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Moorcroft vs mum


noobcakes
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Good evening.

 

My mum has had the misfortune of dealing with the rather scary Moorcroft debt bullies and a few people on here have shown up when I do a Google search so thought I'd post here as her case is a bit complicated.

 

Several years ago mum got a Lloyds loan and was paying it all off until her husband, my father, died. He was disabled and could not work and her only income was from being his carer. Mum took out a loan and was just 15 months from fully paying it off when he died suddenly.

 

After he died I went with mum to Lloyds to explain that her financial situation had changed and she could no longer afford to pay the £250-ish a month and could only afford £50 initially (all I had to spare) a month and that later increased to £100/mo when she found herself a job. She now has 3 part time jobs and we split the bills and I pay for most of it but I can't cover everything yet as when my father died I went from paying essentially 'board' at home to paying all of the council tax, rent on the house and all that kind of stuff which I hadn't planned for.

 

I found out recently that when she was pyaing £50 or £100/mo Lloyds were charing her between £98-£102 interest on the loan meaning she was making any dent in the loan and this had been going on for 2 years. I was horrified.

 

Anyway, in the spring mum changed jobs and therefore payment dates and Lloyds were unable to successfully change her payment dates and she had her debt referred to Moorcroft who demanded £260/mo to pay it off and after several phone calls she paid them £260 via her debit card which meant she couldn't afford petrol or to eat that month, but I obviously took the hit and paid this.

 

I wrote them a letter with her and offered them £100/mo and they accepted this about 3 months ago. But after that mum was made redundant from one of the jobs she couldn't honour that agreement. I referred her to PayPlan who I used in the past and they have made them an offer lower than that (She was paying back £300 a month on all of her debts which she accrued in her name while looking after my father before he died) which works out at around £160/mo for all of her debts combined which she can afford.

 

Moorcroft sent one of their standard attack-dog letters and keep phoning (along with a number of her other creditors) and she now doesn't answer the phone to anyone at all unless it's from my mobile number. Moorcroft have not replied to PayPlan accepting mum's revised offer and say they have no choice but to instruct Lloyds to take legal action against her.

 

If I could afford to pay off more of mum's debts I would but I can hardly afford the petrol to get to work and some months have to walk cross country to get to my office so that I can afford to pay for our food if I've got stuck in traffic jams using up more petrol than I wanted to on the journey. It's a bit messed up, and barring winning the lottery (which I can't afford to pay!) I can see no way out of this debt.

 

Mum owes Lloyds around £3000 and I just want to cry as she's not a well woman herself and feel really helpless. We both understand that the debt needs to be paid off but I am scared that she's going to have a relationship for 6-8 years with Moorcroft.

 

PayPlan should be able to help, but mum is too scared to answer the telephone anymore as it's going to be someone demanding money.

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Hi there

First thing to do is YOU can decide how much to pay --NOT MOORCROFT. Take control is the first step in dealing with the thugs and bullies who infest this dreadful industry.

 

Even if the worst comes to the worst and it goes to court then YOU will get a MUCH better deal from the Court rather than [email protected] who are only another bottom feeding DCA.

 

A Court would probably REDUCE your payment to 1 GBP a month if your mum doesn't have any money -- in any case it would appear that you have been paying EXCESSIVE charges and maybe the debt is unenforceable.

 

DCA's prey on fear most people have of COURTS. In fact they are most unlikely to take any action since they KNOW a Court would REDUCE payments in this case.

 

I would demand a copy of the original CCA -- this MUST be delivered within 12 + 2days to see if its valid.

 

People can advise you further after that.

 

Write the standard letter to MOORCOFT saying you need to have the CCA -- they can't take any action while this process is going on.

 

These DCA's exist only by scaring people and threatening them with powers the don't have.

 

Also insist WRITING ONLY -- NO PHONE CALLS and send them the phone harassement letter.

 

Even if you still end up having to pay something YOU are in control not the DCA scumbags.

 

Cheers

jimbo

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Hi noobcakes

 

Was the loan in your mums name only - or your dads also?

 

Was/or is there any insurances on the loan such as PPI etc.

 

Do you have a copy of the agreement?

 

Give me few mins and there are a couple of letters for you - i will dig them out.

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As Jimbo has stated you need to send a CCA request.

 

Amend the following letter to adding your mums details and send it with a £1 postal order - by recorded delivery to Moorcrofts.

 

Your Address

 

Date

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77(6) will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

PRINT NAME (Do Not Sign)

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Here is another letter for your mum to send Moorcfroft - stick it in the same envelope as the CCA request above and dont forget - Recorded Delivery.

 

This is to stop the phone calls from Moorcroft - If you Mum is a BT customer it may also be worth contacting them and asking about Call Barring.

 

Here is the letter.

 

Your Street

Town

City

Postcode

 

DATE HERE

Company Name

Road

Town

City / County

Postcode

 

Re: Harassment by telephone

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER:

 

Dear Sirs

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

Yours faithfully,

[PRINT NAME HERE] Do Not Sign

.

.

 

.

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Agree with the above advice, check out the enforcability of this debt. Moorcroft have 12 plus 2 working days to come back with an agreement. Let us know what they say. If no agreement you can send them the 'account in dispute' letter and they should not make contact until they prove it is enforcable. If there is an agreement, you can check out the charges, PPI etc.

 

I also think that you should make some complaints about Moorcroft to the OFT and Trading Standards via Consumer Direct. You can ring Consumer Direct and say that you want to complain and write to OFT (by email is probably best). Moorcroft are breaking OFT guidelines by their harassment and refusal to accept a reasonable offer to pay. The fact that your mum cannot use her own phone is proof enough.

 

It is worth your mum checking out 'call barring' and also see if she can get her number changed to a new ex directory one and just give this to family and friends. She needs to tell the phone provider that she is receiving distressing nuisance calls, which is true.

At your Service

 

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Thanks for all of your replies so far. You're angels and even before I posted reading what other people have done with Moorcroft has changed my perception of them from a behemoth with crushing legal blows into a powerless mouse with cartoon boxing gloves and that is very reassuring.

 

If the letters were to myself then I wouldn't worry so much, but as they're addressed to mum they obviously take the wind out of her. I've explained that they're just bullies and that has reassured her somewhat. I even phoned her today at lunch and she answered the phone, something she hasn't done for a few weeks for fear of it being Moorcroft. She hadn't acknowledged to me that she wasn't answering the phone, but each time I call it goes to the answering machine and she makes an excuse that she was outside and didn't get to the phone in time to answer it.

 

I called Sky today and have taken the first step in their process for having the phone number changed, which is to report them as 'nuisance' calls and wait for a couple of weeks until they stop. Mum said that Moorcroft didn't call her today so hopefully they're speaking with PayPlan at the moment, or have just had the day off! Either way I've told her that if she wants the number changed then it shouldn't be too much of a problem. I've also asked mum to ring PayPlan over the next few days to ask if all of her creditors have accepted the offers they have made as it's gone a bit quiet after her initial payment to PayPlan was made late last month.

 

Re: The debts from before my father died. Yes, the debts are in mum's name. As my father wasn't ever able to work due to severe epilepsy and thrombosis in both of his legs he couldn't really do much so would never be in a position to get a loan.

 

Re: Payment Protection Insurance. Mum did have this on her Lloyds loan and when we went to the bank after he died the woman there said that she couldn't claim on the PPI policy so mum cancelled it. I have found a letter on another website that she can sign to try and reclaim back the PPI payments she made as she was told that she couldn't have the loan without the policy attached and felt compelled to accept it when the loan agreement was made. Do you think that would work? There is mention of a case waiting to be heard.

 

Jimbo45: You've said that as the interest charges were excessive that the debt may be unenforceable (I've been trying to work out how I would get a copy of all of the payments made dated and with the dated interest applied to see if the bulk (if not all of it) has already been repaid if the interest from the date of the £50/£100 reduced payments had been written off or reduced. Can I just write to Lloyds (in her name, of course) asking for a statement of all of the debt including payments received, interest added and charges displayed on it so that I can grab the calculator and ask them to write off the debt if it looks like she's satisfied the original loan amount or exceeded in paying it if the £100/mo interest was not being charged? If the debt (as it currently stands) is around £3k to Lloyds and it's all essentially been paid then would a final offer of something like £1.5k (50% of the debt) seem reasonable?

 

I assume that the debt is actually still Lloyds as mum never signed a loan agreement with Moorcroft so any proper dealings should only be made through Lloyds? If so then I'm not sure how to deal with it. Mum has given PayPlan the details of Moorcroft for the Lloyds loan.

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Just a note on the CCA request letter above, which I originally drafted before the court rulings that allowed for 'reconstituted' agreements.

 

It is probably useful to insert a new paragraph into the letter:

 

I am aware that following a recent Court ruling, you can supply a reconstituted agreement in order to fulfil this request. I am also aware that the original document will be required in the event of Court proceedings.
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Thanks SP can we get that in the template please having been sent 25 pages of reconstituted tree bark. Thanks again

At your Service

 

Please Double click the Star and leave a message if I have helped you

 

Please support CAG and they will support you.

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Yes you should be able to claim for the missold PPI - did they say why she could not claim against it. I have never actually met anyone who has actually been able to claim against their PPI.

 

I think it may be worth getting hold of some information so we can find out what the score is with this agreement - Best thing to do is send for a Subjetc Access Request under the Data Protection Act. This should include all the statements etc. you need - but will not harm to ask for them in the SAR.

 

It will cost you £10 - send a £10 postal order with the request to Lloyds and by recorded delivery - write on the back of P.O. "For SAR Use Only" and photo copy if you can.

 

Here is a link to the SAR Letter - amend it for your mums use - Print Her Name (DO NOT SIGN IT)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?552-Data-Protection

 

Here is the address to send it to.

 

DSAR Unit,

Lloydslink3.gif TSB BANK PLC,

Customer Service Recovery,

Charlton Place,

Andover,

SP10 1RE

 

You are right that your debt should still be owned by Unless it has been sold on - but regardless you still need to send the SAR to Lloyds.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks for the advice that you've given.

 

After careful consideration I sent Lloyds TSB the following, which is a slightly modified "Please stop calling us, call Payplan instead" letter. Moorcroft have stopped phoning, but Lloyds TSB continues to call. Mum refuses to answer the phone anymore and as I've been off this week on annual leave I've been screening her calls. I think I may go down the change the phone number route.

 

I left Lloyds TSB rather bemused this morning when I refused to direct mum to call and stated that they should only be dealing with Payplan (and read off their phone number three times to them, and read mum's Payplan ID out three times too - but I know that the tubby on the phone wasn't taking any of it down) or by mum by letter, which would be forwarded to Payplan. I also stated that mum would not be available by telephone and their call was a breach of various items stated in the letter they would have received this morning.

 

Mum's just made the second payment to Payplan (one payment a month) but Payplan haven't yet sent out formal offers/financial statement to all of her creditors as Barclays have yet to provide them with the details they have asked for. I have chased Payplan via email on their website to see if they can send out offers and a financial statement in case Barclays don't reply for weeks.

 

""

Re: Harassment by telephone

 

ACCOUNT NUMBERS: Lloyds Credit Card XXX, Lloyds Airmiles Duo XXXX/XXXX, Lloyds Loan devolved to Moorcroft XXXX - XXXX, Select account XXXX.

 

Dear Sirs

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still frequently receiving calls. Due to my financial situation I am making payments via PayPlan, should you have any queries I have repeatedly told you to contact them on 0845 XXXX quoting my reference XXXXXX.

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company for me to be made in writing only. Distribute this letter throughout all of your Lloyds TSB related companies for which accounts are attributed to me.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

Yours faithfully,

""

 

I haven't asked for a signed copy of the CCA document as I've been rather scared by peeps being taken to court and people having judgements taken against them with reconstituted agreements. Mum doesn't dispute that she took out the loan, and wants to pay it off, so the lack of a signature is unimportant to her. I appreciate that people on this forum may disagree, but it's not her style, to be honest.

 

I'll keep you updated, if you want, but the sticking point at the moment is the lack of any reply to Payplan from Barclays which is holding Payplan up from issuing a proper financial statement.

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if your mum is frightened of talking to these idiots over the phone if they do ring tell her than all she has to do is not confirm their stupid security questions that they ask...such as name? address? etc..without this info they have to terminate the call and are unable to harrass her on the phone....she should never be afraid of answering her own phone because of these parasites...as to the cca i think you ought to ask for them..this gives you a chance to see if any paperwork actually exists for this debt...moorcrap are notorious for not having the paperwork, and are normally fairly easy to dispatch

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Yes you should be able to claim for the missold PPI - did they say why she could not claim against it. I have never actually met anyone who has actually been able to claim against their PPI.

 

I think it may be worth getting hold of some information so we can find out what the score is with this agreement - Best thing to do is send for a Subjetc Access Request under the Data Protection Act. This should include all the statements etc. you need - but will not harm to ask for them in the SAR.

 

It will cost you £10 - send a £10 postal order with the request to Lloyds and by recorded delivery - write on the back of P.O. "For SAR Use Only" and photo copy if you can.

 

Here is a link to the SAR Letter - amend it for your mums use - Print Her Name (DO NOT SIGN IT)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?552-Data-Protection

 

Here is the address to send it to.

 

DSAR Unit,

Lloydslink3.gif TSB BANK PLC,

Customer Service Recovery,

Charlton Place,

Andover,

SP10 1RE

 

You are right that your debt should still be owned by Unless it has been sold on - but regardless you still need to send the SAR to Lloyds.

 

Sorry, been working a loot tonight so only just got here. Re the SAR template letter here, I'd also add, as on your CCA request that the money is purely intended to pay for the SAR and must not be used to offset any balance of monies they believe to be owed.

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