Jump to content


pcn 30 parked for longer than permitted. URGENT HELP


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3915 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

hi,

just got a ticket for parking on a singal yellow line with a disabled badge in ealing and it stated that the vehical was parked for more then the time permitted, i want to fight it!!!

 

the time was showing 11am and we checked the vehical when we walked passed it at approcimately 13:30 and when we was about to leave at 14:00 we noticed a ticket was on the windscreen.

 

please help me on how to fight it and what kind of letter to write to them.

 

thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is nothing here to indicate why a PCN might have been issued. I would suggest you phone the council in question and ask why. Then come back on here and tell us what they say. You can't draw up an effective appeal letter unless you know.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The scan is too small to read. Maybe if you load it onto Photobucket, and let us have the web address so we can see it?

 

If you want to ask for proof just ask. They may or may not agree to send you copies of the photos. But photos won't help - you need to find out why they issued it. To do that you will need to ask them. If I were you I would phone them in the morning and ask. When you know, then you will be in a better position to know how to appeal.

Link to post
Share on other sites

how can i ask them for proof beacuse want to see the pictures they have taken.

 

Code 30: parked longer than permitted. Disabled badge holders are allowed to park on Single Yellow Line for certain maximum hours usually in places it's 3hrs. Now the question is how a CEO can determine whether the vehicle was stationary on the place for more than 3 hours.

 

1) Time Clock: it's needed to park on Single/Double Yellow lines because of limited hours allowed. If not displayed, then the contravention is parked on Single Yellow Line. Driver has the responsibility to set correct time of arrival.

2) First Observation: The first time a CEO logs a vehicle.

 

The details should include front and rear valve postion and exact location.Also CEO's note should reflect that the vehicle was displaying a badge and time set on clock.It is important that CEO put these on pocketbook as well on Hand Held Computer.If pocketbook entries are missing, it can be easily argued that digital notes can easily be altered at any later times and dates; this is a FACT.

 

Now what I'm not sure is whether it is compulsory for CEO to note these details. But missing on these, one can always make a case that the vehicle was not on the SAME PLACE during WHOLE OF OBSERVED PERIOD. Moved then re-parked which I believe is allowed.

 

3) Second Observation: CEO confirms the vehicle has not moved since the first observation.

If the front and rear valve position together with the exact location (ie O/s 24 or 3M to Lamp Post 1) matches with the one that was taken on 1st observation, then no doubt the vehicle was stationary at the same location for that amount of time.

 

Provided that there is a detailed entries for First observation.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would argue that the CEO has used the wrong contravention. If you had parked for longer than the permitted 3 hours a blue badge entitles you to on a yellow line then strictly speaking your vehicle no longer qualified to be exempt from the "No Waiting" prohibition and so the contravention in my view should be code 01 "parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours".

Link to post
Share on other sites

code 30 is the right contravention. Ask to see first observation on CEO's handwritten pocketbook.

 

What makes you so sure? I've been in this game a while and every PCN that I've seen issued for the same circumstance has been a code 01. If you are right then that makes a lot of CEO's wrong.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Then probably IMO all CEO's who issue code 01 in circumstances are wrong which in wordings read as " parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours". BB holders are allowed to PARK on Single or Double Yellow line for maximum of upto 3 hours in England and Wales except on places of loading ban provided that a badge and time clock was displayed.

 

The maximum time doesn't define for a day on the place but for a vehicle without moving. The difference is that the vehicle did actually moved but still appears to be in same location. If the vehicle had moved then the exemptionl applies again. The exemption will re-apply whenever a vehicle moves no matter the distance. OP (or anyone with BB) had displayed both so technically they're allowed to park. There is no contravention for code 01 at the time of arrival and all the period of it's stay if requirements to display badge and clock is met.

Edited by starfarer
Link to post
Share on other sites

Then probably IMO all CEO's who issue code 01 in circumstances are wrong which in wordings read as " parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours". BB holders are allowed to PARK on Single or Double Yellow line for maximum of upto 3 hours in England and Wales except on places of loading ban provided that a badge and time clock was displayed. OP (or anyone with BB) had displayed both so technically they're allowed to park. There is no contravention for code 01 at the time of arrival and all the period of it's stay if requirements to display badge and clock is met. Only that the vehicle has now over-stayed than permitted time limit which is code 30.

 

I think you are forgetting 1 crucial point.

 

Traffic orders do not prescribe that it is a contravention for a blue badge holder to park beyond the 3 hour limit. The reason for this is that the exemption only applies for 3 hours and once this period has expired then no exemption from the "No Waiting" restriction applies and so the contravention will be code 01.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree with TDB.

 

The 3-hour rule applies inside and outside of CPZs and is not covered by (and is in fact beyond the jurisdiction of) decriminalised parking enforcement. Breaching it therefore does not contravene any regulation contained within the provisions of decriminalised parking.

 

If the 3-hour rule is breached, the presence of the vehicle then becomes an issue for a CEO, who is at liberty to issue a PCN for being on the yellow lines. Hence, an 01 is appropriate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The 3-hour rule applies inside and outside of CPZs and is not covered by (and is in fact beyond the jurisdiction of) decriminalised parking enforcement. Breaching it therefore does not contravene any regulation contained within the provisions of decriminalised parking.

 

Traffic orders do not prescribe that it is a contravention for a blue badge holder to park beyond the 3 hour limit. The reason for this is that the exemption only applies for 3 hours and once this period has expired then no exemption from the "No Waiting" restriction applies and so the contravention will be code 01.

 

If I'm reading correctly then both bold sentences means it is not a contravention to park on single yellow line even after 3 hours. Code 30 then is a breach of BB scheme allowed by LA.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The PCN does not need to state the 'law' that has been contravened just the grounds for issuing a PCN, the grounds are it has exceeded the 3 hour limit so it could be seen to be correct.

 

Ahh lot clearer now. But is it to say that both contraventions (ie 01 and 30) can be applied without complications?

Link to post
Share on other sites

If I'm reading correctly then both bold sentences means it is not a contravention to park on single yellow line even after 3 hours. Code 30 then is a breach of BB scheme allowed by LA.

 

It's a contravention to park on the yellow line while it is in force. External to this, there is an exemption for BB holders for three hours. Once that is 'used up' the vehicle has no exemption and so is by default parked on a SYL in contravention of that SYL. That's why I think an 01 is correct.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding the question of whether the CEO would know if the vehicle moved or not, CEO's have a little trick they use. They note in terms of a clockface the tyre valves. Looking from the footpath they will note '11 & 4' for example, indicating the the first tyre valve is at 11 o'clock and the second at 4 o'clock. When returning to the street they will see the same car and will then check their notes for the valve postion before making a decision. If they are the same they will deduce that the car has not moved as the probablilty of any car leaving and returning to the exact same spot with both front and rear tyres in exactly the same position is highly unlikely (although not impossible!)

 

HTH

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a contravention to park on the yellow line while it is in force. External to this, there is an exemption for BB holders for three hours. Once that is 'used up' the vehicle has no exemption and so is by default parked on a SYL in contravention of that SYL. That's why I think an 01 is correct.

 

Agreed. A PCN can only be served in situations detailed by Schedule 7 TMA 2004 and schedule 7 does not make it a contravention to exceed the 3 hour blue badge limit. Once the limit is exceeded then a PCN can be served for a breach of s.5 or s.8 RTRA 1984.

 

Certainly I see the logic of code 30 and can agree that it would help a blue badge holder understand better what they did wrong but the fact remains that it is a yellow line that has been contravened and I've never seen a traffic order worded in a manner so that it is a contravention for a blue badge holder to park for longer than permitted on a yellow line.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never seen a traffic order worded in a manner so that it is a contravention for a blue badge holder to park for longer than permitted on a yellow line.

 

neither is code 01.

 

I'm struggling to understand in words :-). Can you put few points to argue against wrong contravention for code 30? Lot easier to grasp the concept.

Edited by starfarer
Link to post
Share on other sites

neither is code 01.

 

The way many orders are drafted I agree code 01 is not always adequate in my view.

 

I'm struggling to understand in words :-). Can you put few points to argue against wrong contravention for code 30? Lot easier to grasp the concept.

 

Jamberson explained it much better than I. What do you think has been contravened that legitimises the use of code 30?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am starting to think that the code is in fact correct. I just found this on Worcester CC's website:

 

------------

 

Contravention Code 30 – Suffixes fnou

RTEmagicC_exceedmaximumstay.gif.gif

When a vehicle is parked in a time limited bay or on yellow lines with a genuine and valid Blue Badge and clock displayed for longer than permitted.

A PCN may be issued when the time shown on the clock has expired by longer than 5 minutes. If vehicle is attended, the driver will be asked to move on. If the driver refuses, a PCN will be issued.

 

------------

 

... so they clearly see it the same way the CEO did.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I think code 30 is more informative than code 01 for a blue badge holder in such a circumstance. However, the problem for enforcement is that there has to be a contravention as detailed here http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&title=traffic+management+act+2004&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&sortAlpha=0&TYPE=QS&PageNumber=1&NavFrom=0&parentActiveTextDocId=1606563&ActiveTextDocId=1606699&filesize=1523

 

The 3 hour limit is regulated by this regulation http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&title=The+Local+Authorities%e2%80%99+Traffic+Orders+(Exemptions+for+Disabled+Persons)+(England)+Regulations+2000+&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&sortAlpha=0&TYPE=QS&PageNumber=1&NavFrom=0&parentActiveTextDocId=2685536&ActiveTextDocId=2685546&filesize=3517

 

Schedule 7 TMA 2004 does not make it a contravention to fail to park in accordance with reg 8 above. So unless a traffic order specifically includes a provision that where a blue badge holder exceeds the 3 hour limit then they will be parked in contravention then nothing in schedule 7 will be applicable to give a ground of "parked for longer than permitted". Other councils clearly do use code 01 where the 3 hour limit is exceeded as can be seen from these threads.

 

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t54976-0.html

 

http://www.pepipoo.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t41402.html

 

At the end of the day for code 30 to apply something in schedule 7 needs to be contravened that correlates to code 30 and I don't see that it has been. Yet I can see how code 01 can correlate.

Edited by TheBogsDollocks
Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...