit card for some reason I did not know why but i could only pay what i could afford so I did...

 

The relationship became very strange when she was asking me to sell fake goods in her shop and I refused she turned nasty...this was In august and the shop was being sold and the new owner told me she was trying to get me sacked and was telling lies left right and center. I left in september as she things got worse.

 

I sent her a letter and my b/f at the time tried to sort out what i owed her but she just kept brushing him off and I stopped paying any money on the credit card.

 

Long story Is i have been sent county court papers after a few letters from a solicitor for £9000 pounds saying this is what I owe and she has a credit card statement with my signature on it and a statement above saying I would pay it! I never agreed to this at all . but the letter from the solicitor differ from what she said I owe In the court papers.

 

I suffer from nerves and panic attacks and I am a mess.

 

Please help

[the_shadow]

Hi and welcome to CAG,

 

Sorry this post wasnt responded to, I saw your post on the "Being sued" thread.

 

Ok, where are we at present? the fact this is a large amount means it will not be small claims, that gives you more CPR options. If the claimant has put in the Particulars of Claim that they documents then you can request as advised on that thread to see them. If they havent actually stated it in the PoC's then you could ask them a question under CPR18 which will get them to disclose the document in writing and then hit them with a CPR31.14 request for the newly disclosed document.

 

S.

[indianamachno]

Hi

 

This was money given from a friend and not a company so will this still apply...I have a credit card statement with a written statement on it that i would pay it back with interest but i did not write this but the signature on it is mine...I have never used this credit card at all all the money that was lent was paid into my account from her business account.

 

So do all the above still count even though it is not a credit company.

 

thank you so much for responding

[the_shadow]

The CPR rules are for everyone, if you are being sued you have the right to use them to your advantage.

 

Ok, can we establish some facts as I'm confused (its easy, believe me) can you possibly post up the particulars of claim so we can see what they are actually saying. (You can re-type it in if you dont have access to a scanner and a web image account)

 

S.

[indianamachno]

sorry tried to scan but not sure how......

Edited December 14, 2010 by indianamachno

[the_shadow]

Too small to read I'm afraid.

 

I've just read the comment you put on the being sued thread, please can you keep all relevant information like that on this thread so people can see the full picture when advising. That was a key bit of info that people who read this thread wont see unless you tell them.

 

So if the statement was added after I would if playing devils advocate wonder why you signed a credit card statement in the first place? Also can you PROVE the statement was added after.

 

A judge only has to decide on probabilities not certainties, being a larger amount makes things more formal but the judge still has the final say on evidence.

 

S.

[pt2537]

ok you owe her £2900 by my reckoning

 

what we need to know is the exact terms of the contract between you, what you said to her, what she said to you, what the words were relating to repaying, amounts etc,

 

These are key to your case.

 

For there to be a contract there must be an offer, which is accepted, consideration and intention to be legally bound.

 

any of these are missing then there is no contract and no claim.

 

Paying her credit card is absurd, you ought to pay her and then she uses the money to pay whom ever she wants.

 

i do ponder however why you would sign the credit card statement, but of course that is not part of the contract, as that cannot be retrospective,

 

did you blank sign the statement and then the words entered later?

[indianamachno]

Hi and thank you so much for your reply.

 

My ex b/f approached the claiment asking if there was any chance she could help out with house renovation, she said yes fine just ask so i rang her to say thank you she said no problem just ask for what you need.

 

I said i will pay you back when I can she said dont worry whenever is fine she lent me 21000 pounds in dec 20008/jan 2009.

 

remortgaged house in april and told her that i was going to pay her back what i could out of this she said fine I need some cash can you get me around a grand as cant get to the bank and need to pay for some jobs, i said fine will do,and i will get some transfered later. so I did this and gave it in an envelope to my b/f who came to the bank with me and said give this to .......that he did and later on that week I transfered 17000 pounds leaving around 3000 pounds.

 

Said i would pay her back the rest asap she said fine dont worry I was also workig for her by this point since feb 2009 and things where fine.

 

In june I said to her we need to sort out rest of the money she said yes sure will do ,few weeks later still nothing so I asked her again and she said I owe some money on my credit card you can pay some towards that I said fine.

 

So i payed some money i to that In juky and august in august her business was being sold and things had become strained,,,she had asked me over the phone to sort out some paperwork as i was dealing with the solicitor and the new owner at the time i always went to her house in the morning to see if anything needed to be taked to the shop .ie stock or paper work or instructions. i had been left a paper bag which was common whith some stuff to do and a credit card statement asking if could tot it up and check it was all correct and if so total and initial or sign it to say i had done it and drop it and other stuff back later. did not have time to do it at the shop so took it home with me and showed my then b/f and said what i had been asked , he said its fine just do as she is asking its only the card staement.

 

this i did and did not think anything of it all as the whole shop was a mess and the sale was falling through and stuff. in septembe i left after we fell out and i had had anough...paid sept and oct into the credit card account then stopped as i could not get to speak to her and i was in finacial difficulty.

 

sent her two letters but only hand delivered asking if i could pay £100 a month but never got reply.

 

next thing i know she is claiming all this money and i never agreed to it at all, why would i? owe 3000 and have agreed to pay 7000 + interest at 23% !!!

 

thank you for your responces i really do need the help

[diddydicky]

i am at a total loss as to why you- signing HER credit card statement means anything other than use as toilet paper!

 

she cannot "assign" her credit card debt to a third party

 

as far as i can see- you owe her the balance of what you borrowed- and as the agreement was that you would per her "as and when" then this is the basis of any agreement

 

either offer her a lump sum or an offer of regular payments and tell her that if she continues any legal action you will defend vigorously

 

if you have offered £100 per month then send her the first £100 and then make arrangements to keep to this schedule (i would counsel against sending post dated cheques)

 

if she decides not to bank or returns the payments- that is her problem (and will not do her case any good at all if she proceeds)

[indianamachno]

The problem i have is the credit card statement has a been written on above my signature with I ..................... agree to pay untill this is cleared asap incuding interest....my signature and total....no date or anything else....solicitors scare me as they dont give direct answers.

 

I never wote this!! But solicitors are saying because i have paid into this account I am going to have to prove i did not agree to this ..i want police involved as this is fraud.

 

I have offered her in person the full amount but she does not want to know as this is about a control freak trying to get her own back....

 

This lady is very,very wealthy by the way and not a nice person as i have found out and is willing to throw whatever money it takes to make my life a misery.

[diddydicky]

even if you did write it- it is a complete load of "cr*p and of no legal significance whatsoever

 

the sols are talking a load of codswallop

[Bigdebtor]

If the writing is hand written - but not in your hand writing (which it won't be if you didn't write it) I would tell her unless she accepts your proposals to pay the actual amount due (£2900?) at £100 per month (zero interest) then you will go to Police and allege this is fraud. It would take a VERY thick skinned person to risk criminal prosecution - especially if they see their money is going to be repaid in full if they keep out of court - but they'll incur huge court costs otherwise. I take it you've got legal aid in place if you need it?

 

If the statement is typed then I would say it's most unlikley YOU would type it - as you would most probably have hand written it at the time you signed it if you did mean to keep to this (which of course you didn't). It would be more difficult to prove fraud on something typed - so probably not worth going to Police - but on balance of probablities I believe the Judge would dismiss this as not worth the paper it's written on.

 

Good luck!

 

BD

[diddydicky]

whether it was hand written or types makes no difference- it would not comply with the CCa in a thousand different ways- it is not even worth talking about- it is nonsense

 

involving the police is not advised- they will not get involved- it is clearly a civil dispute

 

simply write again and offer £100 per month with the first payment enclosed and advise her that if this is not acceptable then you will not respond to any further communications - save for service of court documents

[indianamachno]

Thank you to everyone who is helping i really do appriciate it.

 

I have contacted the police and they are coming around tomorrow to take and satement and hopefully then go and question her about it.

 

I am trying to gather everything that i have with regards to the money and dates etc and hope i can put some sort of defence together as my panic attacts have come back with a vengance ..

 

I dont have legal aid in place as I own my house and dont think i can get it.

[indianamachno]

As pointed out i have been served with the court papers aready and i have to respond by the 27th dec so I have to admit part and fill out a defence for the rest!

 

Do i make the offer to her solicitor to try and keep it out of court or to her direct?

 

I dont have legal aid and can not afford a solicitor so not sure if I offer it to whom?

[the_shadow]

whether it was hand written or types makes no difference- it would not comply with the CCa in a thousand different ways- it is not even worth talking about- it is nonsense

 

Dont follow the logic here... Can you explain why you think it needs to meet the requirements of the CCA?

 

S.

[diddydicky]

first of all relax- it is in the small claims court if under £5000 and the fact that she is wealthy is totally irrelevant since she will not be able to claim ANY legal expenses above and beyond the small claims court limits (cant remember but around a £100 or so i think) no matter how many legal seagulls she employs@

 

 

if you are prepared to pay the debt either in a lump sum or monthly payments- then there really is no benefit whatsoever in her taking you to court- since she will gain absolutely NOTHING by doing it

 

In the small claims court it is very informal and simply a matter of them telling the judge their side of the story and you telling yours

 

the judge will then decide- on the balance of probabilities- who he beleives

 

the wording on the statement does not bind you to a credit agreement- you are not obliged to pay or agree to interest on the debt if none was agreed beforehand, and therefore even if you lose - you will win- because you will then give the judge the details of your income and expenditure and make an offer to pay monthly through the court

 

alternatively- if you lose and you pay the total amount claimed within 28 days of the judgement- no record of the judgement will ever appear in any credit reference files or court registry files

 

 

Has she sent to you, with or following the summons- any of the documents she has claimed in her Particulars Of Claim give her a cause of action?- if not- request themn under CPR31.14

 

if the particulars are vague- you could respond by stating that you cannot plead or offer a defence since you do not know upon what grounds the claim against you is based and demand a more detailed POC

Edited December 16, 2010 by diddydicky

[indianamachno]

The amount she is claiming is £9000 and a solicitor said it will go fast track......and it could end up being very expensive.

 

I am so sorry for all of this i am very confused by it all i am getting told so many different things.

 

Thank you all again

[diddydicky]

where does the £9000 come from?

 

if the original debt is £2900?

 

is it possible to post up the POC's so that we can read them?

 

what date did she give you the money

 

what dates did you repay

 

when were you asked to sign this credit card statement and where were you when you signed it?- who else was present

[diddydicky]

Dont follow the logic here... Can you explain why you think it needs to meet the requirements of the CCA?

 

S.

 

well i haven't really got t the bottom of the story- but i would be interested to know how this woman loaned £21,000 to the cagger - was repaid £18,100 and then claimed that THE CAGGER by virture of her signing a sentence on the lenders own credit card statement - was then responsible for the lenders credit card debt plus interest and by what authority under the CCA she could "assign" the debt on her card to the cagger

 

it would seem to me that if the lender is seeking to bind the cagger to an assigned credit card debt- there must be some CCA legistlation that i do not know about that allows her to do so- or it is a load of old crap

 

I cannot read the posted POC's so do not know what the cause of action is that is being cited

[Bigdebtor]

DD

My comment about type written or hand written was related to the ease of proving WHo DID (or did not) add the paragraph - not anything to do with the enforceability or otherwise of the debt.

 

IM

I think getting police involved now is a bit premature - as they may well say they have too little to go on - and that ace up sleeve has been played too early on to help you get her to see sense and accept the £2900 actually owed over 29 months.

 

BD

[diddydicky]

DD

My comment about type written or hand written was related to the ease of proving WHo DID (or did not) add the paragraph - not anything to do with the enforceability or otherwise of the debt.

 

IM

I think getting police involved now is a bit premature - as they may well say they have too little to go on - and that ace up sleeve has been played too early on to help you get her to see sense and accept the £2900 actually owed over 29 months.

 

BD

 

thats ok- i am still trying to get my head around how and why the lender feels that she can "assign" her own credit card debt to the person she lent money to! and what legal authority she can cite a cause of action and/or add charges or interest to a loan which she initially gave interest free on a repay when you can basis!

 

if there is no written evidence of an agreement- how can the claim possibly be justified since there would be no record of what/if any interest was agreed- when it would become repayable etc etc and therefore the claimant needs to show documentary evidence to support the amount claimed in the POC (the difference between the £2900 outstanding and the amount claimed £9000) together with a full audit trail of how when and where the charges have been added

[Bigdebtor]

DD

 

I totally agree with your last post. I would have thought any decent solicitor (oxymoron?) would advise the lender to save her money and effort - and also avoid any risk of prosecution for fraud/forgery by accepting the offer of reepaying the outstanding £2900 at £100 per month - but I suppose it depends on what story the solicitor has been told?

 

BD

[indianamachno]

really sorry tried to scan again it wont work if some one can ring me it would be great so i an explain

[indianamachno]

Ok here goes it would not scan

 

POC

1. In or around june 2009 the claiment agreed to loan the defendant the sum of 23000 in respect of the defendants deposit on her house which was paid direct into the defendants bank account.

 

2. in previous months the claiment also loaned to the defendant cash amounts which amounted to £1214 for various items. The defendant had agred at the outset of these loans that part of the money she was lending was set aside by the claiment to pay off her credit card and if it was used by the defendant the defendant agreed that she would clear off the balance of the claiments credit card. the defendant repaid the sum of 17000 leaving a balance of £7,214.00

 

3. It was agreed between the claiment and def in or around july 2009 that the defendant would pay this sum back to the claiment by way of paying off the claiments credit card being a Halifax one card

 

4. Since the agreement bewteen the parties was made the defendant made the following payments in repsect of monthy instalments as evidence by the letter dated ...

 

however since the payment of 13th october 2009 the defendant has made o further payments.

 

5. On or around the 19th august 2009 at a meeting bewtween the claiment and defendant, the defendant signed the claiments Halifax one august monthly statement stating. I ............ confirm that i am liable for this amount and that it will be repaid by monthly or untill clear ASAP, including interest. The amount outstanding at the date since the defendant had already made two payments was stated at £6,948.47. As per paragraph 2 above since this date the defendant made a further 2 payments totalling £330.00 leaving a balance of £6,618.47 due and owing.

 

6. The claiment also seeks to recover the interest on the above sum that the claiment has been charged by the bank. The interest up to the 17th nov 2010 amounts to £2,096.22

 

7. The claiment claims interest upon the above sums pursuant to the rate charged under the credit card agreement being stated on the statement of 23.29% per annum.

 

And the caiment claims

 

1. The sum of £6618.47

2. interest to 17th nov 2010 in the sum of £2,096.22

3. Continuing interest at the rate of 23.29% per anum as per credit card agreemet or in the alternative at the rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act 1984

4 costs