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HFO Court claim unknown debt with no credit agreement


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Hello There i just came across this site and would really appreciate some advice please.

HFO capital have been chasing me for a debt they say i owe from a loan with Welcome finance which is now in the region of nearly £17,000 as they say they have owned it for nearly 3 years and have added interest etc..

As far as i am aware i never had a loan with welcome finance unless it was taken out without me knowing.

I sent them a CCA request and they ignored it and issued a County Court claim N1, I wrote back to the court stating i do not acknowledge any debt to this company or welcome finance.

They do not appear to have a credit agreement to show what the debt is for and all they have been able to supply is a Direct Debit mandate and a statement of account.

I have received a Standard Order for stay for settlement with consent of all the parties from the court.

Can anybody please advise me on what I should do next.

Also on checking my credit file it shows the Default which was a few years ago but it has only just appeared on my file as i regularly check it.

Thank you in advance

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Hi SFO

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will advise as soon as they are available.

Edited by citizenB
misleading title amended
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Hello, HFO - one of my favourite outfits. As a starting point can you post a copy of the County Court Summons and your defence - with anything that might identify you redacted - can you confirm the date of the order - so we know how much time you've got

Edited by citizenB

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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IGNM, hello and welcome back!

 

Can you give us more details please? Eg, what was on the PoC, what correspondence you had prior to the issuing of the case, exact name and address of the claimant, supposed date of assignment?

Edited by citizenB
misleading title amended

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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You can't have a stay and a settlement in the same order, it sounds like they are trying to abuse the court processes here.

 

The HFO fanclub will be coming on board during today to help out.

 

At the very least you should be able to get a set aside on this. I bet they used an old address then quickly changed it to your new one, you can prove this by providing a copy of your credit file as evidence (and including the costs of obtaining this in your costs application).

Edited by citizenB
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Don’t think there’s a CCJ yet – the title is misleading.

Edited by citizenB
misleading title amended

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Claim is stayed to attempt settlement. I would advocate disclosure CPR to see what the Claimant has based its claim on in this instance.

If you could scan or type the P.o.C.

 

Regards

Andy

Edited by citizenB
misleading title amended

We could do with some help from you.

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Are you sure it isn't to attempt mediation? This seems to becoming more common.

 

If it is to attempt settlement then I would say in HFO's case that they don't have the jurisdiction to bring a claim due to the length of time between them buying the debt and 'finding' the claimant... and that the intrest is excessive amongst other points.

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I have received a Standard Order for stay for settlement with consent of all the parties from the court.

 

 

Mediation is to attempt settlement, same difference.

A claimant can issue a claim at any time there is no time restriction from purchase to litigation apart from SB

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited by citizenB
misleading title amended

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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Hello' date=' HFO - one of my favourite outfits. As a starting point can you post a copy of the County Court Summons and your defence - with anything that might identify you redacted - can you confirm the date of the order - so we know how much time you've got[/quote']

Subbing and nice to see you around IGNM:-D

Edited by citizenB
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US President Barack Obama referred to Ugland House as the biggest building in the world or the biggest tax SCA* in the world.

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Thanks for everybodys quick responses, I may be misleading you with the Title i dont have the CCJ registered against me at present i am trying to respond to the N1 claim form.

 

I will digg out the paperwork and advise from start to finish what has happened so far.

 

Again thanks for all your help.

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But surely you have responded to the N1? How else would you get a court order?

 

You need to clarify exactly what’s going on here.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Hello everyone sorry if this is a bit long winded not sure if im supposed to write this much info, Apologies if im not supposed too.

Phone calls started early April 2010 from a annoying man called Mr Singh from HFO stating I owed monies for a loan, I told him a knew nothing of this but he didn’t care and went on to say that my house would be at risk etc.

15th April 2010 I received a letter from HFO with a bundle of papers including a nice google streets picture of my neighbour’s house! Land registry info etc.

It says the debt was sold to them in feb 2008 and they have tried to contact me by phone and addresses available to them but only in vain. The amount in this letter is for £19811.10 and the claim form says £17,478.20 so two different amounts.

There credit search indicates I own a property and they have 3 options, Secure a charge, agree a settlement, agree a reasonable payment plan.

From there info the loan was taken out at an address I lived at a few years before.

I sent them a CCA request with the £1 fee as I didn’t know what this loan was for and Mr Singh could not tell me either.

Didn’t hear another thing until I had a County claim form sent to me 26th July 2010 I responded to it saying: “I do not acknowledge any debt to Welcome or HFO, I have asked them to provide a signed credit agreement but they have failed to do this, I have attached a letter I sent requesting the agreement.”

20th August 2010 I received a letter from Turnbull Rutherford Solicitors acknowledging safe receipt of my defence.

1st Sep 2010 Another letter from Turnbull, Inclosing

  1. Signed copy of the loan agreement
  2. Signed copy of the DD mandate
  3. Copy of Default Notice from Welcome
  4. Copy statements relating to my account

The loan agreement consists of two pages with an agreement number branch name and a box ticked misc correspondent.

The second part is the same but letter written on it and a tick these two are not Loan agreements but some sort of fax header! Sorry I cant post anything up as I am a new user.

DD form with unknown bank details (Not my bank)

Default notice from welcome to an old address in April 2005/

Hire purchase loan statement starting 31/01/2005 ending 23/08/2007 last entry Full Write Off credit £4090.30

10th November 2010

I received Standard order for settlement with consent of all the parties (N24)

District judge orders that this claim stayed until 1st December 2010 to enable parties to attempt settlement.

On or before 17 th November 2010

Either

The claimant must notify the court that the whole of the claim has been settled

Or

The claimant or defendant must write to the court requesting an extension of the stay period, explaining the steps being taken towards the settlement and identifying any mediator export or other person helping with the process.

The letter should confirm the agreement of all parties.

Or all the parties must file a completed allocation questionnaire at the court. Where a settlement of some of the issues in dispute has been reached, a list of those should be attached to the completed questionnaire. The list must be agreed with the other parties and must indicate that it has been agreed.

Date 3 November

The form was dated 10 November 2010 at the top and I received it Saturday 13th Nov.

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Most important issue: Are you saying this loan was taken out fraudulently in your name at an old address? Had you left the address when the loan was taken out? Was it rented accommodation?

 

If so, your first port of call is the police. They will issue a crime number.

 

Court action is in progress, so that will have to be dealt with; but once you have a crime number, and inform HFO, you should invite them to make further enquiries themselves and then discontinue their claim, otherwise you will be seeking damages.

 

Their pre-action protocols seem pretty ropey too. Unfortunately, your defence was not a great one, but the judge has provided some leeway.

 

One of your first actions must be to write to the court requesting an extension and stating the reasons why (ie. gathering evidence to demonstrate the loan is not yours).

 

Did you not use CPR?

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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I am not completely ruling out taking a loan back in 2003 as I had various debts and things back then being young and stupid, This was my parents old address which they lived at until 2006 I have a clean Credit record apart from this HFO Default which has been registered lately. I wanted to have a look at the Credit agreement so I could see what this loan was for as it appears it was for Hire Purchases from what the loan statement says. I was advised without a signed Credit agreement they cannot pursue the debt?? Sorry for my ignorance but what is a CPR?

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I would suggest you contact your bank at the time for copy statements to see if you did receive the loan. Personally I know every loan I’ve ever taken out, and that’s plenty – can’t really advise much more until you do some of your own legwork.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Hi The bank details they have on one of there peices of infomation they sent is deffinatly not mine and is a bank name i dont use or never have, but i am 100% i never had a loan back then for over £5000 i took loads of credit back then that was offered to me and believe they have all been paid back. If i could see the credit agreement which has all the deatils on which this loan relates too it would possibly jog my memory. So can you confirm whether or not they do actually need to have the Credit agreement to fully go through with this as they have still not told me what type of loan this is and what it was actually for Personal Loan car credit etc.

 

Thanks

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Now that it has gone to court, you should have used CPR (Civil Procedure Rules) to request the information to which you are entitled.

 

I’m puzzled, because you have already said HFO have sent you a signed agreement?

 

Get these items scanned so you can post them. You’ll need 20 posts to do this, so post any old rubbish on here to get there. ‘Wibble’ or ‘Bump’ will do.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Hi there, No sorry what i said was on there letter it says they have inclosed what they call a signed credit agreement but that it actuall is is two sheets which say WFS - Loan Agrrement front sheet Dated: 14/04/05, Agreement Number: xxxxxxx Branch Name xxxxxxxxx Branch Number xxxxxxxx Number of sheet excluding Front Sheet: 001 And various boxes to tick the one on mine is Misc Correpondance which is ticked the second page is exactly the same but the words letter written on it and a tick next to it. They are by no means what they refer to as a credit agreement. they dont have amounts or terms or anything of that nature they are like fax header sheets thats whats realy confusing!!

 

Is there any way i can send somebody a scanned copy of these sheets they call a credit agrrement as i am unablr to post as being a new user??

 

Thankyou

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As mentioned above, just post ‘bump’ again and again until you get 20 posts. You have to wait 30 seconds between each.

 

Use photobucket.com or similar and post the image code inline.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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OK, just to clarify. They wrote to you on 1 September, claiming these two bits of junk comprised the loan agreement?

 

Clearly, as you say, they are nonsense. But they are cover sheets for other documents which they have not sent, presumably. I would suggest a rapid letter back to HFO making clear they have NOT sent any agreements and to please send the signed agreements by return.

 

In the meantime, if you are sure you did not take the loan out, you must get in touch with the police.

 

What was on the copy statements? Did they give any indication of payments?

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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It’s quite clear that one of those is a cover sheet for the bank DD. The other is for a two-page default notice. Is that right? The default notice has two pages?

 

Then they simply have not sent the supposed agreement.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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I also find it odd that their forms have different heading layouts.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Yes that is correct they say that this is suffice as i called the guy on the letter and he says that the dd mandate was proof that i had the loan but still could not tell what type of credit it was for. i will add the statement omitting all personal info.

 

Thanks very much

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