query regarding unenforceability

[pl26]

Hi,if anyone can advise on my query i would be most grateful, i'l try to keep it brief and simple so here goes... i entered into a credit agreement in 1997 it was a rolling/ongoing type of account not a fixed sum.after losing my job i defaulted on it.ever since i have been paying Blair oliver scott (bank of scotland) £10 per month in repayments.last month it was passed to,or bought by Iqor debt recovery,who contacted me with the usual pay up or else thing.so i requested a CCA,back it came eventually and i believe the agreement to be unenforceable,but thats not my query,my question is,if this agreement is unenforceable would i have grounds to go back to Lloyds/BOS and ask for a refund of any monies i paid them.

Thanks for reading this far,and i hope it makes sense:-)

[Tingy]

I can't find an answer to this. I would hope the answer is yes - if you overpay tax you can claim it back, if you ovverpay for an item in a shop they'll refund you, so I don't see why if an agreement is not enforceable you shouldn't be able to claim payments already made. HOWEVER, and I think this is where it may fall to piece, the agreement was unenforceable, but you signed it and agreed to pay. If you'd never paid a penny then they could not chase you, but that does not necessarily mean you can get back what you have paid.

[firstship]

Hi..pl26............ nice idea,regret NO,if the account is unenforceable you can stop paying as I am sure you are aware,how sure are you that it is unenforceable?????????????If Iqor bought the debt you should have received a Notice of Assignment,which can be a line in a letter from Iqor stating they have purchased the debt............FS.........................TINGY.... like your logical thinking Im on your side,THINK OF ALL THE REFUNDS WE COULD GO FOR?????

[postggj]

Ime afraid the answer is no

 

its called unjust enrichmnt

 

you have acknowledged the debt by making the repayments

 

sorry

[Tingy]

Having established an answer to that question, can I ask a similar but different one please?

 

3 years ago we had trouble with Council Tax, did all the bailiffs bit and ended up with it settled but it had cost us a fortune and put us through hell. Keep in mind this is all settled now. However, now I've got some knowledge and fight I've SAR'd the council and the bailiffs with a view to reclaiming unfair charges. Do you think I've got any hope? I'm going to try anyway, it'll be fun, but would be interested in others opinions.

[pl26]

Thank you all for your help,it was a bit of a long shot but as they say "you don't ask-you don't get" just as a bit of an update to the story,i never received a notice of assignment from Iqor and when i first requested the CCA they only sent me photocopied statements along with another pay up or else note,i replied to them saying the CCa request had not been fully complied with due to them not supplying a signed agreement for the debt being pursued,they then sent a copy of the agreement but with no APR or rate of interest listed (that would be my query on enforceability)but more interestingly they also sent a separate letter offering a substantial discount on the debt but only if i came to an agreement within 72 hours,otherwise it's back to threats of debt collectors knocking on my door etc.etc.

[Tingy]

I'm always very suspicious of offers of a large discount. It makes me question why?

[pl26]

Me too! i intend to write to them stating that i believe the agreement is unenforceable and and see what happens next.i'l update as things progress.Just as a point of interest the amount owing is 139.78

[firstship]

They are aware by sending a reconstituted agreement they are in compliance with the law as it currently stands,however they are also aware the recon agreement is unlikely( although not bullet proof) to hold up in court,hence I would guess the letter of substantial discount for settlement would perhaps indicate they do not have an agreement.If I read your thread correctly you say the amount of the debt is £139.78,can I ask what the discount offered is????????????.Also at this point you are unsure if Iqor own the debt,did Blair Oliver Scott or the OC write to you to say the debt has been sold to Iqor or passed to them for administration................Blair Oliver are the in house debt collectors for Halifax Bank of Scotland....there are a number of ???????? to be answered dependant on your answers we can perhaps give you best route to take.............all the very best............FS

[pl26]

Hi firstship,what happened was i had been paying Blair,olivier,scott via direct debit,fair enough i took on the debt i had to repay it i never had a problem with that there was a problem with the D/D and about 2 months payments were missed,then without any notiification of the debt been sold or passed to Iqor for collection i started receiving the usual collection letters and phone calls 3 or 4 times a day from Iqor,the most recent letter offering a substantial discount does'nt say how much discount will be given,or how much i will have to pay,it ends with the statement "if you do not contact our office within 72 hours we will assume you have no intention of paying this debt and will continue with debt collection action including sending a debt collector to your address"

The only information on the contract they sent me apart from the usual legal wording is my name,with the surname wrongly spelt,my address with the town wrongly spelt,the date,my signature and the creditor signature.

[firstship]

Hi pl26.............first never arrange a DD with the likes of Blair Oliver & Scott,or any other DCA ,use a Standing Order which you have control over,with a DD they can take what they like up to a point.The contract that Iqor have sent with the mis-spelling you can dispute that you are the person indicated ,check the library under Debt collection Library on this site there is a letter that covers this situation,this is one course of action,....the 72 hour and threats of debt collector calling are the usual threatograms,wait until they reply to your prove it letter.................FS

[pl26]

Thanks firstship,i found just the right letter to send,i'l give them there 72 hours and see what happens next,but i'l have the letter printed and in an envelope ready to go as soon as the next call or letter arrives

[Tingy]

Sounds like you're moving forward well. Also sounds to me like the DCA is a bit desperate and hasn't a whole lot to go on.

[firstship]

pl26................ditto..............with luck you will drive the way forward,not the DCA..................FS

[Mr Worried]

Hi Tingy

 

I have done the same SAR'd the council and the B too, awaiting outcome, but I have recieved calls from the B ( Rossies ) since I SAR'd them and I just ignore their calls. looking forward to their replies.

 

 

 

Having established an answer to that question, can I ask a similar but different one please?

 

3 years ago we had trouble with Council Tax, did all the bailiffs bit and ended up with it settled but it had cost us a fortune and put us through hell. Keep in mind this is all settled now. However, now I've got some knowledge and fight I've SAR'd the council and the bailiffs with a view to reclaiming unfair charges. Do you think I've got any hope? I'm going to try anyway, it'll be fun, but would be interested in others opinions.

[Tingy]

Hi Tingy

 

I have done the same SAR'd the council and the B too, awaiting outcome, but I have recieved calls from the B ( Rossies ) since I SAR'd them and I just ignore their calls. looking forward to their replies.

 

Hi Mr W,

Keep me informed of how you get on. I've had the SAR back from the council, but the one I really want is from the bailiffs - they have until Tuesday 7th December. If they haven't replied I'm intending pursuing the council as I have it in writing from them that they would ensure the bailiffs complied, and despite it being long since resolved I assume the vicariously liable argument still stands.

[Mr Worried]

Will do T.

Mr

 

 

 

Hi Mr W,

Keep me informed of how you get on. I've had the SAR back from the council, but the one I really want is from the bailiffs - they have until Tuesday 7th December. If they haven't replied I'm intending pursuing the council as I have it in writing from them that they would ensure the bailiffs complied, and despite it being long since resolved I assume the vicariously liable argument still stands.

[pl26]

been having a closer look at the "original agreement" Iqor sent me and it looks as if the signature panel has been lifted from a different agreement as the top and bottom parts of the agreements are from 2 different documents! You wouldnt see it by just looking at the sheet as a whole,but if you actually read it the text isnt continuous it ends mid paragraph then theres the signature panel and the text continues below it in the middle of a completely different paragraph!Had another 3 calls today,was going to send the letter disputing the agreement today,but its absolutely freezing and snowy up here and im not going out in that for this bunch of to**pots,they will be getting it though.

[firstship]

It will not be the first time that a DCA has lifted a signature..................however earlier in your thread you said they sent a photo copy of the agreement,which I thought was a reconstituted version......as you are sending a prove it letter to Iqor,let them deal with this first............then you can dispute the signature should they actually prove that the debt is yours...all the very best..FS

[creditcardmug]

In my experience Iqor dont buy the "debts", they just act for the OC in trying to collect

My belief is that you are at the beginning of a long road of this being passed to various DCAs, none of which will ever produce any hard evidence

 

If what they have sent you is unenforceable, then it is and always will be in a court of law

 

Yes DCAs do lift sigs etc, and lots of other tricks

[pl26]

Thanks everyone for sharing your advice and experience,i only discovered this forum about a week ago,but i can't tell you how much of a source of help and support it has been already,just knowing that you can come on the site and share what's been happening with regards to DCA's,debt problems etc,as i'm sure you know you can feel like your the only one going through it at times,so coming on here and realising your not alone(i really don't mean that to sound as cheesy as it looks written down:-))is a great help.Anyway,enough of that,back to poking Iqor with a sharp stick:-)

[Mr Worried]

Hi pl26, it does sound a bit cheesy, LOL.

 

Welcome aboard your in safe hands.

 

Mr Cheeky

 

 

 

Thanks everyone for sharing your advice and experience,i only discovered this forum about a week ago,but i can't tell you how much of a source of help and support it has been already,just knowing that you can come on the site and share what's been happening with regards to DCA's,debt problems etc,as i'm sure you know you can feel like your the only one going through it at times,so coming on here and realising your not alone(i really don't mean that to sound as cheesy as it looks written down:-))is a great help.Anyway,enough of that,back to poking Iqor with a sharp stick:-)