SOGA Advice - Second Hand Laptop

[dr_damo]

Morning. I hope I've put this in the right section, please don't jump on me if I haven't!

 

The Problem:

 

We purchased a second hand Dell laptop (mistake number 1) from an independent retailer as the price looked great and the spec was fantastic…..We paid £380 plus vat (£450) + £50 for the transfer of data from our old Toshiba machine (which was dead).

 

One month in, the PC locks up and refuses to display anything other than a pink/green screen with no characters. In addition, the remote control and headphone ports have also been found not to be working. We take it in, under warranty, and the guy says it's fixable and works on it. We get it back, it breaks a couple of weeks later and the headphone/remote issue has still not been solved. We've taken it in 4 times, 4 times it's not been fixed properly. It's gone again. This 5th time I've suggested the owner refunds us our money in full.

 

He refuses, he'll pay us £350. I suggested that this isn't correct and that he should pay us the full amount of money and transfer the data from the Dell for free (and if he still has it our old machine back might be nice). He cites depreciation, I say no.

 

In summary:

1) I've contacted Trading Standards and have a reference number

2) I've given this guy 4 chances to fix

3) He's offered a replacement machine (I don't want, I don't trust it not to go wrong)

4) He's offered some of the money back (I don't want, I want a full refund)

 

I'm concerned that if I go to small claims I'll be pulled up on the fact I didn't take a replacement machine after he's offered it. My argument is that he's shown he's incapable of fixing the Dell (I think it's an NVIDIA graphics card problem, which means it left the shop as faulty goods….the NVIDIA problem is well known) and why would I want the hassle and inconvenience of having to deal with him again should this replacement machine develop a fault?

 

If anyone can offer any advice on:

 

1) Should I hold my ground and ask for a full refund, data transfer and old machine?

2) If I make a small claims court claim through SOGA 1979 will the offer of a replacement machine instead of a full refund be held against me? (given that I've given the guy 4 chances to fix the problem?)

3) Pie/Crumble?

 

Thanks in advance.

[rebel11]

Hi dr

 

Welcome for CAG

 

At this stage don't think about taking him to court. You are aware of SOGA, it's perfectly reasonable for you to ask for a refund under the circumstances. You haven't mentioned dates of the various events.

Depending on when and how you purchased it, you could do a Chargeback.

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/your-rights-when-paying-by-credit-card/chargeback-on-credit-and-debit-cards

 

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/know-your-rights/SGAknowyourrights/

 

Send the appropriate letter, send it Recorded.

 

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/making-complaint/template-letters/

[dr_damo]

I should also say, I've spoken to him a number of times in the last 3 or 4 days by phone. I've given him the chance to discuss with his business partner, they offered the £350 yesterday. I told them this wasn't acceptable and he should go away and discuss with his partner again. I've also said that if I don't get a full refund today that I would write this letter with all the details of what's happened and then give them a course of action (which would be 14 days to respond with full refund otherwise I'll press for small claims). He's aware that if he doesn't pay up this will end up going that way.

 

I'm still a bit concerned about me saying no to the offer of a replacement machine.

[rebel11]

Clearly there is an inherent problem with the laptop that you've purchased. You've had it repaired numeous times. You have given them ample opportunity to fix it.

To offer you a replacement has come too late. They could of offered you it a lot earlier, so you have justification in declining it. It's also confidence in them and

there products.

 

Some of the other guys will also respond.

 

I should also say, I've spoken to him a number of times in the last 3 or 4 days by phone. I've given him the chance to discuss with his business partner, they offered the £350 yesterday. I told them this wasn't acceptable and he should go away and discuss with his partner again. I've also said that if I don't get a full refund today that I would write this letter with all the details of what's happened and then give them a course of action (which would be 14 days to respond with full refund otherwise I'll press for small claims). He's aware that if he doesn't pay up this will end up going that way.

 

I'm still a bit concerned about me saying no to the offer of a replacement machine.

[stoobind]

hi there i'm currently in the same boat with an internet retailer selling 'refurbished' laptops and have recived lots of very clear advice from nvidiadefect forum check them out

[dr_damo]

Right. I've sent 2 letters plus the final letter that says "respond or I'll have to take you to court". I have heard nothing back from him, I went in to visit him today and ask why he hadn't responded and to see if he would change his mind. He hasn't.

He will pay 350 quid. Which I have to wait for two weeks while he resells this machine....

That's not right. Is it?

 

I'm concerned that processing this claim in the small claims court will be:

a) long winded

b) will result in the judge/adjudicator saying that the full refund shouldn't be returned.

c) the guy won't pay up

 

To get my full cost back, 450 quid, I'll have to pay 35 quid plus wait a couple of months. If I take the offer on the table I'll be condoning his behaviour of selling a dodgy machine on to someone else.

 

Helpful advice greatly appreciated here.

[stoobind]

hello dr damo, if you wish to hang fire for a short while i'm currently in the process of taking the independent retailer i bought my ' reconditioned' dell with nividia defect from to the small claims court, it might serve you as a a good test of how 'reconditioned' systems fair under the SOGA?

 

i don't know the time frame as yet but will update when i know more

[dr_damo]

I've decided the following, based on an evaluation of my time etc.

 

I'm happy to draw an end to this now with £350 in my hand immediately. If, however, I have to wait 2 weeks until he sells a broken machine on to someone, then I'll say "no, that's not right, and you leave me with no other alternative but to resolve this through legal channels".

 

I know that taking the £350 could be seen as him "winning". But. I don't know if I can spare the time, he's a slippery bugger and I might not get my money after the verdict (he's claiming cash flow problems), this course of action doesn't prevent me from telling people to never use that shop.

[dr_damo]

Well. To update.

The seller decided not to meet me in the middle. He offered only £350 and I'd have to wait until he sold. I decided to press through with small claims.

I've issued a ccj and I've still heard NOTHING from the seller. I'll be issuing a warrant next I guess, that'll be another £100 to the total.

Any info on the next stages would be great.

[Cardiff Devil]

Has this actually been heard in court yet? I wouldn't have thought so given the time scales.

[dr_damo]

Not in court yet. I've called the helpline and they said that it's up to me when I call in the bailiff.

I requested immediate payment.

 

timeline:

I've sent letters informing him of the path I was taking.

I've issued a CCJ and have heard nothing back (is there a time I should give before pressing the "issue warrant" button?)

 

Any info, thanks!

[Cardiff Devil]

Right, I think you may have gotten your wires crossed somewhere.

 

Normal procedure is as follows;

 

 

• Contact the seller (preferably in writing via recorded delivery) stating your demands and your reasons for doing so. Give them 14 days to respond.
  
• If you don't receive a response, or are fobbed off, send another letter titled "LETTER BEFORE ACTION" or "FINAL NOTICE BEFORE LEGAL ACTION", stating that they have failed to respond favourably to your request, and you are giving them 14 days to respond before you commence legal proceedings through the County Courts.
  
• If they don't respond to this, or fob you off again, register with Money Claim Online and register your case. This is very easy to do but you have to pay a fee, this will be added to the cost of your claim automatically. The courts will then contact the seller, giving them a chance to submit a defence or pay up.
  
• If they don't respond to these documents within a set time, or file an acknowledgement of service for an extension, the court will most likely rule a "judgement in default" and issue an official order (the CCJ) to the other party to pay up within a set time (usually 28 days).
  
• Only then, if they refuse to pay up, will you need to apply to begin enforcement proceedings, this can involve bailiffs etc.
  

Sorry if I've missed anything there.

[dr_damo]

Right, I think you may have gotten your wires crossed somewhere.

I thought so

 

 

• Contact the seller (preferably in writing via recorded delivery) stating your demands and your reasons for doing so. Give them 14 days to respond.
   
  Have done this. Gave him multiple opportunities to respond and then met him before sending
  
• If you don't receive a response, or are fobbed off, send another letter titled "LETTER BEFORE ACTION" or "FINAL NOTICE BEFORE LEGAL ACTION", stating that they have failed to respond favourably to your request, and you are giving them 14 days to respond before you commence legal proceedings through the County Courts.
  this
   
   
  
• If they don't respond to this, or fob you off again, register with Money Claim Online and register your case. This is very easy to do but you have to pay a fee, this will be added to the cost of your claim automatically. The courts will then contact the seller, giving them a chance to submit a defence or pay up.
   
   
  They haven't responded
   
   
   
  
• If they don't respond to these documents within a set time, or file an acknowledgement of service for an extension, the court will most likely rule a "judgement in default" and issue an official order (the CCJ) to the other party to pay up within a set time (usually 28 days).
   
   
  They've issued a CCJ, I asked for Immediate payment.
   
   
   
   
  
• Only then, if they refuse to pay up, will you need to apply to begin enforcement proceedings, this can involve bailiffs etc.
  They've not responded yet. I thought I'd give 2 weeks, given that this has been ongoing since November.
  

 

I think I'm at Bailiff stage then?

Edited March 9, 2011 by dr_damo

[Cardiff Devil]

Okay, just so I've got my facts clear. They haven't responded to any of the paperwork, the case has been put before a judge who has ruled in your favour and issued a judgement by default?

 

If so, and it's been 28 days since the judgement was issued, then yes, you can contact the court to arrange a warrant of execution.

[dr_damo]

It certainly seems that way, 28 days it is then....

 

Thanks.

[dr_damo]

Argh. This is so frustrating. I knew he was slippery. But still.

I issued a warrant on 10th March. In the name of the business, Electronic Island UK Ltd. (Which is still active according to Company House).

The court bailiffs went round, he's allegedly trading as a new business. Even though the shop signs are the same, he answers the phone in the same name. He's apparently changed VAT numbers and is now a new business. According to the bailiff who saw letterheads etc.

 

I'm going to reissue a warrant, but I think I'm a bit screwed here.

Help?