How long for the PPC's

[afcwben]

Now the clamping ban is imminent and more public awareness about he enforcability of their invoices, surely these cowboys must be running out of time and money. Their business model must be in tatters:-)

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Personally, I expect PPCs to lobby for legislation to legitimise private enforcement and regulate it in a manner similar to DPE with a statutory independent appeals process as part of the quid pro quo.

 

I certainly cannot see private parking enforcement becoming outlawed in its entirety (although their current methods may be).

[afcwben]

I dont see it being outlawed either, but with the growing public awareness of the legitamacy of their practice unless they are given powers they do not currently have I cannot seeing them being able to continue.

[green_and_mean]

I think it will be a case of 'he who laughs last laughs longest'! When you are all getting tickets in a few years that are backed by law a lot of people will wish they had shut up and just kept on chucking the tickets in the bin rather than have 5 mins of fame on Watchdog or the local paper.

[my-spirit-soars-free]

There are a few people spoiling it for everyone.

 

A friend of mine parked her car in a private car park, right up against the wall as she needs to open her door wide to get in and out of the car. Cam back to find someone had parked so close to her car that no one could get in. Car park attendant waited with her, he was actually holding his umbrella over her. Almost an hour later, woman comes back to her car, swears at the car park attendant, says "you can't do nothing to stop me".

 

As the "[problem]" is getting better known it is getting harder to find blue badge spaces and parent and child spaces - our local multi storey even had one car parked across two blue badge bays, no blue badge, no ticket - and the parking attendant basically shrugged his shoulders, and said that the guy had got loads of "fines", and kept doing it, so what was the point. I am sure that many of us know the person who never pays for parking in a private car park, relying on the fact that the companies don't do court.

 

It is a shame that the actions of one or two people out of a thousand will force a change in the law, as I am not looking forward to the private parking companies being their own judge and jury - we have enough problems in this area with the council parking enforcement being done by a private company, and the appeals process for that is still with the council.

[mightymouse_69]

I agree with Bernie and G&M

 

Car parks do have to be managed and the PPCs will lobby for private control to be legitimised.

 

So, how long for the PPC's? Longer than we think probably.

[green_and_mean]

If the PPCs had any common sense (don't laugh) they should highlight how stupid the idea of removing all legal redress for parking on private property is, by some kind of action such as sticking cars in places that would annoy MPs such as their drive, or pinching their parking spot at the golf club! Its clearly ridiculous that you should be able to park in an NCP car park without any intention of paying and then if you do get caught have to be taken to caught for that days £5 fee. It would be like walking out of Tescos every day with a bottle of Vodka shoved up my jumper with the only deterent being sued for the £10 if caught.

[SURFBOY]

I agree with you there G+M but i think this backlash against the PPCs was bought about mainly due to the PPCs greed, I mean if you look at some of the terms and conditions that you can get an invoice for from most of these PPCs Its obvious that all they are after is easy money.

Some even try to charge you if you are not displaying a current tax disc! How can they justify that? Some try to charge you if you leave that car park to go to another shop, and that is on a retail park with lots of shops! How can they justify that? Their greed is also not doing the retailers and shop owners any good either.

[Al27]

It would be like walking out of Tescos every day with a bottle of Vodka shoved up my jumper with the only deterent being sued for the £10 if caught.

 

Well that is all that Tesco can actually do though!

 

Criminal law is the deterrent and you can be arrested for stealing a car parking space without paying already.

 

Tesco have a security guard at the entrance who will just hold you whilst the police turn up. NCP (or whoever) have the same option open to them today.

 

The OP's post is a bit misleading IMO. PPC's are doing fine because there are a lot of ignorant people out there. Their business model is perfect as it stands. Any specific parking laws on private land risk destabilising the existing system. The minimal outlay of sending out letters and waiting for the cheques is just fine for them.

[green_and_mean]

I agree with you there G+M but i think this backlash against the PPCs was bought about mainly due to the PPCs greed, I mean if you look at some of the terms and conditions that you can get an invoice for from most of these PPCs Its obvious that all they are after is easy money.

Some even try to charge you if you are not displaying a current tax disc! How can they justify that? Some try to charge you if you leave that car park to go to another shop, and that is on a retail park with lots of shops! How can they justify that? Their greed is also not doing the retailers and shop owners any good either.

 

In some situations going off site is a valid complaint because why should BQ build a car park for commuters to use or even worse so people can pop down the road to Homebase? Most conditions are fairly reasonable and fairly comparable to LA car parks, its £60 locally if you park out of bay Tesco 'charges' only £25. The problem comes with the lack of appeal and inconsistent signage. In reality 3 hours is reasonable in a Pizza hut yet of course there will always be someone that takes longer or returns for seconds this is where there should be more common sense involved and a proper appeal route.

[green_and_mean]

Well that is all that Tesco can actually do though!

 

Criminal law is the deterrent and you can be arrested for stealing a car parking space without paying already.

 

Tesco have a security guard at the entrance who will just hold you whilst the police turn up. NCP (or whoever) have the same option open to them today.

 

The OP's post is a bit misleading IMO. PPC's are doing fine because there are a lot of ignorant people out there. Their business model is perfect as it stands. Any specific parking laws on private land risk destabilising the existing system. The minimal outlay of sending out letters and waiting for the cheques is just fine for them.

 

Hello is that the Police, NCP Croydon here come quick someone has stolen a parking space!!

[mightymouse_69]

 

Criminal law is the deterrent and you can be arrested for stealing a car parking space without paying already..

 

Can you elaborate on that?

[SURFBOY]

Yea but nipping off site so you can go to cash machine ?

3 hours parking only, on a retail park with lots of shops, resaurants,cinema, bingo and bowling?

As i said i think these terms and conditions are made up to catch people out so that the PPCs can make money.

I have visited retail parks with these stupid restrictions on, you are limited to how long you can spend time shopping and spending money, how is that doing the retailer any good?

I have also visited retail outlets that have no parking restrictions on them at all and they work just fine.

My local morrisons , lidl and macdonnalds have no parking restrictions and they NEVER have any parking problems even during the summer when loads of tourists flock to my lovely seaside town!

[green_and_mean]

Can you elaborate on that?

 

Fraud act 2006 section 11 obtaining services by deception would cover it but even then it only covers 'paid for' parking not leaving your car in a university car park as example for the day while you go to work around the corner.

[mightymouse_69]

Fraud act 2006 section 11 obtaining services by deception would cover it but even then it only covers 'paid for' parking not leaving your car in a university car park as example for the day while you go to work around the corner.

 

Exactly.

 

Plus it is not 'stealing' as Al27 said.

[esmerobbo]

The problem is dividing the user from the abuser. Anyone who parks a car for eight hours a day and then goes off to work is really abusing the system and the lack of any real enforcement lets them get away with it. Then the PPC,s have shot themselves in the foot by penalising the user who has legitimate business on the car park. I don't know who sets the time limit but we have a retail park here that has a two hour limit and no return in four! My wife can spend two hours in a corner shop! This park has 33 outlets!

 

I think there does need to be something to protect the owners of the land but I haven't got a clue what it should be.

[green_and_mean]

Get rid of free store parking which isn't really free its just subsidised by those that use the bus and make everyone pay on exit any money they make out of it can be used to make the goods cheaper.

[Al27]

Exactly.

 

Plus it is not 'stealing' as Al27 said.

 

Yep, covering paid for parking only, and not theft:

 

A person cannot steal land, or things forming part of land and severed from it by him or by his directions, except in the following cases, that is to say-

(a) when he is a trustee or personal representative, or is authorised by power of attorney, or as liquidator of a company, or otherwise, to sell or dispose of land belonging to another, and he appropriates the land or anything forming part of it by dealing with it in breach of the confidence reposed in him; or

(b) when he is not in possession of the land and appropriates anything forming part of the land by severing it or causing it to be severed, or after it has been severed; or © when, being in possession of the land under a tenancy, he appropriates the whole or part of any fixture or structure let to be used with the land.

l

[PPC $ cambuster]

Quote

Green_and_mean:sad: "Get rid of free store parking which isn't really free its just subsidised by those that use the bus and make everyone pay on exit any money they make out of it can be used to make the goods cheaper"

 

What a bloody cheek !!

:-x who do you think subsidises the bus that you travel on ?? - drivers, who pay criminal levels of taxation just to exercise their rights of freedom to travel at a time that suits them and not be forced onto stinking buses.

 

I think public transport should be self financing ie paid for in full by those who use it and not by those who do not, that might make our fuel cheaper !!

Edited November 9, 2010 by PPC $ cambuster

[my-spirit-soars-free]

Get rid of free store parking which isn't really free its just subsidised by those that use the bus and make everyone pay on exit any money they make out of it can be used to make the goods cheaper.

 

Free car parks are cheaper to run that paid for car parks, so the money gained by charging would be less than the reduction of the cost of the average basket of groceries.

 

Around here, the supermarkets also run free buses from the outlying villages, I assume you would argue they should charge the true cost of those to the people who use them? Given that the bus users buy a much smaller average amount than the car users, the people relying on those buses would end up saving pennies, but paying pounds.

 

The supermarket also provides "free" advertising to local businesses, and "free" advertising to customers who want to put a card up. Maybe we should work out the true cost of the advertising space, and charge that? It also provides "free" guided tours to local schools and Scout/Brownie groups, so they should presumably be charged as well? Oh, and they also give out "free" food samples, and collect vouchers for "free" items for the local schools/charities. They even give "free" items for raffle prizes for local events. They also sell stamps (something they are not permitted to make money on), and even provide a postbox in store.

 

Then of course they provide "free" toilets, they are subsidised by people with stronger bladders, and "free" nappies for that emergency. I have been provided with "free" phone calls in an emergency, and I know of people who were sent home in a "free" taxi when their bus did not turn up. Oh, and they provide "free" breakdown cover in their car parks, and "free" loyalty scheme points.

 

 

Given that my local supermarket is not registered as a charity, I can only assume the all this "free" stuff actually works for them to increase their profits. They wish to attract customers to their stores, so they offer all these "extra" services. The cafe can be loss making, the bread is sold at a loss, alcohol prices are kept artificially low to get people to visit, from their point of view it is worth doing.

 

At one point in time, when I worked for a retailer, the comment was made that it would be worth giving every customer who came through the door a £1 for visiting - and that is what all this "free" stuff is, the bribe to get us in the shop to start spending.

[lamma]

Get rid of free store parking which isn't really free its just subsidised by those that use the bus and make everyone pay on exit any money they make out of it can be used to make the goods cheaper.

 

Free parking is often part of the planning permission.