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Commercial Vehicle using a loading bay ticketed under 25J


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Please could somebody shed some light on this please.

 

I have a Peugeot Expert which is signwritten with my business advertsing on it. I used a loading bay in Southgate, Enfield for 13 minutes out of the allocated 20 minsutes that were permitted. In the post I received a PCN stating that I had contravened section 25J stating "parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading". Initially 4 pics were provided all of which show my van in the loading bay. Not one pic shows me leaving or returning to my vehicle. I then requested the CCTV footage which one again does not show meleaving or returning to my vehicle.

 

In contacting the parking office I stated the following: a) as the pics and CCTV do not show me leaving or returning to my vehicle, what proof is there that I did not leave or return with goods to my vehicle, which they haven't recorded.

b) I cited In the cases of .F & M Services, Karen Burgess, and one of the Jane Packer Flowers cases (residents etc. bay

cases) the exemption reads:

“Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions of this Order any vehicle may wait during the

permitted hours in any part of a parking place.....if....

h) ....the vehicle is waiting for the purpose of delivering or collecting goods at premises adjacent

to the parking place at which the vehicle is waiting.......”

c) “Goods” is defined in .Para 3(1) of the schedule as

“goods of any kind whether animate or inanimate and includes postal packets of any

description; and “delivering” and “collecting” in relation to any goods, include checking the

goods for the purpose of their delivery or collection”.

 

The reply is that goods are items whcih can only be loaded, due to their size and weight into the loading area and not placed in the cabin area. It also stated that the pics and CCTV are evidence that I was not loading (even tho their footage does not show me leaving and returning to my vehicle).

 

The situation is that I went to collect an item, which I was informed was ready,however the item was not suitable packaged and I left empty handed.

 

Surely, as I used the loading bay in good faith, believeing that the goods were ready I should not be fined.

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Please could somebody shed some light on this please.

 

I have a Peugeot Expert which is signwritten with my business advertsing on it. I used a loading bay in Southgate, Enfield for 13 minutes out of the allocated 20 minsutes that were permitted. In the post I received a PCN stating that I had contravened section 25J stating "parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading". Initially 4 pics were provided all of which show my van in the loading bay. Not one pic shows me leaving or returning to my vehicle. I then requested the CCTV footage which one again does not show meleaving or returning to my vehicle.

 

In contacting the parking office I stated the following: a) as the pics and CCTV do not show me leaving or returning to my vehicle, what proof is there that I did not leave or return with goods to my vehicle, which they haven't recorded.

b) I cited In the cases of .F & M Services, Karen Burgess, and one of the Jane Packer Flowers cases (residents etc. bay

cases) the exemption reads:

“Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions of this Order any vehicle may wait during the

permitted hours in any part of a parking place.....if....

h) ....the vehicle is waiting for the purpose of delivering or collecting goods at premises adjacent

to the parking place at which the vehicle is waiting.......”

c) “Goods” is defined in .Para 3(1) of the schedule as

“goods of any kind whether animate or inanimate and includes postal packets of any

description; and “delivering” and “collecting” in relation to any goods, include checking the

goods for the purpose of their delivery or collection”.

 

The reply is that goods are items whcih can only be loaded, due to their size and weight into the loading area and not placed in the cabin area. It also stated that the pics and CCTV are evidence that I was not loading (even tho their footage does not show me leaving and returning to my vehicle).

 

The situation is that I went to collect an item, which I was informed was ready,however the item was not suitable packaged and I left empty handed.

 

Surely, as I used the loading bay in good faith, believeing that the goods were ready I should not be fined.

 

You correctly interperate the exclusions for using a loading bay then you end by saying the did'nt actually load/unload anything. Although you may have a legit case to appeal, did you explain your 'situation' to the LA? If not, how are they supposed to know that your 'item was not suitabley packaged'?

 

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Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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Surely, if the intention was to load goods then to stop in the area was legitimate, as has been said, there may be many reasons for the actual physical process of loading/unloading not to happen as OP says?

 

I have experienced similar situations, although not ticketed, when stopped in a permited area to unload, only to have the delivery turned away before actual unloading commenced? Have I then commiitted an offence? I have a delivery note to the address which is on the permitted bay Maybe having a 45 ft trailor helps !

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This was explained but I was informed that goods had to enter or leave the vehicle not to contavene the regulations.

 

they either lied about that or were mistaken i.e they don't know the regs. either way thats naughty stuff from them. G&M's point point in a follow on post is relevant though.

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  • 1 month later...

Thanks to all who have given advice on my situation and can now advise that the situation has now been resolved with the withdrawl of the PCN for using the loading bay with a commercial vehicle.

However in a letter to me Enfield Council has stated that my circumstances as I've outlined in my previous post does not constitute loading. They define loading as " The Goods Vehicle Loading bay is for commercial vehicles only to enable them to load/unload to make collection and deliveries. This is shown by the information plate at the roadside in addition the words "LOADING ONLY" are painted on the carriageway. I would advise you that the circumstances you have described in your Representations do not constitute loading. Loading is when a vehicle stops (within a 20 minute period) to load or unload bulky or heavy goods. The "goods" must be of a type that cannot be easily carried by one person in one trip; if they can you should park legally and carry them to the premises".

I also pointed out that all Enfield pay and display parking lots have from May 2010 had the height reduced to 1.9m which means my small van cannot enter as the height is 1.95m so where am I suppose to park and facilities such as the recycling dump for example they have banned the entrance of all vehicles except passenger vehicles from using their facilities.

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they 'missed out' the part that it is in the intention to load/unload that counts.

For reasons already explained goods do not actually have to be moved. Whoever (at the council ?) told you that they did was lying or is just a numbskull.

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they 'missed out' the part that it is in the intention to load/unload that counts.

For reasons already explained goods do not actually have to be moved. Whoever (at the council ?) told you that they did was lying or is just a numbskull.

 

This case supports your point.

 

http://keycases.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/docs/NORRELL.pdf

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Nice find. thanks for that.

 

the regs are very clear "for THE PURPOSE of loading or unloading goods"

 

seems councils don't know the regs that well eh ?

 

 

why did the adjudicator drag in 'attending' ? ?

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Supporting my claim were a number of cases heard in court of a similiar nature to mine, all of which were found in favour of the vehicle driver. It seems that the councils especially those within greater London have total delight in rewriting the law to suit themselves. They didn't takekindly when I pointed out that their reference book was some 15 years out of date although a newer edition was available which they chose not to use.

Oh well, it's the joys of the council giving the motorist a hard time.

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where is that in the parking regs ?

 

S.15 Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 so far as is relevant provides as follows:-

“(3) A person shall not be convicted of an offence under this section with respect to a vehicle if he proves to the satisfaction of the court that the vehicle was parked -

…(d) for the purpose of loading or unloading goods, and –

(i) the loading or unloading of the vehicle could not have been satisfactorily performed had it not been so parked: and

(ii) the vehicle was not left unattended at any time while it was so parked.

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S.15 Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 so far as is relevant provides as follows:-

(ii) the vehicle was not left unattended at any time while it was so parked.

 

So in theory to legally load or unload you would need two people one to attend the vehicle and one to deliver the goods?

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So in theory to legally load or unload you would need two people one to attend the vehicle and one to deliver the goods?

 

Yes in theory.

 

I do recall reading another adjudication case (don't recall which one) where the adjudicator as an aside ridiculed the council's strict interpretation of "unattended" saying their interpretation was unreasonable considering that most couriers etc work alone and that a vehicle is not necssarily unattended simply because no one remains with the vehicle and that it is possible to keep watch or be responsible for the vehicle while visiting nearby premises.

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So in theory to legally load or unload you would need two people one to attend the vehicle and one to deliver the goods?

 

Only if you are parked on the footway, the thread has gone slightly off topic. The attended rule only applies if you are parked in London on the footway which in most circumstances is not required unless you are unloading something very heavy or such like, parking on the footway for convenience io unload is not permitted.

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So its not in the parking regs then.

 

As I said you have to wonder why the adjudicator dragged this in.

 

Is the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 even an enabling Act in the TRO ?

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So its not in the parking regs then.

 

As I said you have to wonder why the adjudicator dragged this in.

 

Is the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 even an enabling Act in the TRO ?

 

As I said.....did you bother reading the case quoted?? The adjudicator 'dragged it in' because a) the vehicle in question was on the footway b) it was unattended and c) the statute quoted is the legislation that governs footway parking (in London). Legislation does not need to be in a TRO if it is enabled by statute such as footway parking, drop kerbs,bus stop clearways etc.

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