Advice on Debt Collection and "Finance Agreements" needed

[Tingy]

I apologize if i have broken any rules with regards to placing links in my posts. It wont happen again. Applogies to you Tingy if i have got you into trouble. I have the letter printed out. Who do i make the PO payable to? Do i put the name of the collection company or do i make it payable to department within the company?

Thanks in advance

Moocher

 

From my point of view you have no need to apologise whatsoever. Martin is a very competent and very pleasant person. I'm sure he would agree with me when I say don't worry and let's get this sorted as best we can for you. I'd put the name of the collection company on it. If you want to check if its been cashed, phone 01246 542254 and ask for Postal Orders - they will tell you from the reference number on your receipt whether or not it has been cashed. Make a note of the number - it's not proved an easy one to find for me.

[Moocheruk]

Hello again. I've been doing some research on Lasker Collections (the collection agency) as i need to find an address to send this letter off too. I have found 4 addresses for what seems to be the same company (acording to companies house, one of the business's has been dissolved). Putting the number they left for me to call into google, it takes me to UK Debt Recovery. At the bottom of the page, it says its a holding page for Lasker. I run both web addresses through a "whois" search to see if the UK Debt Recovery site was set up by the same people as the Lasker site, its not. The address for the uk debt recovery site is the same address for the business that is on companies house as dissolved. Do i just send the letter to the address on the Lasker website?

[bdcarr]

This is an interesting one as it appears not to be a Financial Agreement but a Consumer Purchase where the product would be purchased at the end of a payment cycle. In the event of the payment cycle not completing, then the buyer doesnt receive his or her products.

 

I am surprised that they have gone to a debt collection agency so early on and why have they. I would go back to the photograph firm and ask them (generically) what is the process for a Photo day, what the costs are and what if any are the options for payment (ie monthly). Use a different name and as you have a different address, they can send you this as they will believe you are a new client. Therefore obtaining documents of what you beleive may have been signed.

 

I cant get my head around a Debt Collection agency getting involved when you have not received goods or services.

[nicklea]

So my questions are, can a debt collector be called in to recover a debt for something which i dont actually have and was never given?

It all depends what this agreement says. However, don't think that just because any terms are included in an agreement that they are automatically enforceable as there are laws that say that any termws must not be unfair.

 

Do i have a right to see my "financial agreement" without me having to pay £15?

 

As tingy said above you need to pay 10 quid

 

Can they legally enforce what they said they are going to do?

 

Don't worry about all these threats of adding extra money - they won't do that and they just say that to frighten you.

What would my next steps be?

I'm guessing i can kiss my £200 deposit goodbye, and the £200 paid through transfer, and the DVD

 

Not necessarily, it all depends on what the agreement actually says. Also, I am sure that the retailer would prefer to get their whole 800 quid and give you the dvd

Any help would be greatly appreciated

(wasn't as short and sweet as i thought it would be :/)

Thanks in advance

Moocher

 

replied to a few points in the quote above

[Moocheruk]

Hey bdcar and nicklea, i thought it was a little silly myself when it first came to light. I dont know the ins and outs of agreements, and what makes an agreement a ligitimate document. There were no terms and conditions or anything of the sort. It was basically the same as me writing up a quick document to say you will give me £100 a month, then you signing it, then me calling the debt collectors cause you hadn't paid. The first agreement was for me to drop in money every month (to which i signed) when i couldn't do that, the boss of splash would use my partners card details to take a payment (£50 a month, agreed over the phone. They never took any bank details from either of us on the day and i paid the deposit of £200 in cash). I'm gutted i couldn't find the original piece of paper i come away with (moved twice, looked everyewhere). I've sent a SAR to the debt collection agency today (with the PO for £10), and included my current address cause i really want to see the agreement anyway. As nicklea pointed out, without knowing what i agreed to, i'm in limbo of my next step.

Thanks for all your help so far, i shall be back when i get a response.

[Moocheruk]

Hello again. i got a reply stating that they cant find the details they need without having a reference number (which i didn't put on the original letter :/) when i send off the ref number, is there anything i need to state in there regarding the sar i.e this is the ref number you requested in regards to the subject access request that i made and sent on the xxxx. Do i need to add anything else? and now do they have 40 days from when they receive my response, or do they have 40 days from my original letter?

thanks again

Moocher

[sillygirl1]

KEEP that text and you can use it against them, clearly they are using intimidatory tactics here to get you to pay for something.

 

Have you informed local Trading Standards via Consumer Direct, and the Office of Fair Trading? These photoshoot companies have been highlighted as 'problem' companies by them in the past.

 

Do not respond to any texts, print them out and keep them as evidence.

[Tingy]

Below is what the DPA 1998 actually states. It seems clear to me that they have 40 days to comply from when they are satisfied it is you (your identity). Anything else is their problem so the clock still keeps ticking is the way I interpret it. By the way they have 40 days for you to receive their reply (they can't send it out on Day 40) - I had this on good authority from a senior lawyer yesterday over a disputed SAR of mine.

 

 

Right of access to personal data. E+W+S+N.I.

 

(1)Subject to the following provisions of this section and to [F1sections 8, 9 and 9A], an individual is entitled—

(a)to be informed by any data controller whether personal data of which that individual is the data subject are being processed by or on behalf of that data controller,

(b)if that is the case, to be given by the data controller a description of—

(i)the personal data of which that individual is the data subject,

(ii)the purposes for which they are being or are to be processed, and

(iii)the recipients or classes of recipients to whom they are or may be disclosed,

©to have communicated to him in an intelligible form—

(i)the information constituting any personal data of which that individual is the data subject, and

(ii)any information available to the data controller as to the source of those data, and

(d)where the processing by automatic means of personal data of which that individual is the data subject for the purpose of evaluating matters relating to him such as, for example, his performance at work, his creditworthiness, his reliability or his conduct, has constituted or is likely to constitute the sole basis for any decision significantly affecting him, to be informed by the data controller of the logic involved in that decision-taking.

(2)A data controller is not obliged to supply any information under subsection (1) unless he has received—

(a)a request in writing, and

(b)except in prescribed cases, such fee (not exceeding the prescribed maximum) as he may require.

[F2(3)Where a data controller—

(a)reasonably requires further information in order to satisfy himself as to the identity of the person making a request under this section and to locate the information which that person seeks, and

(b)has informed him of that requirement,

the data controller is not obliged to comply with the request unless he is supplied with that further information.]

[Moocheruk]

Hey sillygirl and Tingy. It was a letter they sent out saying they need my ref number. The only thing is, if i were to ignore texts and phone calls, they wouldn't know who i was and i wouldn't have a ref number as i have moved. So if they have sent anything in writing (prior to the letter i just got as i informed them i had changed my address) i've not got it. I've never received anything in writing from them. i only have the ref number cause they texted me. I'll get a letter sent off tomorrow stating the ref number and reminding them how many days they have left. After i have finished chewing on these guys, i'm gonna start chewing on the photo studio. I'll keep you informed. Thanks again for your help, i'll be back in a few days...hopefully

Moocher

[Tingy]

Good luck - if you need help, shout!

[Splash24]

Hi Been Reading your concerns

Please contact the studio on 01268 271900 to discuse your situation and set up a payment plan that you can afford and arrange to collect the disc of your pictures which you have ordered on your signed contract

 

Kind Regards

Bob

Splash Studios

[ploddertom]

Hi Been Reading your concerns

Please contact the studio on 01268 271900 to discuse your situation and set up a payment plan that you can afford and arrange to collect the disc of your pictures which you have ordered on your signed contract

 

Kind Regards

Bob

Splash Studios

 

Regardless you still have to comply with the SAR.

 

PT

[Tingy]

Hi Been Reading your concerns

Please contact the studio on 01268 271900 to discuse your situation and set up a payment plan that you can afford and arrange to collect the disc of your pictures which you have ordered on your signed contract

 

Kind Regards

Bob

Splash Studios

 

Hello Bob, and welcome to CAG,

 

Unfortunately I would advise the OP not to have any contact with you via telephone at all. You were the company that employed a DCA to pursue this and made threats of adding a further £500.00 to the customer's bill. This is not the normal actions of a reputable company and so it would be reasonable to expect anything now to be in writing for the avoidance of doubt.

 

It is good to see that you are keen to resolve the issue for the customer and great to see you coming on here to state that in public. Perhaps if the customer gives permission on here, you would also be kind enough to confirm in public the amount you would be seeking in total repayment for their disc of pictures, and maybe even a blank copy of the contract that was signed so we can look at this on their behalf. Given the trouble caused, my assumption would be that you would be offering the customer a substantial goodwill gesture by way of apology.

 

Obviously it is up to the customer themself to respond, but I certainly would not advise them to resolve things via telephone purely for any further avoidance of doubt.

[Splash24]

Hi

Thankyou for your comments firstley thankyou for bringing to my attention the activities of the Laskys group, which as a small business we instucted in good faith and came with a recomendation from the Federation Of Small Business to recoupe bad debts for us sfter we had exausted all avenues from our end.

Bad debt for a small business is a big problem knowbody seems to moan when they get a letter from their mortage lender with regards to arrears, but hey there only photos so we wont pay

The said client had been contacted by ourselves on numerous occasions and made false promises

With regards to to the said debt i am nore than whilling to accept just the outstanding balance of £395 either as a lump sum or in intrest free managable instalments.

With regards to The Laskys group i will be having serious words with them over there conduct towards our clients we were prommised a soft approach, they were only instucted as we are a small business and dont have the staffing levels to cover a full time credit control person to recover our bad debts

i can appolagise on my companies behalf if the client feels she has been badley treated all that was ever wanted was our money for the product that she has signed for and we have produced in good faith

 

Regards

 

Bob

[Tingy]

Again I cannot speak for your customer, but they claim they have paid £450.00 against a debt of £800.00. By my reckoning that leaves monies owing to you of £350.00 - do you mind my asking where you got the figure of £395 from. I would have thought, whatever your customers actions, given the unnecessary pressure put on her and illegal threats made against her by your appointed agents, with whom you are presumably vicariously liable, the least you would offer would be purely the remaining balance of £350.00. Were it my company I would also be backing up my apology by way of some compensation.

 

I fully appreciate the problems of debt on a small company - I owned one that collapsed for this very reason. However, the profit margins in your chosen industry are significant and a gesture would I am sure be appreciated.

[Splash24]

Hi

 

With Regards to the profit margins of our company unless you know how much it costs to run a photographic studio with highley skilled staff and very good marketing stands in prominant locations then i suggest we stay on the subject at hand bad debt from said client.

The total Bill from the studio Was £795 the client paid £ 200 at the time of the viewing and contract signing for a high resolution CD and 10 Free 10x8 Prints of her choice she then paid 4 further payments of £50 via her partners debit card leaving a balance of £395.

With regards to any form of compensation we have paid many man hours in phone calls and letter writing to said client and feel all of this could of been avoided if the client had just paid her bill

 

Regards

 

Bob

[Master Chief]

Wow, I live near that studio and was considering going there for a whole load of family stuff.

 

Definately won't be now if that is the way they treat people who have fallen into financial difficulties through no fault of their own. I'll be telling my extended family and friends too!

 

I wish the OP the best of luck with this one, but it doesn't appear that the owner is prepared to negotiate even though he is responsible for employing a bunch of neanderthal thugs to threaten and bully the OP.

 

Seems to me that neither side has got what they want at this stage, but the studio costs would have been similar with or without the OP walking through the door, after all you have to pay your leccy bill and staff wages regardless of 0 or 100 customers!

 

MC

[newstarter]

I have read through this thread with intrest and i cannot recall a clearer case where two heads needed banging together such as this.I suspect that this contract (which is enforceable by law) is not a contract at all but an agreement by two parties to (a) pay in instalments,and (b) the goods supplied once the balance is paid.The question is how has such a simple agreement esculated to the present situation.Whilst i believe that the employment of a D.C.A was a little over-the-top i can understand your concern when a customer varies an agreement from one month to the next.However a simple meeting here between supplier and customer will almost surely remedy this situation,were not talking about a mega-bucks business deal here running into thousands.The customers finances are not what they were (happens to us all) and you have a business to run,a 30 minuite chat and a couple of cups of coffee should sort this out.Or should do!

[Splash24]

Thankyou for your comments I am more than happy to speak to the client to help resolve this situation with regards to some of the comments made by masterchief how would you deal with customers who don't pay there bills the said client has made remarks that she would still like the pictures instead of spending hours writing on this forum maybe she would like to contact the studio where I will be more than happy to discus a resolution to this problem were both parties are happy

I can only assume that masterchief has a problem paying there bills too or they would not have a problem comming to the studio if they had any intention of having some lovely pictures of there family and paying for them

Regards

Bob

[newstarter]

Although i dont take sides in any disputes such as this one i do admire you for comming on the forum and discussing this issue and forwarding your version of events thus far.I think threats of S.A.R.S and the like do little to remedy,what i believe is a storm in a teacup,i do hope you get a speedy resoloution to this and that you can both get together and find a soloution,life,s hard enough without making it harder,good luck.

 

N.S

[Master Chief]

Lets face it Bob, you've taken the OP's money for something you were going to deliver once paid for in full. Your £400 richer, the OP is £400 poorer yet your greed has led you to employ the services of a company to recover monies for a service not yet rendered!

 

As far as I can see, you offered your services and certain products free. Then said, when the OP pays in full you will burn the images (taken for free) to a DVD disk, which you will charge £800 for.

 

You have £400 of the OP's money, the OP has -£400 and only what you offered free in return. Nice work if you can get it HUH!

 

Don't lecture me on what is right or wrong or imply that I would not pay you if I were to employ your services, which as I have made clear I wouldn't!

 

Had you given the DVD disk at the time, then the OP not paid anything I might have some sympathy for you. But no it is not the case is it?

 

Perhaps, a resolution may be that as you have 50% of the agreed sum, you might offer to burn 50% of the images to a disk for the OP and close the matter.

 

Oh and newstarter, take your tounge out of his arse!

Edited December 21, 2010 by Master Chief

[Tingy]

Hi

With Regards to the profit margins of our company unless you know how much it costs to run a photographic studio with highley skilled staff and very good marketing stands in prominant locations then i suggest we stay on the subject at hand bad debt from said client.

Regards

Bob

 

Funny you should say that. My brother in law runs a photographic studio with highly skilled staff (I wonder if you pay yours in the same way he pays his?) and excellent standards - he has been in the business for over 35 years! I do his accounts so I do have a reasonable idea of profit margins and what can I say - without breaking confidences between myself and my brother in law I shall simply say he leads a VERY comfortable life, lives in a huge house and drives a brand new (fully paid for) Jaguar. I don't think the profit margins can be that bad! However, we'll save that till they open the thread on photography and stick to the issue in hand, but please don't assume our ignorance. If that is the approach you took to your customer, unlike newstarter (who should basically be right, but obviously isn't given the circumstances) I can see exactly how this came to this position.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Tingy

[Revenant]

As there's been no comment from Moocheruk (The OP) since Bob (splash24) joined in at post 36 I do not think it's right for discussions into the financial aspect of this matter to be held . .

 

1/ In their absence . . . . . 2/ Without their consent

 

I know that you're trying to help but think of the hell that would break lose and shouts of DPA breach if a DCA discussed your financial matters with a third party without your permission

 

Just my thoughts on the way this thread is starting to run but no doubt others will disagree

 

R

Edited December 21, 2010 by Revenant

[Tingy]

I certainly don't disagree with you at all. I have thought since the first response to my post that a breach of the DPA was taking place as I have no right whatsoever to know the OP's details regarding this debt.

 

The OP knows this as I sent them a pm telling them so, but it is not for me to point it out in public. Now you have, I have to agree with you.

[bdcarr]

Amazing that Bob has come on to speak out and with respect for doing that.

 

Small Businesses are under pressure, however repeat business and recommendations are key to success. It would be far better to have a resolution that worked for both than to continue down the avenue of legal battles.

 

Also by hiring a Debt Recovery Company, that reduces margins drastically as they take a large cut.

 

I appreciate having marketing stands in Malls etc and how many people sign up for that one family photo for £20-£50 and actually never go through with it after paying. No sign of them funds being returned.

 

Its Xmas after all and agree with the previous post. Give half of the photos and having the other half on a hard drive isnt costing anything and when the financial difficulties are sorted, just maybe they will come back and pay for the rest. They are not doubting the quality or service, but we are in an economic crisis for god;s sake.

 

PS: Mortgage companies are shafted too, have you not read about the billions being written off and tax payers monies going into high street banks to stop them from folding and closing down small businesses as a result.