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Lyndell

Help & Adive Urgently Needed - Moorcroft Debt Recovery

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I will try to keep this as brief as possible. My son has been having serious financial problems since his business failed but he has managed to sell his house at a give-away price and paid off most of his debts - leaving him with absolutely nothing. He has one credit card left and owes Sainsbury around £8k. He has no way of paying this as he is unemployed and to be fair Sainsbury have allowed him to pay £5 a month until his circumstances change. He had a letter from them dated 17th September 2010 saying they will review his position again in 6 months. Now out of the blue he has received a letter from Moorcroft Debt Recovery – Pre Court Division. The letter states:- We have been instructed by Sainsbury Bank to collect your overdue debt of £8000. It is a legal requirement to send a notice of intended litigation before legal proceedings in the County Court are issued. We believe that this letter fulfils this requirement even if it is not actually read by you.

 

To prevent our recommending to our client that solicitors commence legal proceedings, it is essential that you settle this debt without delay. Payment should be submitted in full within 7 days or contact made with this office immediately by telephone or letter, with your payment offer. Both our client and we do not wish to take this action but if agreement cannot be reached by 09/11/10, a claim may be issued by our client’s solicitors without further notice.

 

We would draw to your attention that if Judgement and an order for repayment in full is obtained and remains unpaid, a range of court enforcement options are available and may be considered. We would emphasise that should Judgement be entered against you this may affect any future credit application you make elsewhere. We would also draw to your attention that all legal costs incurred are usually payable by the debtor.

 

Please contact us today as we will be happy to discuss a repayment programme that you can afford and maintain. All payments must be payable to Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd and forwarded with this letter to the above address.

 

My son is really struggling to cope and to be honest I was not aware of just how bad things were until a few months ago. He immediately rang Moorcroft (after a bit of research on this site I have told him not to ring them at all as I realise everything has to be put in writing) as he was so worried but they didn’t seem interested in agreeing a payment plan they seem to be pushing him for full settlement. This is totally impossible, we are not a rich family but I can raise about 50% of it – is it worth writing to Moorcroft stating that we will pay this as full settlement. At present if he could agree a payment plan he would only be able to offer a minimal amount of £20 per month.

He knows he has to pay the debt but we really need to sit back and take it all in. Would it be advisable to write and request a CCA a I read somewhere that this could give a bit of breathing space?

 

One last point, would it be worth writing to Sainsbury again bearing in mind that they only wrote to him in September giving him 6 months at a payment plan of £5 per month. He cannot understand why, a few weeks later, they have passed it on to Moorcroft.

 

Sorry this is so long but I would appreciate any help as to what he should put in his letter. Thank you in advance.

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Hi and welcome

 

You (or son) will have to be really strong in dealing with Moorcroft - write to them, never phone and state clearly that this is all you are able to pay, you had an arrangement to pay Sainsburys and your circumstances have not changed. If they request details of income or expenditure do not provide this , they have no right to ask. Only pay by standing order never give them bank or card details or set up a direct debit.

 

If this went to court - the court would allow your son to pay exactly what he has asked to pay now or less depending on his circumstance. Moorcrap know this and are just taking the mick.

 

If you can give more details about this - there are ways you can look at the validity of this account and the amount claimed.


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Guest Cartaphilus

Ah, the 'famed' Pre-Court Division ... It's the stuff of legend. Literally. ;)

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Guest Cartaphilus

I count 8 guests ...

Edited by Cartaphilus

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Hi Lyndell :)

 

The Moorcrap letter is full of "ifs" "mays" etc. It's mainly bluster.

 

However, if, as you say, your son is unemployed and has nothing left, the following letter (adjusted appropriately) may work for him:

 

By Royal Mail Recorded Delivery

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Account Ref: xxxxxxxxxx

 

With regards to my current “repayment arrangement” with you, I am in a position to be able to offer you no more than £X per calendar month.

I own no property, have no savings or appreciable assets and rely on Job Seekers’ Allowance as my sole source of income.

I quote the Department of Work & Pensions, who state:

 

“You will be paid the sum of £65 per week, which is the legal minimum on which the Government believes you need to live on.”

I have obtained a Court orientated Income and Expenditure Form, to which, I understand, only a Court and/or Judge can legally have access, and filled in the details required therein.

 

From this information it is obvious that I currently have no disposable income.

 

It has been suggested that, following discovery of this situation, a county court Judge would, in all probability, order that I can afford no more that £1 per month to each and all creditors, which of course includes you.

Therefore, I would formally request that you supply me with the relevant information/documents necessary for me to set up a standing order to continue paying instalments towards the amount owing on the above account.

 

Please note that I have no intention of avoiding any legally claimed repayments on the above account, but I firmly believe that my offer of repayment is just and fair, considering my current circumstances. Should these circumstances change, I will, of course, notify you as soon as possible to arrange repayment at a higher monthly amount.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Print name, don't sign

 

Of course, a "prove it" letter could be his first option, as could a CCA Request.

 

Your son can only offer what he can afford. On JSA or similar, that's going to be £1 a month... As it's your son's (alleged) liability, I'd recommend that you don't step in at the moment. He (and you) would be better off coming to an arrangement for a better repayment plan, should the debt be proven.

 

Hope that helps.

 

H. x

Edited by Halibutt

Please note, I am not professionally qualified in legal matters. Should you have any doubts, you should contact a legal expert.

However, I can and will help with matters regarding payroll as I am fully qualified.

 

If I've helped in any way, you're welcome to click on my "star" and thanks, but I gain the most satisfaction simply by helping/reassuring :O)

 

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Guest Cartaphilus

I like that letter but as for their 'pre-court' thing ... anyone know where that actually is? Next to the coffee cup on the next door desk perhaps? *shrugs* Does it also have it's own post-code? ;)

 

Oops, mean PO box not post-code.

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I like that letter but as for their 'pre-court' thing ... anyone know where that actually is? Next to the coffee cup on the next door desk perhaps? *shrugs* Does it also have it's own post-code? ;)

 

Oops, mean PO box not post-code.

 

It's next to the plastic play mat with the non-toxic water based paints. They're promoted to using crayons in the Pre-School Division.


Please note, I am not professionally qualified in legal matters. Should you have any doubts, you should contact a legal expert.

However, I can and will help with matters regarding payroll as I am fully qualified.

 

If I've helped in any way, you're welcome to click on my "star" and thanks, but I gain the most satisfaction simply by helping/reassuring :O)

 

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Guest Cartaphilus

You mean where they keep the Lego and Fuzzy Felt (they still make that??).

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I would certainly send CCA request to Moorcroft the link is below - send with £1 postal order, don't sign and send recorded. See what they come back with, they have 12 plus 2 working days to reply.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?414-CCA-request-letter.


At your Service

 

Please Double click the Star and leave a message if I have helped you

 

Please support CAG and they will support you.

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Guest Cartaphilus
It's next to the plastic play mat with the non-toxic water based paints. They

 

Now, I am afraid I must correct you ... you really meant toxic paints didn't you? How else do they write those letters? ;)

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Hi Lyndell and welcome, as you can see from what is posted above, we tend to treat Moorcr+p with the scorn they bring upon themselves. However, we do realise that for you it is less than amusing.:sad: No one is making light of your situation, rather, trying to assure you that they really are just a bunch of lossers.

 

IMHO take the advice given above, what is the worst that can happen, a CCJ with an order to pay and as long as those payments are arrived at by the Judge receiving your son's income information, that should not be too high. Your son has sold his house, so they cannot put on a Charging Order, they cannot send in the bailiff whilst the payments are being adhered too. The Judgement will appear on your sons' Credit Files for 6 years (although it would not become SB until fully paid).

 

Personally I would go down the CCA route, as depending when the CC was taken out, that could reveal another direction to take.

 

As you have discovered, their (Sainsburys) word, and what others 'say' can be a tissue of lies. Also, as is being discovered by the media, many Customer Service department are being instructed to be dismisive.

 

In time I hope you and your son will be able to treat these people with the contempt and humour they deserve. Most, if not all of us on here have been in a similar and sometimes worse situation, and we have all come through smiling, sometimes financially better off, sometimes not, but all have become more knowledgeable about our rights.


Every journey begins with a single step :):)

 

Please note: I have no qualifications in this area - my advice is learned from the wonderful members of this Forum. Thanks to you all for your help.

 

If you have found my post helpful please leave a short message by clicking the star to the left of my profile - Thank You

 

The only person entitled to your Personal Finance details is a Judge not a DCA

 

Move all banking activity to another banking group if you have a dispute - your funds can be used to offset debts within the same group.

Be careful with Banking details (card/account numbers) as these can be used to take unauthorised payments.

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or write to sainsburys and ask why if this was in an arrangement they decided to submit it to morecrap to collect without first informing you, you never know they may pull it back


PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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Lyndell. welcome and chill out please, as you can see by the replies from the other ( experienced ) caggers some of our comments are somewhat relaxed however they all mean the same and that is..Dont Worry.

 

I would have liked to have my tenpenneth worth of comments but I was busy with my minced dinner including crispy yorkshire puds ( are we really serious ) you bet we are.

 

Take note of Harrased Seniors advice as do the others, but please do not worry ( I was advised the same 2 year ago ) and listen to me now.

 

Good luck and keep us all informed and shout loud when you need a helping hand, or 2.

 

Hey Cart, fuzzy felt, your showing your age, oh I remember it too, Ha Ha

 

 

 

I will try to keep this as brief as possible. My son has been having serious financial problems since his business failed but he has managed to sell his house at a give-away price and paid off most of his debts - leaving him with absolutely nothing. He has one credit card left and owes Sainsbury around £8k. He has no way of paying this as he is unemployed and to be fair Sainsbury have allowed him to pay £5 a month until his circumstances change. He had a letter from them dated 17th September 2010 saying they will review his position again in 6 months. Now out of the blue he has received a letter from Moorcroft Debt Recovery – Pre Court Division. The letter states:- We have been instructed by Sainsbury Bank to collect your overdue debt of £8000. It is a legal requirement to send a notice of intended litigation before legal proceedings in the County Court are issued. We believe that this letter fulfils this requirement even if it is not actually read by you.

 

To prevent our recommending to our client that solicitors commence legal proceedings, it is essential that you settle this debt without delay. Payment should be submitted in full within 7 days or contact made with this office immediately by telephone or letter, with your payment offer. Both our client and we do not wish to take this action but if agreement cannot be reached by 09/11/10, a claim may be issued by our client’s solicitors without further notice.

 

We would draw to your attention that if Judgement and an order for repayment in full is obtained and remains unpaid, a range of court enforcement options are available and may be considered. We would emphasise that should Judgement be entered against you this may affect any future credit application you make elsewhere. We would also draw to your attention that all legal costs incurred are usually payable by the debtor.

 

Please contact us today as we will be happy to discuss a repayment programme that you can afford and maintain. All payments must be payable to Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd and forwarded with this letter to the above address.

 

My son is really struggling to cope and to be honest I was not aware of just how bad things were until a few months ago. He immediately rang Moorcroft (after a bit of research on this site I have told him not to ring them at all as I realise everything has to be put in writing) as he was so worried but they didn’t seem interested in agreeing a payment plan they seem to be pushing him for full settlement. This is totally impossible, we are not a rich family but I can raise about 50% of it – is it worth writing to Moorcroft stating that we will pay this as full settlement. At present if he could agree a payment plan he would only be able to offer a minimal amount of £20 per month.

He knows he has to pay the debt but we really need to sit back and take it all in. Would it be advisable to write and request a CCA a I read somewhere that this could give a bit of breathing space?

 

One last point, would it be worth writing to Sainsbury again bearing in mind that they only wrote to him in September giving him 6 months at a payment plan of £5 per month. He cannot understand why, a few weeks later, they have passed it on to Moorcroft.

 

Sorry this is so long but I would appreciate any help as to what he should put in his letter. Thank you in advance.

Edited by Mr Worried
blumen caps

Regards..Mr Worried :)

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Thanks for the above - at present he is still paying Sainsbury the £5 on direct debit and it went out during October. Should he now cancel this seeing as it is now in the hands of Moorcroft.

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Hi and welcome

 

You (or son) will have to be really strong in dealing with Moorcroft - write to them, never phone and state clearly that this is all you are able to pay, you had an arrangement to pay Sainsburys and your circumstances have not changed. If they request details of income or expenditure do not provide this , they have no right to ask. Only pay by standing order never give them bank or card details or set up a direct debit.

 

If this went to court - the court would allow your son to pay exactly what he has asked to pay now or less depending on his circumstance. Moorcrap know this and are just taking the mick.

 

If you can give more details about this - there are ways you can look at the validity of this account and the amount claimed.

 

Thanks for the above - at present he is still paying Sainsbury the £5 on direct debit and it went out during October. Should he now cancel this

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Hi Lyndell

 

Personally I would still pay the fiver, but act upon post 12,

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the above - at present he is still paying Sainsbury the £5 on direct debit and it went out during October. Should he now cancel this

Regards..Mr Worried :)

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Request an alternative payment method to the direct debit if you can but maintain payment for now - certainly send off the CCA request asap.


At your Service

 

Please Double click the Star and leave a message if I have helped you

 

Please support CAG and they will support you.

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Wow - thank you all so much for your replies - I will work out how to award stars but need to go to Help - will sort it shortly. You have certainly confirmed my worst fears about Moorcroft but I think I will do as suggested and go down the CCA route first to give my son a bit of breathing space. Am I right in presuming that the letter goes to Moorcroft and not Sainsbury? I will read up on CCA and as soon as I receive it then I will take the next step. In the meanwhile should I write to Sainsbury to ask why they passed the debt on especially after they wrote in September giving my son another 6 months or should I just deal with Moorcroft. I have tried to take some of the pressure off my son by dealing with this but must admit it is very stressful. Just reading your answers has helped - at least I can tell him we are not alone and at least some of the replies brought a smile to my face. When I receive the CCA I will be back on to ask for advice on what to do next i.e. send the letter offering them a monthly payment by standing order or try to get a figure for a full settlement. However there is no way we can raise the full amount. Thank you all so much.

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I am wondering if that letter from Sainsbury’s agreeing to what is essentially an amendment to the original agreement counts as a contract?

 

Sadly I doubt it, but it’s an excellent part of your armoury should Moorcroft be stupid enough to instigate legal action.

 

This is why i’s best to keep up the payments – you make sure you keep your end of the bargain.

 

A strongly worded letter to Sainsbury’s would be my first shot. Taste the difference? No thanks...


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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The letter from Sainsburys kept mentioning the words informal arrangement but it also says it will be reviewed next March 2011. I am going down the CCA route now but will also write to Sainsburys as I think it is totally out of order what they have done. I will also try and get the payments done through standing order. Thanks for your input and help.

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I would certainly send CCA request to Moorcroft the link is below - send with £1 postal order, don't sign and send recorded. See what they come back with, they have 12 plus 2 working days to reply.

 

 

Thanks - have now done the letter but just wondered do I have to make the Postal Order payable to Moorcroft or can I leave it blank?

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I believe that it is best to leave it blank - but someone may corect me on this.


At your Service

 

Please Double click the Star and leave a message if I have helped you

 

Please support CAG and they will support you.

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Thank you all for your help last time. Unfortunately I still haven’t got the hang of this Forum and can’t seem to locate ‘Help’. I am sure I failed to thank people last time so if anyone can direct me to the Help section I would be very grateful or better still do I just click on the stars to thank people?

 

I believe I am right in carrying on this thread so am giving an update of the latest situation and also once again asking for advice.

 

My son sent the letter to ask for a copy of the CCA and has just received the following reply from Moorcroft.

 

We refer to your recently received letter requesting data as per Section 77 – 79 Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

We duly confirm that we have requested the relevant documentation from our client and once received we will duly forward the same to you. Meanwhile, we duly confirm that all collection activity on the account has been put on hold and we will not seek to enforce payment of this debt until such time as the documentation has been supplied or we have advised you to the contrary.

 

In the meantime, however, we believe that it may be of assistance to all parties if we also take this opportunity to ensure that any potential areas of dispute are addressed prior to any possible court action or further investigation. To this end can you provide an indication of the information you will be relying upon, when giving evidence to the court or information to the relevant statutory authorities in relation to the alleged subject matter of this account.

 

Please could you provide this information by return as this will ensure that all possible areas of dispute are identified as quickly as possibly thereby minimizing potential costs and delays.

 

Should you have any questions or require any additional information please do not hesitate to contact us direct on the telephone number as shown above

 

 

Firstly just to confirm that my son will never again ring Moorcroft as we have taken the advice given on the forum and will ensure everything will be in writing.

 

Can you please advise him how to respond to the above letter. His circumstances have not changed at all and as a point of interest he is still paying Sainsbury £5 per month by standing order. The last payment went out on 12th November 2010. Should he just wait until he receives the CCA or should he write and acknowledge this letter.

Many thanks

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In the meantime, however, we believe that it may be of assistance to all parties if we also take this opportunity to ensure that any potential areas of dispute are addressed prior to any possible court action or further investigation. To this end can you provide an indication of the information you will be relying upon, when giving evidence to the court or information to the relevant statutory authorities in relation to the alleged subject matter of this account.

 

Hi Lyndell

 

The above is priceless, and their request to you is outrageous, they will stoop to all kinds these days.

 

Sit tight dont write and await the request within the given timescale, then fire of acct in dispute.

 

I am still raging with the above paragraph...honestly.

 

REMEMBER all comms in writing, and keep us here informed of all actions...bloody cheek of them!

 

Mr W


Regards..Mr Worried :)

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Thanks Mr. W. This forum is brilliant, the perfect cure for sleepless nights! My son is under strict instructions not to speak to them and we will wait now until the CCA arrives. I believe I have to give them 14 days to send the CCA so will be back on the forum then. Thanks once more.

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