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Hi all.

 

I have had a copy of my credit agreement back for 1 of my Lowell accounts after a CCA request.

 

They say that "Unfortunately we are unable to locate a copy of an executed agreement, but for your information we enclose a copy of the current agreement which applied to this type of account. This version includes all contractual variations which have taken place."

 

This letter came directly from Shop Direct and not Lowell, I don't know if this means that Shop Direct still own the account or Lowell does as they claim.

 

Anyway, without a signed agreement what are my options? Will I still have to pay because I have made payments on this account in the past?

 

I look forward to your advice.

 

Regards

 

Jas

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Hi all.

 

I have had a copy of my credit agreement back for 1 of my Lowell accounts after a CCA request.

 

They say that "Unfortunately we are unable to locate a copy of an executed agreement, but for your information we enclose a copy of the current agreement which applied to this type of account. This version includes all contractual variations which have taken place."

 

This letter came directly from Shop Direct and not Lowell, I don't know if this means that Shop Direct still own the account or Lowell does as they claim.

 

Anyway, without a signed agreement what are my options? Will I still have to pay because I have made payments on this account in the past?

 

I look forward to your advice.

 

Regards

 

Jas

 

Unfortunately they are allowed to do what they have done, and from their wording are obviously accutely aware of the Carey case. The lack of signature could have been a problem, but as you've made payments you've effectively admitted to knowing that you did enter into an agreement with them.

 

It is worth you posting up what they sent you (removing personal details) in case we can see a different way forward, and as I always say I'm only human so may be wrong - for your sake I hope I am! See what a couple of others say, but posting up what they sent would be handy anyway.

 

Tingy

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Hi.

 

Unfortunately I have just found out than I am unable to post links because of my post count (Below 20).

 

I have scanned them to photobucket. Now I'm not sure how to show them here lol.

 

Regards

 

Jas

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scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I've never used it, but I would imagine you:

 

Go into photobucket to the relevant page.

 

Go up to the web address, left click (it should turn blue)

 

Put the cursor in the blue bit, right click and click copy

 

Go back to your post on the CAG thread, right click and click paste

 

Hopefully the link to the page will then appear, but I've never used it so just guessing from what I know about computers.

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users below 20 posts cannot post links etc

 

but can do atts as in my last post

 

this is to stop spammers

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi.

 

Unfortunately I have just found out than I am unable to post links because of my post count (Below 20).

 

I have scanned them to photobucket. Now I'm not sure how to show them here lol.

 

Regards

 

Jas

 

So you just reply to 8 posts (any) with just a note 'subbing' meaning subscribing to thread to bring your posts above the 20.

 

You then add a post to your thread with the url link to the photobucket page.

We could do with some help from you.

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Firstly, hi ... Not quite sure why you have told them you have depression.

 

 

But you are quite correct, in that they can't ask you for this.

 

Your best bet here would be to request a copy of your credit agreement from them. Alternatively, you could make £1 token payments. I would say some DCAs like to scare people ...

 

Another alternative is to try and claim those back. The rest of your situation, I'll let the more experiened people here give suggestions. But what they have told you about getting letters from your GP is hogwash.

 

One other useful piece of information to get you started is to give a timeline on how long you've been dealing with the DCA, what year if you can remember the agreement is from. Lastly, don't speak, don't write to them until you get more advice from here.

 

No. Don't send them anything like that. They aren't entitled to it. They will kid you you have to.

 

So put them out of your mind, allow the more experienced ones here to help you, read their suggestions and have a read around the forum for some useful tips until someone better experienced can help. But the crux here, is no DCA has the legal right to medical history's or any letters they say you have to send them. I hope this clears that up for you.

 

Without a court order, they can't send bailifs to your home.

 

 

Why, if I may ask? There are other things, as I touched on briefly above, that can be done in your situation before any of that may become necessary.

 

BTW, Lowells can't add charges to your account the same way Littlewoods have as far as I know.

 

 

 

So, they've confirmed that in writing to you?

 

 

Hi there

The other charge of 12 GBP for a letter is [edit] unlawful [its is not illegal as its not criminal!]

Not allowed so any debt passed on must NOT include that charge.

 

Bailliff's --not that these are any good for enforcing relatively small amouts of debt anyway -- as I often point out second hand stuff these days is worth ZILCH --even large screen TV's don't fetch much at auction -- CANNOT in any case be used without a Court order which a DCA won't get anyway. Even if they DID turn up you don't have to let them in anyway.

 

Complain vigorously to OFT about unfair and intimidating tactics used by a Debt collection agency in pursuing its claim --there ARE guidlines to be followed by DCA's in collecting debts and Harrassment isn't one of them --although reading about the various practices used by DCA's you'd never know it.

 

Finally ONLY A COURT has the right to demand your income and expenditure --never EVER send these sorts of details to a Debt collection agency.

 

YOU decide how much if any to pay them NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. If they don't like it THEY can go to court and you will probably get a better deal such as a 1 GBP a month token payment.

 

Don't get scared of a Court. DCA's are no better than Play Ground Bully Scumbags --they soon fold once YOU challenge THEM.

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited by jimbo45
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So you just reply to 8 posts (any) with just a note 'subbing' meaning subscribing to thread to bring your posts above the 20.

 

You then add a post to your thread with the url link to the photobucket page.

 

Ok!

 

Thanks very much, good idea btw :-)

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Ok, Hi all.

 

I think I have managed to scan the 3 pages I received back from Littlewoods, here they are:-

 

Page 1 - http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa373/jas1304/Page1.jpg

 

Page 2 - http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa373/jas1304/Page2.jpg

 

Page 3 - http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa373/jas1304/Page3.jpg

 

Once again thanks for your help, I really do appreciate it.

 

Jas

Edited by jas1304
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I thought they were also required to send a statement of all payments to an account from inception to the current date, as well as a breakdown of any PPI payments, interest/late charges added to the account, defaults and related charges added, etc. when requested to do so in order to be fully compliant with a CCA request.

Please note, I am not professionally qualified in legal matters. Should you have any doubts, you should contact a legal expert.

However, I can and will help with matters regarding payroll as I am fully qualified.

 

If I've helped in any way, you're welcome to click on my "star" and thanks, but I gain the most satisfaction simply by helping/reassuring :O)

 

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no thats an sar

 

cca is agreement & current statement of a/c

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Ah, right. Thanks DX :)

Please note, I am not professionally qualified in legal matters. Should you have any doubts, you should contact a legal expert.

However, I can and will help with matters regarding payroll as I am fully qualified.

 

If I've helped in any way, you're welcome to click on my "star" and thanks, but I gain the most satisfaction simply by helping/reassuring :O)

 

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they should not be adding any markers unless they own the debt

and you have recently failed to make any agreement with them.

 

no cca - no pay!!

 

fire off the failure to comply letter if they've taken more than 12+2working days since CCA

and stop payments to any debt without one.

 

dx

 

 

Unfortunately they are allowed to do what they have done, and from their wording are obviously accutely aware of the Carey case. The lack of signature could have been a problem, but as you've made payments you've effectively admitted to knowing that you did enter into an agreement with them.

 

It is worth you posting up what they sent you (removing personal details) in case we can see a different way forward, and as I always say I'm only human so may be wrong - for your sake I hope I am! See what a couple of others say, but posting up what they sent would be handy anyway.

 

Tingy

 

Hi thanks for your replies quoted here.

 

I need to try and get this clear for future reference.

 

So what's basically being said here is that if they do not provide a CCA, in any form whatsoever (eg, signed, unsigned) then I could have fired off a non-compliance letter? If indeed they do reply, which is what they have done in my case, then basically whether they have sent me an unsigned copy or signed copy the law is the same - Pay up.

 

So basically the only advantage of requesting a CCA is if they do not produce any agreement at all?

 

Or is it now only enforceable in my case because I have made payments and no doubt in the past admitted to the debt?

 

As far as I can tell, in my case anyway, there would not be any point in sending any of my creditors a CCA request as providing they come up with their current Credit Agreement I would not have a leg to stand on?

 

Sorry if this sounds a little confusing, I'm confused lol, but please don't shout back lol - bear with me.

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It is very relevant to request your CCA, depending on the age of the agreement, and to ensure that they do indeed hold a copy of the original, the difficulty is that even without one, if they can prove to a Judge that there is a relationship between you and them, ie, regular payments in and out of said account or agreement, then the CCA argument is irrelavent, a CPR request might be more relevant when the creditor states that they do not have an original copy of the agreement, as they will need to provide evidence to the court of said relationship between both parties.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Ok.

 

Well thanks for all your help on here, I have certainly learned a fair bit from this thread and others alike.

 

I have decided on the balance of my situation to go along with my original post and not pay Lowell until a Court orders me to. This I am doing because, 1) - This will be taken to Court sooner rather than later, 2) - I have a fair bit of correspondence between myself and Littlewoods showing I did my best to deal with this debt, 3) - for my own sanity. In my case I do not believe I have any chance of getting this debt stopped in its tracks, i.e. documentary proof of a relationship between me and Littlewoods and Lowell, and this letter writing can get you down (in my case as I have now found out it's not going to make any difference to the outcome). 4) - I will apply for an Administration Order (after judgement), which if successful will hopefully lead to a Composition Order being made, which will effectively make all my debts go away in a relatively small length of time.

 

Once again I appreciate the time and effort everybody has given to help me and express my appreciation of this website. :clap2:

 

Regards

 

Jas

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Hi thanks for your replies quoted here.

 

I need to try and get this clear for future reference.

 

So what's basically being said here is that if they do not provide a CCA, in any form whatsoever (eg, signed, unsigned) then I could have fired off a non-compliance letter? If indeed they do reply, which is what they have done in my case, then basically whether they have sent me an unsigned copy or signed copy the law is the same - Pay up.

 

no not in the least - a reconstructed CCA is just that - recontructed, yypically, for them to go to court, they would NEED a signed one, if it doesn't [or never] existed, then they would have to rely on payments, now don't throw this baby out the pram either, - although you might have made payments, they could always be deemed as 'made under duress' - in other words - you knew no better than to cough up, but, if there is a previous history of a financial relationship between you and the OC, then i wouldn't even question the agreement. TBH: if you know you did have the money or goods - then sadly don't try it on!!!

 

 

 

So basically the only advantage of requesting a CCA is if they do not produce any agreement at all? as above

Or is it now only enforceable in my case because I have made payments and no doubt in the past admitted to the debt?

 

As far as I can tell, in my case anyway, there would not be any point in sending any of my creditors a CCA request as providing they come up with their current Credit Agreement I would not have a leg to stand on?

 

no as above.

 

Sorry if this sounds a little confusing, I'm confused lol, but please don't shout back lol - bear with me.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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dx - any template letter for a CPR request. I've read about these being requested, but didn't know what they were until now. What does CPR stand for? Is there a time limit in which to respond? And is there, as already asked, a template letter?

 

Thanks,

 

Tingy

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sorry there are many cpr number i'm not up on which version you need to send

 

court is not my game

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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To the OP: nip over to the legal issues forum and ask the question there :)

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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I think this is what you are looking for CPR31.16.....but read very carefully as this can be risky. Especially so where costs are concerned. I believe one cagger recently got disclosure but was forced to pay the other sides court appearance, (court judges can vary wildly !!) but there are some success stories...threads below (one of them is a huge thread too !!!)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?173201

 

Cagger CPR31.16 stories here -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?165349

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?166413

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?164356

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

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Here's another link which explains exactly what CPR request should be made in each situation:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/parts/part31.htm

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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