baliffs came

[scruffpot]

Hi but i just need abit of advice i have a small business which allows me topay cheaper business rates my rates are £285 per year.with the climate of today i didn't pay it i paid £100 in aug and the rest last week, this week i have had a visit from phoenix collections for £585.00 i explained to him that i had paid up even asking him to check my online banking statements this he did not want to do.he called the police and told them that i was going to break his legs this i couldn't do being small and 55 yrs old anyway the police arrived and as i was waiting for someone to lend me the money the bill went up and up till it reached £800.00 he called the council and they told him that the money was not showing in their account so i couldn't of paid it the police asked him to come back in a couple of days but they refused.he said i would have to get a refund from the council for the rates i have paid will they refund me?,i didn't even know i was going or had been to court as he said he didn't carry any paperwork and couldn't show me a summons or whatever eles as he only had his work sheet.so if i ask the coucil to send me all the paper work that they should or have sent would they do this,also would he have had a legal right to come into my shop and take all my goods from the walls and start unplugging my computer?i hope that someone can advise me on this thank you for reading my problem

[Leakie]

Hi Scruffpot

 

I think that maybe you need to get this thead moved to the Baliffs section

sorry to hear about your problem, hope it all gets sorted out,

 

Leakie

[ploddertom]

Firstly call the Council ASAP and ask:

 

1 - how much the Liability Order was for

2 - how much is still outstanding

3 - when was it passed to the Bailiff

4 - on what dates were payments made and how much

 

As for the Bailiff, send off for a copy of their charges applied to your account, here's a sample - adapt and use at will send initially by email followed by post sent Signed For:

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

Charges for the Enforcement of NNDR are broadly similar to that of Council Tax. If this was his first visit then all you are due to pay is the 1st Visit Fee of £24-50 providing he did not make a levy/seize any goods - he cannot charge Waiting Time or Scratching His Bum Fee or Picking His Nose Fee as he can only charge what the Regulations allow.

 

PT

[scruffpot]

I am afraid that i may have messed up by paying him his charge was 150 per hour x2 1/2 hours while i was trying to borrow the money it was just getting more and more but i will do what you have said but at the moment i feel like curling up and dying.

[scruffpot]

sorry but i didn't thank you ,thank you

[ploddertom]

No problem, if and when you get your breakdown let us know and we'll pull it to bits - best for that is the Bailiff Forum - click the little black triangle and ask for it to be moved.

 

If you have overpaid it can be claimed back and for this you get 2 bites at the cherry. The Council are 100% liable for the actions of their contractor (Bailiff) and any overcharge is simply put on a N1 and submitted in the County Court where you name both Bailiffs and Council as co-defendants if they decide to get bolshy.

 

I suspect for what you have paid there could be a good case to make a Form 4 complaint against the Bailiff. Have you checked online to see if he is Certificated and therefore legally able to collect on your account. Here's a link to try this but please remember that it is not 100% accurate.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?210956-On-line-search-to-check-if-a-Bailiff-is-Certificated.....

 

PT

[hallowitch]

I am afraid that i may have messed up by paying him his charge was 150 per hour x2 1/2 hours while i was trying to borrow the money it was just getting more and more but i will do what you have said but at the moment i feel like curling up and dying.

 

 

ohhhh £150 per hour this bailiff needs well put in place on the dole £375 waiting time fee legislation does not allow a bailiff to to charge a waiting fee

 

most other bailiff who try it on with this fee try to charge about £50 have you checked to see if he is certificated

[slick132]

Moved into Bailiffs Forum as requested.

 

8)

[seanamarts]

who was the bailiff company he was working for, he has definitely over charged you with his fees, he is meant to carry ALL paper work and is meant to show you this. What he has done is not allowed and you should be placing a FORMAL COMPLAINT with the council's chief executive.

[night-watchman]

who was the bailiff company he was working for

 

Seanamarts it's phoenix collections, and as far as I can see from their web site they are debt collectors not bailiffs.

 

A quote from their debt collection page "Our telephone collectors and doorstep recovery agents have all been trained to meet the highest professional standards" - what a joke.

 

 

Scruffpot - try and write down everything you can about the incident including times if possible - the chances are his "phone call to the council" was totally bogus. Also did he show any form of ID or did the police check it when they arrived.

The more you write down the better - but remember keep to the facts only.

[seanamarts]

phoenix work as both debt collectors and bailiffs and have to say none stick to their codes of conduct, I dont even think they would know they have them

[scruffpot]

Hi thank you all that have given me some hope,yes now thinking back he must have called his office not the council also he never let me speak to whoever he spoke to.and yes the police did look at a card but he never showed it to me and as i said he told me that he didn't have to have anypaper work from the courts only his job sheet,even now when i think about it i feel so sick.do you think i would be able to retrive my money back.and would he have been allowed to start removing my good from the walls and stacking them up by the doors all he kept saying was the cost is going up then when his partner came with the van he was just as intimidting when i asked the police if this was allowed they just said yes. would he have had to show me a list of items that he was going to take,also when i told him that what he was taking was for my job eg computer and printer he just said so he was allowed to take whatevr he wanted.

[hallowitch]

don't worry you will (eventually ) get your money back once you receive a reply to the questions ploddertom posted we can help with letters

 

in the meantime find out who the chief executive and revenues manager of the council is as these are the people your complaint will be sent to

[scruffpot]

thank you hallowitch,i have called the council and followed the advice from ploddertom they are calling me back,once i have the information i will post it and would be greatfull for any help this has never happened to me before and i feel so drained i didn't go to work today either.

[caledfwlch]

Waiting time not provided for in Legislation? Fraud and a Police matter, surely?

[ploddertom]

Did they give you any paperwork including a receipt for payment?

 

PT

[scruffpot]

Hi Ploddertom They gave me a receipt for payment nothing eles no paperwork no copy of any sort of court papers as they told me they don't have to show me anything and they don't carry no paperwork.not even a breakdown of payments.

[seanamarts]

Hi Ploddertom They gave me a receipt for payment nothing eles no paperwork no copy of any sort of court papers as they told me they don't have to show me anything and they don't carry no paperwork.not even a breakdown of payments.

this is a complete load of bull

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1988/2050/article/12/made

Levy and Removal

 

12.—(1) Every bailiff levying a distress shall produce his certificate to the tenant if he is present or, in the absence of the tenant, to such other person present as appears to be in control of the premises.

 

(2) A bailiff levying distress shall deliver to the tenant, or leave on the premises where distress is levied, a memorandum in Form 7 identifying the bailiff and specifying in an Inventory the goods distrained on and setting out the amounts for which the distress is levied and the fees, charges and expenses authorised by these Rules and being actually and necessarily incurred under them.

 

(3) A bailiff or his agent attending to remove goods from the premises or withdrawing from possession prior to sale of the distrained goods shall deliver to the tenant or leave on the premises where distress is levied a memorandum in Form 9 setting out the expenses of removal authorised by and incurred under these Rules.

[seanamarts]

Also

 

 

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

 

 

Distress

 

45.—(1) Where a liability order has been made, the authority which applied for the order may levy the appropriate amount by distress and sale of the goods of the debtor against whom the order was made.

(2) The appropriate amount for the purposes of paragraph (1) is the aggregate of—

(a)an amount equal to any outstanding sum which is or forms part of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made, and

(b)a sum determined in accordance with Schedule 5 in respect of charges connected with the distress.

(3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

(4) Where an authority has seized goods of the debtor in pursuance of the distress, but before sale of those goods the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount, the sale shall not be proceeded with and the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor.

(5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into.

(6) A distress may be made anywhere in England and Wales.

(7) A distress shall not be deemed unlawful on account of any defect or want of form in the liability order, and no person making a distress shall be deemed a trespasser on that account; and no person making a distress shall be deemed a trespasser from the beginning on account of any subsequent irregularity in making the distress, but a person sustaining special damage by reason of the subsequent irregularity may recover full satisfaction for the special damage (and no more) by proceedings in trespass or otherwise.

(8) The provisions of this regulation shall not affect the operation of any enactment which protects goods of any class from distress.

(9) Nothing in the Distress (Costs) Act 1817(1), as extended by the Distress (Costs) Act 1827(2), (which makes provision as to the costs and expenses of the levying of certain distresses) shall apply to a distress under this regulation.

[scruffpot]

He never left a thing or showed me any type of list letter or anything eles he just walked into the shop and demanded payment and after hour it was just increaseing the debt the police couldn't do anything they just came when he called them they did comment on how much he had earned the the time he was there and they said that i should try and get my rates back from the council other than that they could not get involved

[ploddertom]

Sounds like a totally clueless and inept Dibble. Have you sent off to the Bailiffs yet for a breakdown of charges? This is the key to all this at present, the good thing is you have a receipt for payment.

 

PT

[seanamarts]

when you get your call back from said council make sure you quote the regulations that I have put in here, some council workers dont even know these exist, so make sure you point it out to them.

[night-watchman]

when you get your call back from said council make sure you quote the regulations that I have put in here, some council workers dont even know these exist, so make sure you point it out to them.

 

Just to add - make sure you get their name, because if they don't know the regulations or deny they exist then they obviously need re-training.

 

Sometimes you will be made a bigger liar than bailiffs, don't be put off, stand your ground and be persistant.

[scruffpot]

Hi i have wrote to phoenix asking for the beakdown of payments and i will give the council another call i have also emailed them but the reply was they will answer all calls and emails in 10 days.i think i might go there and ask.

[scruffpot]

This is the reply i got back from the council yesterday I have asked them to forward all copies of letters that they said i have had as to when they said i would be going to court.

 

1 - how much the Liability Order was for £519.54.00

2 - how much is still outstanding £135.00

3 - when was it passed to the Bailiff 25th Sept

4 - on what dates were payments made and how much April 67.17 June 70.00 Aug 100.00 Dec 146.60

I get a sbrr which was revised and the payments for 2009/2010 was 285.77 they have also said the the revised balance was sent to the bailiffs on 4thOct via email i still have an outsatanding amount of £135.00.

I was told that alot of people with SBRR have had the same trouble with the Bailiffs.I did tell the Bailiff that i have a reduction but he said he never knew anything about it.i know that i will not get any money back from the council but the amount that the bailiffs have taken do you think i might get that back, I hope that someone can help me or explain what has happened.I will not be able to reply to any questions until later.Thank you