Faulty Sony camera from Amazon ****RESULT****

[Cardiff Devil]

Hi all, long time reader, first time poster etc etc..

 

Thought I'd share my ongoing saga with you regarding Amazon and my faulty Sony DSLR-A200 camera.

 

Bought the camera kit from Amazon in March 2009, and paid £260 on my debit card. Camera arrived shortly afterwards, and all was well until August 2010 when it stopped working. It powered on OK, but would only take all-black images. Contacted Amazon straight away, despite it being 5 months outside of their warranty period. Initially they didn't want to know but when I quoted SOGA, they agreed to look at the case. Next step was to send the camera away for an independent inspection. The company that looked at it have found that the CCD sensor has failed, and it's approximately £135 for a repair. Forwarded this back to Amazon who referred me to their legal team. They've come back to me now saying that because I can't prove that the fault was a manufacturing defect, they won't pay for the repair.

 

Now for those that aren't familiar with the workings of cameras, the CCD sensor (the part that records the image and saves it) is a microchip assembly and contains no moving parts, so would not typically exhibit any signs of wear and tear or fatigue. I cannot see any realistic way of proving that this is a manufacturing defect or not, except for the fact that it simply shouldn't have failed after 17 months of occasional use, given that this is a piece of professional photographic equipment.

 

Surely Amazon can't use the "can't prove it's a manufacturing defect so get lost" defence. The report that I paid for states that the fault is due to a part failiure and not accidental damage or fair wear & tear. Surely in this case the "fit for purpose" requirement in the SOGA should suffice. My latest response to them I've entitled as "LETTER BEFORE ACTION" and will give them 14 days to respond before I take the case to small claims court.

 

Has anyone else had any similar problems with Amazon (not neccesarily with a camera but with any type of goods)? Do you know if the threat of SCC would get them to budge? I'm only claiming somewhere in the region of £150 to cover the repair and the cost of the independent inspection, surely it would cost them more than this to fight the case in court?

 

I'll keep you posted.

 

CD

[rebel11]

Hi Cardiff

 

Your following the correct pre-court protocols, I fairly sure that you have a good case, as you've got an independent report. Let us know how you get on.

 

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/know-your-rights/SGAknowyourrights/

[dx100uk]

warranty makes no odds

 

SOGA is your friend here

 

it should last a 'resonable period'

 

+3yrs for a camera atleast

 

its not up you to prove anything,

 

its failed - repair it - and refund my inspection costs too - thank you.

 

 

its their problem no-one elses.

 

smokescreen tactics

 

dx

[Cardiff Devil]

Thanks for your support folks.

 

Anyway, the 14 day LBA was sent out this morning. I've a funny feeling they'll call my bluff up until the last minute. Failing that, hopefully the court action will kick them into paying up.

 

Will obviously keep you posted.

[Cardiff Devil]

Just one more quick question guys. The LBA should arrive today, as it was sent via recorded delivery (will check the tracking details later), so they will most likely have 14 days from today. I want to do this by the book if they don't respond, so they have no ammunition to use against me. My question is, in 14 days time, if they still haven't responded do I need to write to them again announcing I'm initiating court proceedings or am I clear to just go ahead and do it, having already given them ample warning?

[IdaInFife]

that's what a lba is for - your lba should clearly state what you are going to do if they do not respond favourably

[Cardiff Devil]

Merry Xmas CAG'ers!

 

Latest update in the story..

 

Amazon have written back stating that they're not budging, but I can take them to court if I want to, but when they win (which they WILL), they will be claiming back all their costs and solicitors fees from me.

 

Am I right in thinking they can't do this with small claims court?

[buzby]

No you are wrong. You will have to pay their capped costs - so budget £100 for this. I'm not familiar with your model, but you'll have an uphill struggle. The CCD can deteriorate without any physical contact. CCDs are sensitive to light and unless cared for can expire, sun and condensation being the killer.

 

They will be able to prove that the CCD (which will be used in many other products) will have no inherent faults, leaving user misuse as the only viable explanation. Leaving you stranded. Righteous indignation aside, you need to have any purchase fail within the first year, longer for items that are not portable. (Because of the additional stresses placed on these items from external sources).

[Cardiff Devil]

I'm aware that a CCD can deteriorate over time and develop dead pixels etc, but should it really have completely failed after less than 18 months? It's not a user-serviceable part, and I'd be very interested to know how you're supposed to "care" for a CCD.

 

Of course portable appliances will be subject to more wear and tear than static products, but surely something which is intended to be used outdoors should be more durable than this?

 

I've proven it hasn't been misused or abused, which only leaves insufficient worksmanship or parts failure.

[buzby]

You miss the point. The fact you cannot get at it does not mean they are responsible. I could make a CCD fail with all your security seals intact, yet you would demand they are liable when they really aren't. The real killer for you is the time taken to complain. It will be up to you to prove the fault was a defect and their responsibility, not for them to disprove the fault was pre existing.

 

Because of this - you've not 'proved' anything, simply that X months after purchase it has failed. If this is out with the warranty, then if they do not agree, you'll need to pay for the repair (or a proportion of it).

 

I lost one camera CCD due to degradation, and it was my own stupid fault, as I was doing a time-lapse lasting one full day of 1 pic per 5 minutes. I had forgotten that the sun's arc would play havoc with the CCD. My fault, and even though the camera was within warranty, I had a hard time getting it fixed as it was really my abuse. You may not have done anything similar you are aware of but there's the rub, it is for you to prove you were blameless, making it van expensive option if you lose. Going for a repair, may be a better use of your money as anythingvelse is a risk.

[Cardiff Devil]

Court action has been filed, let the waiting game begin.

[Cardiff Devil]

Just a quick update on this one. The hearing date in the County Court has been set for May 12th. That's two weeks from today. The deadline for the parties exchange of information is today at 5pm. The postman has been and gone and Amazon have sent me nothing. Looks like they won't be producing any documented evidence in court then.

 

I have a strange feeling they won't show up to court, but we'll see.

[locutus]

sounds good

 

Keep us informed

[Cardiff Devil]

Result;

 

Cardiff Devil - 1

Amazon - 0

 

They didn't show up to court, as I suspected. On the strength of my paper evidence, judge ruled in my favour and awarded full costs.

 

Took 9 months of emails and letters but it's finally sorted.

[rebel11]

Well Done Cardiff:-)

[ctoumi]

Hi CD,

 

I manage an IT company and we do get various cases such as yours.

 

First of all, since you are buying a 'NEW' product it automatically comes with a compulsory 1 year manufacturer's warranty.

Secondly, the warranty is provided by the Manufacturer NOT by the reseller.

Thirdly, if your camera is still under warranty (and it is as far as I can read), you need to contact the manufacturer and demand a repair which they are obliged to provide for free, provided the damage was not caused by you such as physical dropping, liquid damage etc.

Finally, sueing the reseller (Amazon) for a repair, relacement or similar will not succeed unless Amazon is the manufacturer, eg. if you had bought a Kindle you could sue Amazon as they are the Manufacturer and reseller at the same time, but NOT in the case of a camera as i take it it is probably a Canon or similar.

 

So always remember to keep your invoices as they will be required by the manufacturers to establish the warranty period dates.

 

I hope that helps but dont hesitate to ask if still in doubt.

[silverfox1961]

Hi CD,

 

I manage an IT company and we do get various cases such as yours.

 

First of all, since you are buying a 'NEW' product it automatically comes with a compulsory 1 year manufacturer's warranty.

Secondly, the warranty is provided by the Manufacturer NOT by the reseller.

Thirdly, if your camera is still under warranty (and it is as far as I can read), you need to contact the manufacturer and demand a repair which they are obliged to provide for free, provided the damage was not caused by you such as physical dropping, liquid damage etc.

Finally, sueing the reseller (Amazon) for a repair, relacement or similar will not succeed unless Amazon is the manufacturer, eg. if you had bought a Kindle you could sue Amazon as they are the Manufacturer and reseller at the same time, but NOT in the case of a camera as i take it it is probably a Canon or similar.

 

So always remember to keep your invoices as they will be required by the manufacturers to establish the warranty period dates.

 

I hope that helps but dont hesitate to ask if still in doubt.

 

 

Irrespective of any manufacturers warranty, the SELLER, not the manufacturer is responsible for any problems that arise. They sold it, they are responsible. It may be that they have an agreement in place to return the product to the manufacturer for repair but always the first point of call is the seller.

 

Why would anyone sue the manufacturer- they didn't take the customers money, the seller did

[dx100uk]

Hi CD,

 

I manage an IT company and we do get various cases such as yours.

 

First of all, since you are buying a 'NEW' product it automatically comes with a compulsory 1 year manufacturer's warranty.

Secondly, the warranty is provided by the Manufacturer NOT by the reseller.

Thirdly, if your camera is still under warranty (and it is as far as I can read), you need to contact the manufacturer and demand a repair which they are obliged to provide for free, provided the damage was not caused by you such as physical dropping, liquid damage etc.

Finally, sueing the reseller (Amazon) for a repair, relacement or similar will not succeed unless Amazon is the manufacturer, eg. if you had bought a Kindle you could sue Amazon as they are the Manufacturer and reseller at the same time, but NOT in the case of a camera as i take it it is probably a Canon or similar.

 

So always remember to keep your invoices as they will be required by the manufacturers to establish the warranty period dates.

 

I hope that helps but dont hesitate to ask if still in doubt.

 

what training course taught you that load of bs?

 

wrong on just about everthing

 

looks like you know as much about SOGA as you do on where to park your car.....speed hump....hehe

 

 

dx

[silverfox1961]

As for 'compulsory'. This is also a fallacy. No-one has to offer a warranty. This is 'in addition to your Statutory Rights' It is like an extra carrot to entice the buyer.

[ctoumi]

Any 'new' product sold in the EU comes with an automatic 1 year manufacturer's warranty.

Anything else is at the discretion of manufaturers or resellers.

[ctoumi]

what training course taught you that load of bs?

 

wrong on just about everthing

 

looks like you know as much about SOGA as you do on where to park your car.....speed hump....hehe

 

 

dx

 

I guess I am getting someone's frustration of not being able to suggest anything constructive apart from insults.

I may not know my parking rights, but Ive never been sued for 11 years in business, but at least I have a life, and being polite to others is one of them...useless P****

[locutus]

Take a read of what your responsibilities are as a retailer here. You will see that "1 years manufacturers warranty" is not even close to the minimum standard expected by law, and as a consumer your contract is with the retailer NOT the manufacturer. Manufacturers warranty is in addition to your statutory rights, and in most cases your rights far exceed what is offered via a warranty!

[Cardiff Devil]

Actually the EU product warranty provides 2 years warranty from time of sale. It's not been fully adopted into law in the UK since the Sale of Goods act 1979 gives a greater degree of protection for consumers.

 

Unfortunately, as the guys above have already posted, your first point of contact for any fault should be whoever sold it to you. Your contract is with them since they took your money in exchange for the product. It would then be up to the retailer/seller to seek damages from the manufacturer if relevant. If a retailer tells you they're not liable and to speak to the manufacturer instead, they're fobbing you off.

 

And in case you haven't fully read this thread, I've already taken the seller to court and won.

[silverfox1961]

I forgot to say well done so WELL DONE

 

Lets hope that Amazon do the right thing and pay up now

[Cardiff Devil]

Cheers matey.

 

They only have until 4pm tomorrow to pay up. If not, it's bailiff time.