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Ok so this might get a bit complex. We have been going through a restructuring process now for over a year. There are two teams in two departments on two separate sites and these are to be merged.

On my site I’m the manager (grade 7), with a grade 6 and a grade 4. On the other site there is a manager (grade 6) and three grade 5’s.

Going forward there will be a grade 7, a grade 6, two grade 5’s and a grade 4.

At the first consultation meeting (late august) I was told to apply for the grade 7 post. My opposite number was told to apply for the grade 7 and/or the grade 6 post.

The interviews took place in late October, and I was told a couple of days later I was unsuccessful, because the other guy interviewed better (no doubt quite true, however I was told I was favourite until this point!)

The manager was to be in post before the other graded roles.

 

In the intervening period between the first consultation and the interview the grade 6 who works for me complained about the job description in the post (they were all badly written) and so did some other people, and the company rewrote the job description specifically for him and put him directly in post. However they failed to tell my opposite number that they had done this. His plan was not to apply for the grade 7 post but was to apply for the grade 6 post. He was approached after the grade 7 posts deadline had gone to see why he hadn’t applied. He was then informed that the grade 6 post was unavailable and was told to apply for the grade 7 post, he applied and got the job.

 

What can I do, should I do? I'm not in a union. I am potentially in the process of being redeployed (or not), my second consultation is Friday.

Thanks

Edited by Deano132
Added paragraphs back in, thanks
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Hi Deano and welcome to CAG.

 

Rebel, I apologise for possibly being controversial and Deano may wish to comment on this, but you keep telling new caggers that 'the guys will advise shortly'. Everyone probably has a different definition of 'shortly', but some people's could be an hour or less.

 

Given my past history, which I won't bore people with, pressure is not great for me, although I'm sure most of the guys are more robust.

 

I suppose my point is that if the right people aren't around, then advice may not be forthcoming until the evening or the next day, given that most of the employment gurus have day jobs. This leads to expectations of new caggers of a timescale that may not happen and pressure on people who are doing their best to help.

 

Sorry for whingeing, I'm probably sensitive today, but I think my points are worth considering.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hello again Deano, I hope we can help you. I'm not in a position to comment on your problems, sorry. I think it would help the guys if you could put some paragraphs in your post; you may have copied and pasted it and I know that can take out paragraphs. You could have a read of the ACAS and directgov websites that have quite a lot on redundancy, consultations etc. I hesitate to say speak to ACAS because they're not getting very good press here atm.

 

Please bear with us and the guys will be along when they can.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Gosh, what a mess. Assuming that there is little difference in pay between the grade 6 and 7 posts, on the face of it the correct thing to do would have been to pool all the grade 6 and 7's that existed and invite them all to apply for the new grade 6 and 7's, with no requirement on you to apply for the 6 unless you wanted to. Then appoint the grade 7, and then the grade 6 (so if you didn't apply the slot in for the remaining grade 6 would have been ok). But in terms of unfairness, in law, I think that the grade 6's have a better claim than you possibly do - although if you were prepared to accept a grade 6 post then you may have a claim based on the mess it is in. I suppose the essential question is - would you have been prepared to accept a grade 6 post? If not, mess that it is, I don't think there is anything you can do as there appears to have been a fair and objective (albeit messy) process to select for the senior post, and you seem to accept that was the case.

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I am a barrister specialising in employment law, and only represent employees. My advice on employment issues is advice - not legal opinion - and is based only on the facts you provide. If you want an accurate assessment of your case and prospects, you should get legal opinion from a lawyer - not a public forum. Anything I tell you is for guidance only, and is based on my experience of the law in the context of what details you provide.

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I'll have a bash but don't take this as gospel

 

 

At the first consultation meeting (late august) I was told to apply for the grade 7 post. My opposite number was told to apply for the grade 7 and/or the grade 6 post.

The interviews took place in late October, and I was told a couple of days later I was unsuccessful, because the other guy interviewed better (no doubt quite true, however I was told I was favourite until this point!)

 

As far as everything you were told about being favourite it's all somewhat irrelevant. If the process for selection is an interview and he out-performed you he wins, that's it, promises are very often broken i'm afraid.

 

A complaint will depend on your employers policy on redundancy and re-deployment. I'm assuming (possibly incorrectly) you work for a school and these are council gradings taken from a pay and grading review as it all looks very familiar.

 

If not everything else i say may be wrong.

 

The company should have a redundancy and/or redeployment/restructuring policy, if that policy covers the process of slotting employees into jobs when there is an amalgamation of roles it may state that this is done via matching peoples current grades (this would support your claim) or may state that employees one grade below could also apply. If the policy allows your lower graded workmate to apply or is silent on the matter your probably stuffed again.

 

It does sound like they have put people exactly where they wanted them but it's proving it via them not following their own procedure your going to need to do.

 

The fairness of the ringfencing pool appears ok to me but i'm no lawyer.

 

You really need to get a copy of their policies to see what they say if they have not been provided already

 

 

The manager was to be in post before the other graded roles.

 

 

 

In the intervening period between the first consultation and the interview the grade 6 who works for me complained about the job description in the post (they were all badly written) and so did some other people, and the company rewrote the job description specifically for him and put him directly in post.

 

Would they be able to argue that during their consultation the other employee raised concerns about the content of the required duties missing from the job description that they agreed with. Do the changes reflect the work they wish for the site manager to undertake, remember it's their job to define, did you raise any issues over the job description yourself during consultation which they ignored?

 

unless the changes were only communicated to yourself after consultation finished leaving you no time to complain or prepare and the other persons were also after the consultation ended you may have missed the deadline.

 

 

However they failed to tell my opposite number that they had done this.

 

That would be the concern of your oppo nowt to do with you i'm afraid unless you wished to collectively complain.

His plan was not to apply for the grade 7 post but was to apply for the grade 6 post. He was approached after the grade 7 posts deadline had gone to see why he hadn’t applied. He was then informed that the grade 6 post was unavailable and was told to apply for the grade 7 post, he applied and got the job.

 

All i see here is can he be a witness to the fact he was applying for the grade 6 and was told it's not available (why?) Will he commit to support a complaint from yourself he would have gone into the 6 apart from being told he couldn't. Therefore the employer may have misrepresented the jobs position thus stopping you from transferring to it if there were no other competitors for it.

 

 

What can I do, should I do? I'm not in a union. I am potentially in the process of being redeployed (or not), my second consultation is Friday.

 

It does sound to me that you have been demoted in a fashion but you'll have to find a breach in their policy to fight it internally within your company.

 

Their position will be you were unsuccessful at interview for a better candidate on the day.

 

 

Without more info on what your being redeployed into it's hard to say anything else.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks

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Thanks for your comments.

 

I have no doubt I have no case around the pool selection, and we both (the two managers) raised issues around the job descriptions for the other posts but these were the lower grade posts.

 

As for the process being fair, I have no doubt I couldn't prove anything. The interview panel was made up of two people from his department, but one of those was the roles line manager the other a user of his service, the third member was from another department but relevant to the role.

 

But the question I'm trying to get at is, that I was the only person to apply for the post by the deadline of applications. If I didn't hand in an application or handed it in late for a normal job I would be told I was too late. Which just seems unfair to me. I completely agree that the band 6 manager was also getting done over by the way the process was handled.

 

As for redeployment, I have no idea, I may hear something on Friday I may not, they don't work in very fast time-scales, which can be both good and bad. It maybe that if I'm redeployed it maybe a great opportunity, however the relocation policy changed during the process (in August) now doesn't cover non academics like me, plus the job has to be advertised nationally.

 

Thanks

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Deadlines have no legal standing, and there is nothing to prevent an employer from having no deadline, or changing a deadline.

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I am a barrister specialising in employment law, and only represent employees. My advice on employment issues is advice - not legal opinion - and is based only on the facts you provide. If you want an accurate assessment of your case and prospects, you should get legal opinion from a lawyer - not a public forum. Anything I tell you is for guidance only, and is based on my experience of the law in the context of what details you provide.

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