got a PCN in the post from a morrisons car park

[flojons]

I was parked in a morrisons supermarket car park. I did get a ticket from the machine. It was one of the new style machines where you have to enter the vehicle reg no. Anyway after I left I discarded the ticket because i did not get a pcn from a parking attendant. To my suprise, i later received a pcn letter in the post which explained that the cctv showed I parked without making a payment. I asked them to check the machines to see if there is a record of my vehicle reg being enterred. They replied back with photo evidence of my car arriving and leaving. The letter also stated that if i dont pay within 4 days, which is when the 2 week early payment ends, the full fee will be payable.

 

Two things. If i did not keep the said ticket is there any way of proving i did? So it means i have to pay the charge?

 

Secondly regarding the two week deadline. I was under the impression that once someone appeals, the two week early payment deadline is suspended untill the full process is exhausted. So why are they telling me I have 4 days from the date of the letter I received today? Could I appeal against that as well?

 

Finally, could the pcn by letter be a con? Most people will not keep their parking tickets after leaving a car park if they did not have a pcn issued on the screen. So they will not have a leg to stand on after receiving the letter?

[patdavies]

This is not a PCN; it is simply an unenforceable invoice.

 

The advice is as follows:-

 

1) Ignore;

2) ignore;

3) refer to (1)

 

You will get a series of ever-increasing threatograms which you can safely continue to ignore. Eventually, they will give up and concentrate on an easier target

 

If you do decide to pay, could you let me have your address so I can send you a similar demand for payment - it would have exactly the same authority

[asmodeus]

Yes it is a con and all you have is an invoice

 

There is no appeals service - if you write all you will get is an 'appeal declined' letter send us yer money and it will tell them that there is someone they may be able to scare into paying a rediculous sum of money

 

Best advice (from personal experience) is to ignore everything they send

 

CCTV / Photos prove nothing

 

Read through the various threads if in doubt - was it Parking Eye ?

[flojons]

yes the company is parking eye. When i was there, they had tow trucks removing vehicles without tickets displayed. Well they only have untill the end of the year before the new law kicks in prohibiting private contractors from towing away or clamping vehicles, so maybe they are milking it.

 

So if it is an unenforceable invoice, why does not the local authorities or whoever is responsible, ban them doing so, or prosecute them for fraud? Surely parking attendants should issue pcn on car windscreens to remove all doubt and not cctv? Its not like red routes or bus lanes, but a private car park.

[Jamberson]

So if it is an unenforceable invoice, why does not the local authorities or whoever is responsible, ban them doing so, or prosecute them for fraud? Surely parking attendants should issue pcn on car windscreens to remove all doubt and not cctv? Its not like red routes or bus lanes, but a private car park.

 

The local authorities don't ban it because they have no authority to. It is a private company going about its business. They can't be prosecuted for fraud because they aren't committing fraud. They are claiming breach of contract and invoicing you as a penalty. This isn't fraudulent - they don't say you are legally in debt to them - but it is deceptive.

 

I don't quite understand your point about parking attendants. PCNs are issued by Civil Enforcement Officers - yours (and others like it) are not PCNs, but are usually issued by someone who could be described as a parking attendant. You would rather they stuck them on the vehicle than rely on cctv? I don't see the relevance. It's still just an invoice which can't be enforced. What difference would it make?

[Wriggler7]

Before getting all 'righteous', make sure of the solid facts. There are some (and I do not know if this is one or not) car parks which 'look like' they are 'Morrisons' which are ticketted/'policed' by local authority parking wardens.

 

Many of the big supermarket chains manage to get planning consent for their stores by entering into various Faustian pacts with local authorities. I know of one where ther agreement involves Morrisons paying for the development of the site, and their funding for extra local authority wardens. Before choosing to ignore a 'parking fine', read all the small print on it to determine on what authority it was issued.

[flojons]

The local authorities don't ban it because they have no authority to. It is a private company going about its business. They can't be prosecuted for fraud because they aren't committing fraud. They are claiming breach of contract and invoicing you as a penalty. This isn't fraudulent - they don't say you are legally in debt to them - but it is deceptive.

 

I don't quite understand your point about parking attendants. PCNs are issued by Civil Enforcement Officers - yours (and others like it) are not PCNs, but are usually issued by someone who could be described as a parking attendant. You would rather they stuck them on the vehicle than rely on cctv? I don't see the relevance. It's still just an invoice which can't be enforced. What difference would it make?

 

What I meant is, I did have the ticket purchased from the machine on my dashboard, so a Parking Attendant would not have issued a PCN. If they did I would have appealed using the ticket has proof. I have done this in the past, when the ticket slipped out of sight. So why use cctv when it can tell that the driver did buy a ticket? By posting the invoice letter afterwards, when most people would have discarded the ticket, to me smacks of some kind of fraud or attempted racketeering.

[Surfer01]

Morrisons in Kidderminster tried this and lost. They tried to make iti look official by saying that the planning office had granted them permission to instal machines. I contacted the council and queried it and council stated in writing nothing to do with them. Taking information from CAG I wrote a letter to the local rag and they published it in full along with all the statutes. Needless to say Morrisons in Kidderminster no longer operate their machines! Victory for CAG! 8)