Ross and Roberts R - ctax debts & vunerable too

[mark1arby]

Hi folks. I would appreciate any advice on what I should be doing now? I will be as brief as poss.

 

We paid Ross & Roberts over £1,200 in Council Tax arrears a while ago. This money was borrowed from my Mother in Law after two separate visits by them.

 

I wrote to the Council in very strong terms about this. My Wife later took a Call from the Council Tax people, who told her they would sort all at the monthly meetings they have with R & R, and the account was back with the Council. With the promise to sort it all out I didn`t bother following up our complaint.

 

I am disabled and suffer from depression, this made no difference to them. At the time of the second visit I was also suffering from Bird Flu, but he said he was having his money, we had 4 hours to get it or he would be removing our belongings.

 

At the beginning of September this year there was a visit from R & R wanting more money. I told him to hand it back to the Council and asked him to leave. He put the first letter in the letterbox and left.

 

My Wife called in at the Council Offices one morning shortly after to find out were this new amount owing had come from. she came home really happy, the woman she spoke to told her that the second bailiff who had bullied money out of us had been sent to London to work due to other complaints against him. She also told my Wife that all was sorted there was no monies owing and in fact because of my letter and now this new complaint, and due to the fact of my disabilities that we would be entitled to a rebate going back 4 years, since I have been in receipt of the higher level of DLA for Mobility. We took it that this would be sorted by the Council.

 

Which now brings us to Today. The second letter below was left after I had told this latest bully that it was all back with the Council and we owed nothing.

 

Obviously this is just a brief synopsis of events over a period of time. I will give further details as we go on.

 

Just as an aside, I have for the last 2 nights been getting used to the idea of having to wear a mask, and what is called a CPAP machine, which feeds air into me because I have now been diagnosed as suffering from Sleep Apnoea. I mention this because it is taking some getting used to as can be imagined. I have not slept and I am beginning to be walking with Churchills` "Black Dog " again, if you know what I mean? Really the last thing I need is this.

 

How do we deal with these people?

 

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Cheers MARK.

 

PS. don`t know how to edit out the details on the first letter now it is posted. Can somebody tell me how this is done please? It`s done thank you.

Edited December 2, 2010 by mark1arby
addition

[mark1arby]

Bump for the morning. Off to bed now. Thank you.

[dx100uk]

the fees are very suspect

 

you need to contact the council and ask how many and for what value EACH liabilty order was for

 

you are also classed as vunderable so it should not be handed out to bailiffs by the council at all!!

 

i've moved this thread to the bailiffs forum too.

 

dx

siteteam

[seanamarts]

I would advise your wife go straight back to the person she spoke to at the council and request why this is happening.

You clearly fall under the vulnerability status and this should be handed back to the council asap. Have you been sent a liability order from the council with this new amount.

[mark1arby]

Thank you for your help people. DX, I knew it was probably in the wrong place, thanks for moving the post. We will contact the Council now and let you know what is said.

 

What can we do about the fees? It seems because this time we have not let them in they are using the correct fees on their notices. The Mother in Law wants her money back, understandably. She used her credit card to pay the first 2 sums. Mrs Mark had to ring her twice and explain we had bailiffs at the door and what they were threatening. We can ill afford this at this time and obviously she can ill afford to be out of pocket.

 

Now my Wife is worried that she didn`t take on board what the woman at the Council told her properly. As she says, she was elated that we could be entitled to rebates etc.

 

Seanamarts, thanks for your input. It annoys me that the Council and R&R are fully aware of my vulnerable status. If R&R had any professionalism they would see the disabled bay outside our house, there is a notice on my door asking people to give me time to answer the door as I am disabled. As per usual they don`t give a Flying *uck, do they. To me it`s common dog, just back off and let`s sort this please.

 

We have not had any liability orders about this.

 

The Wife as spoken to the Council and the Bailiff. The woman she spoke to isn`t available but they will get in contact as soon as she is. LOL

 

The bailiff says he as this because there is an order that as been broken. I don`t understand this, as we have not had any notification of a hearing or received a liability order. He will wait to hear what the Council say, but they will not take it back. That being the case he can come to an arrangement himself, but would need £150 this afternoon. LMFAO I`ll leap away and print that off for him now.

 

Any further advice welcome please people.

 

Cheers MARK.

[fork-it]

What can we do about the fees? It seems because this time we have not let them in they are using the correct fees on their notices. The Mother in Law wants her money back, understandably. She used her credit card to pay the first 2 sums. Mrs Mark had to ring her twice and explain we had bailiffs at the door and what they were threatening..

 

You mum can do a chargeback under Section 75 of the consumner credit Act 1974 on two grounds.

 

1. The bailiff made a false representation as to how much money was legitimately owed.

2. The bailiff used threatening or intimidating behaviour to obtain the credit money transfer.

 

She contacts her bank and asks for a chargeback form.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/75

 

 

We have not had any liability orders about this.

 

The law says the council must send you a "final notice" or a "reminder" by post to your current address before making an application to a magistrate for a Liability order against you. As there is compelling evidence the council failed to do this, you can ask the council to roll the case back to pre-liability order stage and cease enforcement action immediately.

 

The law is Section 33(3) and 34(1) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992, http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/regulation/33/made

 

Contact the council and ask them to comply with Regulation 33(3) and 34(1), but if they are unwilling to do so, then you have a right to ask the Local Government Ombudsman to intervene. You can even ask for compensation, the award of this type of non-compliance by a council is typically about £100 per instance. Awards can be more if you have already received a bailiff or paid a sum of money to one.

[mark1arby]

Thank you forkit ( I like the play on words lol). We will follow this up ASAP.

 

It never rains!!! We have just lost our water supply!!! Frozen pipes ARRGGGHHH!!! Keep smiling Mark!!! LOL

[ploddertom]

There are some things you can do yourself this afternoon. ASAP ring the Council again and ask:

 

1 - How many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - How much each one is for

3 - How much is still outstanding on each one

4 - What periods of time do each cover

5 - For which address each one is for

6 - The date each were passed to the Bailiffs

 

If the Council are already aware of your vulnerable status and have accepted this then they are being deliberately obstructive. You therefore need to escalate this to someone in authority at the Council. The Chief Executive is a good place to start, you should also involve your local Councillor and should contact them this afternoon - preferably by phone. If your Councillor refuses or otherwise seems reluctant then refer immediately to the leader of the Council.

 

The Bailiff is being bolshy and you should contact their Office by email reminding them of their Code of Practice - here's a copy of it:

 

http://www.rossandroberts.com/policies/code-of-practice.php

 

PT

[dx100uk]

and another one bites the dust..........

 

dx

[mark1arby]

There are some things you can do yourself this afternoon. ASAP ring the Council again and ask:

 

1 - How many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - How much each one is for

3 - How much is still outstanding on each one

4 - What periods of time do each cover

5 - For which address each one is for

6 - The date each were passed to the Bailiffs

 

If the Council are already aware of your vulnerable status and have accepted this then they are being deliberately obstructive. You therefore need to escalate this to someone in authority at the Council. The Chief Executive is a good place to start, you should also involve your local Councillor and should contact them this afternoon - preferably by phone. If your Councillor refuses or otherwise seems reluctant then refer immediately to the leader of the Council.

 

The Bailiff is being bolshy and you should contact their Office by email reminding them of their Code of Practice - here's a copy of it:

 

http://www.rossandroberts.com/policies/code-of-practice.php

 

PT

 

Thank you VVV much for that PT. We are still waiting to be contacted by the Council. And I fear it is too late in the day, a case of T.F.I.F at the Council Offices.

 

I will write a good letter over the week end to the Chief Exec. We have already made complaint by phone and letter, so follows their complaints procedure. Local councillor will be copied in. Then see what happens and then contact local MP?

 

The Mother in Law will be very reticent in doing what is advised above. I asked her for the receipts from her credit card bill last year, but she dosen`t like people knowing her business. Trying to tell her I could get the money back if she gave me the receipts was a big No No to her. I have letters written up from this first time, to the Council, Bailiffs and one for the Police, that where never sent because I didn`t have the receipts.

 

Cheers MARK

[hallowitch]

did you ever ask for receive a breakdown of bailiff fees for the old debt you mother in law paid

[fork-it]

I dont think he needs a breakdown of fees because its already established the money transfer does not comply with legislation, he could use PT's non-£10 ACME letter and see the comeback.

 

Mark, your post doesnt say what extent your dissability is, but have a look anyway: http://www.dca.gov.uk/enforcement/agents02.htm#part10

 

If you need help from a professional body in dealing with bailiffs then Z2K might be able to help. http://www.z2k.org/supporting-vulnerable-households

[ploddertom]

 

If you need help from a professional body in dealing with bailiffs then Z2K might be able to help. http://www.z2k.org/supporting-vulnerable-households

 

I don't know whether things have changed but there was someone from this organisation who posted a while ago stating they could only help people who lived in the London area.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

Thank you VVV much for that PT. We are still waiting to be contacted by the Council. And I fear it is too late in the day, a case of T.F.I.F at the Council Offices.

 

 

You shouldn't wait for the Council, keep at them otherwise your mate will be knocking before you know it.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

 

The Mother in Law will be very reticent in doing what is advised above. I asked her for the receipts from her credit card bill last year, but she dosen`t like people knowing her business. Trying to tell her I could get the money back if she gave me the receipts was a big No No to her. I have letters written up from this first time, to the Council, Bailiffs and one for the Police, that where never sent because I didn`t have the receipts.

 

Cheers MARK

 

Don't know how long this sort of thing has been going on for you but are you aware you can ask for a breakdown of fees for any account up to 6 years old and reclaim any unlawful fees therein.

 

PT

[mark1arby]

Don't know how long this sort of thing has been going on for you but are you aware you can ask for a breakdown of fees for any account up to 6 years old and reclaim any unlawful fees therein.PT

 

No I was not aware of this. I will write to the Council and ask how many orders there are, how much each is for. Or would it be best to go in to the Council Offices or even phone them?

 

You shouldn't wait for the Council, keep at them otherwise your mate will be knocking before you know it. No one from the Council rang back, so will have to wait till Monday now. armed with this brilliant advice the bailiff will get short shrift if he turns up here. He would have done anyway. This advice just re enforces things.

 

I dont think he needs a Breakdown of fees because its already established the money transfer does not comply with legislation, he could use PT's non-£10 ACME letter and see the comeback.

What letter is this please, is it an SAR or something similar? I have a letter already done from earlier last year when we borrowed money from the Mother in Law asking for a breakdown of their fees etc. I didn`t send it because I thought I would need the credit card receipts to back up what I was saying and Mum would n`t give me them.

 

For a little clarity and alright a bit of sympathy would be OK at the moment guys (Sob, Sob). I suffer from severe Osteo Arthritis for which I receive a 60% War Pension. I can not walk far at all I am in constant pain. I alos suffer from Hydradenitis Supperativa ( you will have to look that one up) I was run over some 6 years ago which exacerbated all my afflictions. I am receiving treatment for mental health issues due to all of this and I am on some Heavy Duty Meds which also have some pretty grotty side affects. Oh yes, then there are the bladder problems, the enlarged prostate and high blood pressure etc. Apart from that I am Fit and Well. LOL. I have also just been diagnosed as having Sleep Apnoea ( That`s a great one. Honest!) So to say the least I am some what differently enabled. I was fit as *UCK all the way through my time in the RN. So I have found it all quite difficult to deal with at times. The worst thing is the meds. don`t make it easy for me to concentrate, they slow my mind right down, and I HATE that. Sorry, may be I shouldn`t have written that down, but it actually helps to do that now and again. AND I am no where near as bad off as some of the Lads and Lasses in the forces now. They are TRUE HEROS and are my inspiration for coping.

 

Cheers all thanks for the help. MARK

[ploddertom]

Here's a sample of a letter to send to the Bailiffs asking for a breakdown of fees. Use and adapt as necessary, send a copy via email and put one in the post using Signed For:

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

PT

[mark1arby]

Brilliant!!! Cheers again PT. A font as usual.

 

Cheers MARK

[ploddertom]

I would urge you to get your local Councillor involved to help you. In my view you can do this 7 days a week up until 9pm. If they refuse or appear reluctant get onto the Leader of the Council or the leader of their Political party at the Council. Where possible invite them to your home and show them this website. Your Councillor has direct access to those at the Council who can stop this. A good example of this can be seen in this thread - read Post 28

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?284582-Unpaid-Council-Tax-after-split-with-partner&p=3210445&viewfull=1#post3210445

 

PT