urgent advice please

[rusty24]

We owe over 2000 pounds in council business rates, and a female bailif was let in by my wife, on the pretex it was to set up a payment plan. but just before finalising this the bailif said she needs to list what we own so they know they can recover their money if we fail to pay one week. My wife said no, they were in the kitchen and the bailif listed the washer , the kettle and the microwave,and toaster. but my wife refused to sign this list, the bailif walked out saying she would be getting the van round to take things tomorrow. My wife had already paid her 140 pounds at the start of this conversation.

On the copy the bailif wrote there are three charges, £24.50 first visit, £18.00 second visit. 81.00 levy fee. the 140 pounds is to come of the total owed she said.

Where do we stand with the fact my wife let her in, all doors inside were closed and nothing else was on view. Very worried please advise.

Because she couldnt walk around the house to list things, the bailif said the payment agreement couldnt be made.

[ploddertom]

What status does your business trade as? Is the money you confirmed by the Council or is that what the Bailiff told you? Was the Bailiff invited in by your wife? Did you subsequently ask her to leave? How many visits have they made? I make the assumption this was a 3rd visit - could you confirm? Did the Bailiff leave you a Notice of Seizure? Could you list all the items on it if you have it as some described above may be exempt.

 

PT

[rusty24]

Hi PT thanks for the reply. Our business is closed down as of september. Its the rates we couldnt pay for the last few weeks, the council said they would send a form for us to sign so we could agree a payment plan. but we recieved no form , but a letter from the bailif, to which my wife phoned and arranged the second visit which is what iv described above. As far as I know it was two visits including the one above, and the notice that was left is called a notice of distress. when my wife refused to sign this form after the bailif listed some kitchen items, the lady bailif just walked out saying she would get the van round.

My wife did ask her in, as she thought she was so nice.

Even though I had advised my wife to not let her in, so now Im worried.

The ammount was confirmed by the council, but the added extras are the bailifs.

they have added on £123

These are listed on the notice,

1xwhite toaster

1xkettle

1xmicrowave

1xwashing machine

Also halfway down the notice of distress under the list of items it says, walking possession agreement.

Edited November 3, 2010 by rusty24

[ploddertom]

Hi PT thanks for the reply. Our business is closed down as of september. Sorry to hear that - were you by chance a Ltd Company Its the rates we couldnt pay for the last few weeks, do you know what period of time they are claiming for, it sounds to me as if they are trying up to 31 March next year. the council said they would send a form for us to sign so we could agree a payment plan. How long ago did they tell you this and is there any proof of the conversation but we recieved no form , but a letter from the bailif, to which my wife phoned and arranged the second visit when was the first visit which is what iv described above. As far as I know it was two visits including the one above, and the notice that was left is called a notice of distress. when my wife refused to sign this form no problem there it just stops them charging for a walking Possession after the bailif listed some kitchen items, the lady bailif just walked out saying she would get the van round.

My wife did ask her in, as she thought she was so nice. Little known fact that if you actually invite them in and you then ask them to leave and they refuse they are committing trespass and may be forcibly ejected.

Even though I had advised my wife to not let her in, so now Im worried.

The ammount was confirmed by the council, but the added extras are the bailifs.

they have added on £123

These are listed on the notice,

1xwhite toaster

1xkettle

1xmicrowave

1xwashing machine

 

Don't worry about what is on there, they can't remove the washing machine anyway, the rest of the items if removed would only fetch at most some £25 at auction. You should write to them and tell them that you believe the Bailiff has only levied on goods in order to make a financial gain for herself and her Company. Goods if removed must cover:

1 - the Bailiffs fees

2 - all removal & storage costs

3 - the Auctioneers costs

4 - all the auction costs

5 - a proportion of the debt outstanding

Therefore you ask that they remove all levy costs and associated charges.

 

If this was done on their 2nd visit they cannot charge a Visit Fee & a Levy Fee at the same time. If they refuse to entertain you you can issue a complaint against the Council in the Magistrates Court for an aggrieved levy. Whatever you write to the Bailiff send a copy by email and post - use Signed For, you should also send another copy to the Council with a note for it to be put on your file.

 

In the meantime if she comes back refuse her any entry despite any threats she makes - they are all hot air. However do make sure all your doors and windows are kept locked, if you have a car move it at least 10 minutes away, and put away any other items you may have outside. You should also check to see if the Bailiff is Certificated - link above in Stickies.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

Do I wave to our guests or use an anglo saxon sign.

:lol:

 

PT

[rusty24]

Thanks PT, so we can just ognore her? my wife was going to call her tomorrow to try and pay more money. How would we pay what we owe to the council if we are ignoring the bailif? wont they keep adding charges?

Also there is no name thats readable on the notice or the reciept for the 140 pounds, just a ref number, can I still check if she is certificated?

 

Just realised your answers in the quote.

we were not limited, and the rates were nearly 300 pounds a week, thats why we owe so much for only a couple of months.

It was a few weeks ago maybe six or seven, but we have no proof of the conversation.

Im assumuming the first visit was putting the letter through the letter box, ill need to ask my wife.

Edited November 3, 2010 by rusty24

[ploddertom]

You can still pay the Council direct, in theory if you go into the office and tender payment they are supposed to accept it - some get jobsworth about it and refuse. Alternatively as long as you have the account number you can pay via the Council website or automated phone service. As long as you pay a regular amount on a regular basis - £5/£10 per week it shows willing on your behalf.

 

Tomorrow morning you need to ring the Council and ask:

1 - How much the Liability Order for NNDR is

2 - How much is still outstanding

3 - what period of time it covers

 

I can't stress enough not to ring the Bailiff unless you can record the call - they usually have selective memories afterwards, do everything in writing and if by email make sure to back it up through the post and always use a trackable service - be wary if they use a PO Box as you can't get a signature - look for an alternative address.

 

You should also send off for a Breakdown of their charges, here's an example adapt and use as you see fit, send by email and post using Signed For:

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

PT

[rusty24]

Its all getting complicated, PT, Ill have to ask my wife about the first visit?

What do we do if a jobsworth does refuse to accept payment? As we dont do financial on the pc at all.

Also what is NNDR Please?

Im afraid I need to go to bed, early long day at work tomorrow, but thanks very much PT for your help, Ill try and get this started tomorrow night. And will probably be asking you more questions, thanks again.

[ploddertom]

Its all getting complicated, PT, Ill have to ask my wife about the first visit?

What do we do if a jobsworth does refuse to accept payment? As we dont do financial on the pc at all. - not a lot if they refuse but if they do ask their name and job title then ask to see a manager who you then register a complaint with.

Also what is NNDR Please? National Non-Domestic Rates - business rates

Im afraid I need to go to bed, early long day at work tomorrow, makes 2 of us but thanks very much PT for your help, Ill try and get this started tomorrow night. And will probably be asking you more questions, thanks again.

 

By tomorrow there will probably be other suggestions/questions from others as well. The more input there is the more you will be armed with. Most here have been through similar at some stage.

 

PT

[marinachild:-)]

Get a pay plan payment card make a payment weekly then send a letter to the councils chief executive about the bailiff and anything u send keep copies. Also send a letter to bailiffs firm telling them to contact you by letter only. Threaten them with informing the county court where the bailiff has been certificated from.

 

 

 

Remember they are bullies looking for easy money.

[rusty24]

we have come to an arrangement, but out of the blue they slapped a 12 pound charge on top of everything else? this is with no more visits, and the lady who did visit twice put this on her copy of the distress thing, but its not on ours, very strange?

[marinachild:-)]

Ask for a breakdown of costs.

Then send it to the chief executive of your council.

[ploddertom]

Marinachild is right yo now need the breakdown to see what you are being charged - see Post 7 for details of what to write. This £12 charge will be a fabricated one, they will try to argue that as it's for business rates they can charge what they like. As for Council Tax they can only charge what is set down in the Regulations and any deviation can be challenged. Have you also confirmed with the Council what the original amount was and how much they say is still outstanding. On the subject of the Council were your premises on a lease - private or otherwise - and for what period of time does the Liability Order cover. Have you also checked to see if the Bailiff is Certificated, if so who to or is she self employed, if self employed you then need to ask the Council whether they allow their contractor to sub-contract work back out.

 

PT

[rusty24]

The 12 pounds was called walking possession? We did get a lower figure of the council and have agreed a weekly amount with the bailifs, Im going to get the breakdown letter done tomorrow as work has been twelve hour shifts six and seven days and have been too tired to do anything. The premisies were private lease and we are being charged for the correct time we owe on it. I havnt asked about her being certificated so will do that with the breakdown letter.

The total costs have been £24.50 first visit, £18.00 second and while on the second visit there was a £60.00 levy fee, these were on the carbon copy of our distress form, but now it seems she added the £12.00 to hers called a walking possession fee? Which are not on ours?

[gstanny]

if you signed the levy you owe the £12 but as you refused to sign it you do not owe it.

[rusty24]

My wife didnt sign anything. Also she refused her freedom to roam our house to list things, so she listed what she could in the kitchen and walked out. Iv just been told by my wife that when she queried the £12 that isnt on our copy and has just been added, the man on the phone said put it in writing, it stands. So I will be doing some writing as soon as I can.

[seanamarts]

Stop calling these numpties you will just get more stressed about it, Do everything my snail mail or email, Half the time these people dont know whats been done and just make it up as they go along.

[rusty24]

bb

Edited November 21, 2010 by rusty24

[rusty24]

Just found out of my wife , when she got the reciept for the money she paid she signed the top part of the sheet the reciept was ripped off from the bottom, is this anything to worry about? Iv heard of forged signitures in other threads?

[rusty24]

if you signed the levy you owe the £12 but as you refused to sign it you do not owe it.

 

My mistake, they have listed the levy fee as £81 on the notice of distress? Done while on the second visit when the payment plan was supposed to be started.

[fork-it]

We owe over 2000 pounds in council business rates,

 

My wife had already paid her 140 pounds at the start of this conversation.

 

On the copy the bailif wrote there are three charges, £24.50 first visit, £18.00 second visit. 81.00 levy fee. the 140 pounds is to come of the total owed she said.

 

Where do we stand .

 

The £81 levy fee isnt right because you made a payment there not requiring the levy to be put in place. The law does not provide for a fee of £81 for a levy. The bailiff has just made that figure up. See Regulation 3© of the Non-Domestic Rating (Collection and Enforcement) (Amendment and Miscellaneous Provision) Regulations 1993 and The Council Tax and Non-Domestic Rating (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2006. It does provide £24.50/£18 for max 2 visits.

 

Phone the council and ask how much money the bailiff has paid into your account. If none, then I'm afraid the bailiff could be embezzling your money.

[rusty24]

Thank you, Ill get on it this week.

[rusty24]

Just a thought, but as they have illegally taken money from us, can I not report them to the police as theft?

We called the council and asked how much was paid out of the £140,00 we paid them, and only £4.40p has been paid. they have added £12 that isnt on our copy to the already illegal ammounts. We are sending the first letter tomorrow and a copy is going to the council who said they will put a sign on our file so letters they recieve are kept on file. Also we will ask the council tomorrow which court it went through, and they will be getting copies of all mail too.

I really feel like reporting them to the police, as it really does feel like we have been robbed in our own home.

[night-watchman]

Unfortunately I doubt the police would be interested, but you may get more help by contacting a local solicitor who deals with situations like this. The first half hour is free so would only cost you a little time. You need to establish how you stand on a legal level.

[ploddertom]

Have you sent off for a breakdown of their fees yet - see post 7 for details. Until you get this there is not much else you can do at present apart from getting increasingly frustrated.

 

PT