Universal Credit - Paragon, unfair interest please help,interest after ccj

[robbiecool]

Universal credit CCJ passed onto Paragon, 15 years on and I owe more than the CCJ

 

Hi all, I really could do with some advice and hopefully direction on this matter as I am yet another unfortunate who has had interest reinstated by Paragon. Previously Universal Credit.

 

Having read numerous parts of the Consumer credit act 1974 I think I may just e able to stand up to them and hopefully help others reading this site also. Typically I am concerned that I am reading it with a bias eye and what have found will get blown straight out of the water by Paragon.

 

Here is my story I will try to give you as much detail without boring you so please stick with it.

 

My story

 

I took out a loan with Universal Credit in 1994 for £8,000 to try and consolidate a few other debts I already had, they had an interest rate of 39.9% PA but at the time it seemed like a good idea to consolidate what debts I could. In 1995 after a change in circumstances I fell behind with this and about 3 other debts. This resulted in me having a few CCJ’s entered against me. Universal Credit accepted a monthly payment of £50 and entered a Judgement against me for £10,141 to be paid back at £50 per month with no end date.

 

To my knowledge I have all the letters ever sent to me including Paragons welcome letter in 1998 etc etc and no mention of interest at all. They have asked me to increase payments which I happily did as I believed that I was chipping away at the debt slowly but surely and as with other CCJ’s it was just a matter of time and I would be all paid up.

 

In August 2008 Paragon sent me a letter to advise me of my “current financial position” which was £12,895.45 in debt, as you can imagine I was puzzled, I rang them and they said they couldn’t comment on when interest was reinstated just that it had been and that I should write to them. I did and asked how after paying approx £8,000 back I could still be so much in debt? All I got back was a letter saying that they had been attempting to contact me and that I should call them? (they also had the cheek to charge me £10 for the letter)

 

I did and was told verbally that I had indeed almost paid the debt off but they still wouldn’t comment on any interest. They suggested that if I increased the payments further it would help me to clear it quicker, so I increased them to £100 per month still in a blind hope that it was coming to an end.

 

Last month I had another statement saying that I owed £12,595.33 which means that by paying them £2,400 over the last two years I have decreased my debt by £400.

 

I again rang up on the 21st September and asked to speak to a manager to sort this out as I believe I have paid the full amount easily by now. They again said that they couldn’t comment but this time to my surprise they said that they would pass it up to their management and that I would receive a letter within a few days clarifying my situation. 1st October and no letter so I rang up again, still no answer as my case account was still under review. A few more days and I had a letter charging me £20 for me phoning them so I rang up again and was told that it was an error and they had the phone call logged but didn’t know it was incoming, they told me that now it was in the hands of their solicitors and that they would contact me in a couple of weeks.

 

Last week I received a letter stating that my balance was £12,600.04 and enclosed was a copy of the original credit agreement. It looks genuine enough but on the back is a box stating “Conditions” and they have highlighted in the miscellaneous section a paragraph stating:

 

(a)If the company obtains judgment against either or both of the Customer(s) in respect of any monies payable under this Agreement then interested on the amount of the judgement will be payable y the Customer(s) at the rate in force on the loan immediately before judgement.

 

I like to think of myself as honest although arguably stupid in the past I have paid off all my other debts but this one is now 15 / 16 years old and I just don’t ever see there being and end to this. I have been reading all the other posts across the forums and wasn’t holding out much hope in putting up a fight but it just seems to be that adding interest back on at some point after the judgement is just unfair? They have still not after me asking a couple of times yet told me when the interest was reinstated. I think this is where I may be able to put up a fight?

 

The details

 

On the bottom on my CCJ there is a box saying “take notice” and there is says in brackets (including interest*) and at the bottom the star refers to: *If Judgement is for more than £5000 the plaintiff may be entitled to interest

 

Please note that this does say MAY be entitled

 

After reading “The County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991”

 

It states that……

 

The general rule

2.—(1) Subject to the following provisions of this Order, every judgmentdebt under a relevant judgment shall, to the extent that it remainsunsatisfied, carry interest under this Order from the date on which therelevant judgment was given.

(2) In the case of a judgment or order for the payment of a judgmentdebt, other than costs, the amount of which has to be determined at alater date, the judgment debt shall carry interest from that later date.

(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevantjudgment—

(a)is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreementregulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974(1);

 

This is my first point which I think I might have a case not to pay the interest the full article is here:(sorry can't add links but if you email me i will happily sent them to you)

 

 

 

 

So whilst I realise that this is the general rule and not set in stone anywhere I started reading the Consumer credit act 1974 Which my agreement states it is regulated by and that signing it legally binds me by it’s terms, this is where I found this little gem: (sorry can't add links but if you email me i will happily sent them to you)

 

130A Interest payable on judgment debts etc.

 

(1)If the creditor or owner under a regulated agreement wants to be able to recover from the debtor or hirer post-judgment interest in connection with a sum that is required to be paid under a judgment given in relation to the agreement (the ‘judgment sum’), he—

 

(a)after the giving of that judgment, shall give the debtor or hirer a notice under this section (the ‘first required notice’); and

 

(b)after the giving of the first required notice, shall give the debtor or hirer further notices under this section at intervals of not more than six months.

 

(2)The debtor or hirer shall have no liability to pay post-judgment interest in connection with the judgment sum to the extent that the interest is calculated by reference to a period occurring before the day on which he is given the first required notice.

 

(3)If the creditor or owner fails to give the debtor or hirer a notice under this section within the period of six months beginning with the day after the day on which such a notice was last given to the debtor or hirer, the debtor or hirer shall have no liability to pay post-judgment interest in connection with the judgment sum to the extent that the interest is calculated by reference to the whole or to a part of the period which—

 

(a)begins immediately after the end of that period of six months; and

 

(b)ends at the end of the day on which the notice is given to the debtor or hirer.

 

(4)The debtor or hirer shall have no liability to pay any sum in connection with the preparation or the giving to him of a notice under this section.

 

(5)A notice under this section may be incorporated in a statement or other notice which the creditor or owner gives the debtor or hirer in relation to the agreement by virtue of another provision of this Act.

 

(6)Regulations may make provision about the form and content of notices under this section.

 

(7)This section does not apply in relation to post-judgment interest which is required to be paid by virtue of any of the following—

 

(a)section 4 of the Administration of Justice (Scotland) Act 1972;

 

(b)Article 127 of the Judgments Enforcement (Northern Ireland) Order 1981;

 

©section 74 of the County Courts Act 1984.

 

(8)This section does not apply in relation to a non-commercial agreement or to a small agreement.

 

(9)In this section ‘post-judgment interest’ means interest to the extent calculated by reference to a period occurring after the giving of the judgment under which the judgment sum is required to be paid.

 

 

 

My Plea for Guidance

 

In short I have had no notice whatsoever of them reinstating interest and the first statement I received was some 13 years after the Judgement!

I hope this is enough information for one of you kind souls to be able to guide me in what my next move is, I am currently still paying the £100 per month as I’m afraid of what might happen if I stopped.

 

Please help.

 

Robbie

[MARTIN3030]

Hi Rob welcome to the site.

Looks like you have given some depth of info to prompt some pointers.

I will move your thread from here to a more appropriate forum.

Can you also confirm if there has been any request for you to increase payments or threats of enforcement action ?

[robbiecool]

Hi

No threats of action, I was assuming that is because I keep paying and have never missed a single payment? A few years ago they asked me to contact them to discuss our arangement, they increased the payments from 50 to 60 pcm but nothing from then to 2008. I did mention during one of the recent phone conversations how could i be expected to clear this and they said that the only way would be to increase payments to the original £240 ish per month and wait 8 years, if not it would keep going on and on.

thanks

Rob

Edited November 2, 2010 by robbiecool

[MARTIN3030]

Ok understood.

Bit late for replies now-guess there will be some more later:)

[ploddertom]

Do you still have a copy of the original Order? If so what does it say - may pay to scan and post up removing all personal details.

 

PT

[robbiecool]

Here is a copy of the original Summons and Judgement

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22948[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]22949[/ATTACH]

[ploddertom]

Sorry they come up as Invalid Attachments. Believe most use Photobucket for this type of thing but I haven't a clue how to use it.

 

PT

[robbiecool]

I'll try again but if still no good i'll try and figure out the photobucket, please let me know if these are viewable?

 

 

[42man]

Hi Robbie....it would be good to see those (they are a little small). Did you ever send off for a copy of the agreement ? have you sent a SAR to the creditor ? Any PPI on the loan ?....

[sillygirl1]

I would get back to the court and state that they are abusing the process of a CCJ and interest, they should only be charging 8% contractual interest and not the interest stated on the agreement as the agreement has effectively been terminated by the granting of the CCJ.

 

The court would also be interested as to why you have been paying MORE than their original judgement - even if it was a money judgement.

[robbiecool]

Hi 42Man

I'm not sure if it's editing that's stripping them or the upload. here they are again plus the agreement and conditions.

 

I haven't sent off a SAR yet but as for PPI there is some insurance but not really descriptive.

 

 

 

 

[robbiecool]

I am sorry but went through the whole photo bucket thing and at present i can't add links as i haven't posted enough or something like that?

[robbiecool]

Hi Sillygirl1

Thanks i will give the court a call and let you know what they say

[robbiecool]

Hi again 42man

I am getting a little confused, if I follow the link for the SAR it takes me to library and I can see amongst the templates a letter to "Ask your creditor for a copy of your credit agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974". They sent me this last week without me even asking (it was one sheet of paper with agreement on one side and conditions on the other as per my poor photos). Is this the SAR you mean?

 

Looking around on the web I have seen something also called a SAR that asks for all information held, under some 1984 & 1998 Consumer Credit Act and costs £10 and they have something like 40 days to reply.

 

What is it I actually need to use and could you point me to the right template please, I think it might be the £10 one as I think I need to know:

- Exactly when interest was re-applied

- A copy of the “first required Notice” that they were applying Post-Judgement Interest to the judgement debt.

- Subsequent copies of the notices they are required to sent me every six months?

- At what rate the interest has been applied

- Statements – All of them I would imagine since the Judgement

Sorry to be so confused but are there guidelines on what I can ask for or just everything and make a big list?