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BearBalls

Hutchinson / HFO Services / Roxburghe alleged debt - advice sought...

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Hi guys,

 

There are a lot of threads on this site already dedicated to Roxburghe (RB) / HFO Services (HFOS) and Hutchinson 3G (H3G) but I would like to bring to attention my own case as I have a few issues that I hope to seek advice for (... and apologies if you guys are bored to your back teeth with more of the same recurring themes :( ).

 

My experience with HFOS and RB has been distressing and upsetting. They appear to use deceitful and dishonest tactics to bully their victims into submission and I am determined not to let them win. I have no knowledge of the alleged "debt" for which they are attempting to recover as I closed my account with H3G with a zero balance back in 2004.

 

Background details (pieced together from recollection and the very little written correspondence I have had with the trio of aforementioned companies):

 

  • 24 July 2003
    : Contract with Hutchinson 3G for a mobile phone handset and monthly tariff underwritten for £38.00 per month

  • 28 December 2003
    : Due to extremely poor reception and quality of service (phone call drop-outs, SMS messages not being sent / received) I cancelled the contract via a telephone call. The service centre employee was happy to oblige under these particular circumstances. No written confirmation given. No further written correspondence from H3G (including bills)

  • March 2004
    : H3G informed me of an outstanding balance of £49.84 from November 2003

  • 30 March 2004
    : Final balance paid to H3G

  • 09 July 2008
    : I received two letters from HFOS titled "Notice of Transfer" and "Notice of Assignement of Debt". The letters stated that the debt was assigned by H3G on 31 July 2007 for the amount of £173.20. The signees were 'D Hashan' ("Telecoms Team") and 'Jane Parker' (Manager, "Telecoms Team"). The Assignment letter claimed to include a letter from H3G stating that the debt had been assigned. There was no such letter included in either items of post.

  • 01 August 2008
    : I responded to Jane Parker expressing my surprise. I stated that to my knowledge there was no outstanding balance with H3G. I also noted that there was no letter of assignment from H3G included in their correspondence. I received no further mail from HFOS.

  • 24 November 2009
    : I received a letter from Jonathan Stock at RB stating that the debt had been passed to them by H3G (not HFOS?) and the amount to be recovered was £298.21 (!)

  • 27 November 2009
    : Feeling empowered by various forums (possibly this site) I found a template letter stating that I do not acknowledge the debt and require documentary evidence that the debt exists. I made the schoolboy mistake of signing the letter...

  • December 2009
    : RB responded with a compliment note (no letter or explanation, not signed or dated) stapled to a printout of a screenshot of the H3G accounts software with what appeared to be a ledger of my account with H3G. This ledger showed that H3G continued to bill me for 4 months after the account closure. A balance of £163.20 is visible on 28 May 2004 and this is flattened with an adjustment on 6 June 2007 (possibly the sale of debt to HFOS). As this screenshot in no way constituted proof of an outstanding debt I chose not to humour them further and to get on with my life.

  • Oct 09 - Sept 10
    : RB continue to send SMS messages to my personal phone and leave voicemails from random mobile numbers pretending to be solicitors and requiring urgent response. Solicitors do not work like this. I ignore them.

  • 25 October 2010
    : I received a letter from Nick Krauspe of RB stating that I agreed to make a payment to them as part of a plan to settle my debt. They state this agreement is legally binding and as I have failed to make a prompt payment they will charge me £12.50 for the pleasure. The letter also mentions HFO CAPITAL LIMITED for the first time?
    I am HIGHLY concerned about this letter as it would appear that SOMEONE has entered me into a CCA without my knowledge or consent (possibly by lifting my signature from previous correspondence?). If this was the case would it reset the timer on the "debt" to avoid being Statute-Barred? Should I send a letter to RB by special delivery demanding to see proof of this "agreement" such that I can forensically analyse the content (if it exists) and thus be in a position to take legal action?

 

I have signed up to CreditExpert to check my credit report and hope to complete this in the coming days.

 

I will attach censored versions of all the correspondence I have had in the next posts in the hope that you can give me the confidence and empowerment to fight these intolerable, abusive, dishonest scalliwags (!). If you can help then I will happily donate the entire alleged debt amount to CAG (and even if you don't I may well dig deep as you give many others the courage to speak up and fight their cases).

 

Many thanks in advance.

Edited by BearBalls
Corrected some background details

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(Please see my next post(s) for document attachments)

Edited by BearBalls
Attachments posted later in thread

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Hello BB

 

I would say that yes, you want to see this 'agreement' they claim you entered into. SAR them for hard copies of all info held on their internal system of records that relates directly to your personal subject data. Fee is £10, they then have 40 days to comply.

 

If you CCA them, they could make a copy of the 'agreement' up (reconstituted/reconstructed) and then declare that they have complied with your CCA request!

 

I hope that will help you and add to your strength.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

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This is quite clearly now statute barred anyway.

 

If they have sent you documentary evidence that proves your last payment was in March 04, then they are stuffed; you say 3G billed you for another four months – this takes you to July or August 2004, so that’s still SB. Clearly you have not acknowledged this debt.

 

The letter about having an agreement to pay them is pure b*llocks. And they know it. They are trying it on (no doubt, when you complain, they will claim 'admin error').

 

While you can demand proof from them that you entered an agreement, it remains SB; here’s a thread similar to yours.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?281009-Graham-White/page2


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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And don’t forget your complaints to the OFT and TS. This kind of communication claiming a LEGAL contract has been entered when it clearly has not is very serious – I would suggest it’s almost a police matter, but they wouldn’t, frankly, give a toss.


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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It'll be interesting to see these documents but I'm more concerned about the letter dated 25/01/10 where they claim you entered into an arrangement to pay the debt.

 

I'd be sending an SAR to H3G to confirm everything on record and then write a letter to HFO (whichever one has written to you recently) stating that you are placing the account in dispute and request that they suspend whatever collection activity they claim they have the right to (until such a time the original creditor furnishes you with information that allows you to respond to their demand for repayment on an equal footing.)

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Hi

 

Scan your letters and save as PDF files then attach or use Photobucket - link to tutorial below:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?115-How-to-open-a-PhotoBucket-account-and-use-it-to-post-pictures-on-the-Consumer-Action-Group


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Good simple SAR letter to use, put crosses through signature and send recorded with a £10 Postal Order to the Data Controller at 3G

 

[your address]

 

[their address]

 

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Sir/Madam

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time.

Please note that I require disclosure of any personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you.

The Subject Access is not limited to my transaction history and it is not limited merely to 6 years of historical information.

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,


At your Service

 

Please Double click the Star and leave a message if I have helped you

 

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HFO do not have proper assignments, we have been aware of 'fabricated' assignments using the wrong logos. Assignment letters should come from the Original Creditor and not from the assignee....

 

When will HFO learn (or be closed down due to poor practices)?

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Guys, thanks a lot for your prompt feedback. I will set about to do the following:

 

  1. Send SAR request to H3G
  2. Send SAR request to RB
  3. Send letter to RB disputing the debt until they provide evidence that H3G assigned it (should I highlight the fact that this "debt" should be SB now?)

Please find attached the initial correspondence from / to HFOS.

 

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Assignment letters should come from the Original Creditor and not from the assignee....

 

I'm afraid that you are wrong on this point. The notice of assignment can come from either party. However, the debtor is entitled, as a matter of law, to have sight of the document of assignment so as to be satisfied that it is valid and that the assignee can give him good discharge. Van Lynn Developments Ltd v Pelias Construction Co Ltd [1968] 3 ALL ER 824

 

bearballs,

 

If you already have this information from h3g that there is a zero balance and, as donkeyb says above, it is anyway more than 6 years ago you really do have nothing to worry about.

Edited by nicklea

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Thanks Nicklea - see the ledger attachment above; there was a balance of £163.20 as of May 2004 (which had been aggregated in error by H3G after the account had agreed to have been closed). This balance was adjusted in June 2007 by what appears to be the sale of the the balance to HFOS / HFOC / RB. I assume this adjustment would not count towards the SB status?

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No need to SAR Roxies just the OC (3G)

 

Just send 'Prove it' letter, don't mention SB see what they come back with.


At your Service

 

Please Double click the Star and leave a message if I have helped you

 

Please support CAG and they will support you.

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Thanks Coledawg. I shall commence with:

 

  1. SAR request to H3G
  2. Letter to RB requesting evidence of original assignment from H3G
  3. Letter to RB disputing the "agreement" whilst maintaining no knowledge of "debt"

 

... I don't mind stringing this out as long as I am legally in the clear; I want to give them enough rope to hang themselves with then I can hand this over to whatever authorities will take an interest!

 

Cheers peeps.

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Thanks Nicklea - see the ledger attachment above; there was a balance of £163.20 as of May 2004 (which had been aggregated in error by H3G after the account had agreed to have been closed). This balance was adjusted in June 2007 by what appears to be the sale of the the balance to HFOS / HFOC / RB. I assume this adjustment would not count towards the SB status?

 

SB: from the date of last payment or written acknowledgement of the debt (prescribed within statute as the last date of the "cause of action")

 

The amount was "reset" to "0" owing to it being "charged off" by H3G. It's nothing to be concerned about; I suspect that H3G wrote off the balance to either claim insurance on the non-payment or write it off for tax purposes.

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Their own evidence shows it is SB. Send the prove it (probably followed later by SB), make sure they are not reporting on your credit file, and report that ‘legal obligation’ letter to the OFT and TS.

Edited by DonkeyB

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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At your Service

 

Please Double click the Star and leave a message if I have helped you

 

Please support CAG and they will support you.

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Thanks guys.

 

I will be sending both the refute letter to RB and the SAR to H3G tomorrow.

 

For reference and for any others affected by similar matters, I have received 8 calls from RB in the last month. The number is always a mobile and starts 0783766xxx. I have only ever picked up on one occasion. On this occasion the caller claimed to be a solicitor working for RB.

 

I have also received numerous text messages with the following content:

 

From: sms
roxburghe.sms.com

URGENT -
please call Roxburghe on 01932332001 quoting ref:

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@coledog: Yes I have already sent the prove it letter - see attachment "20091127.Letter_NACK_Debt.pdf" in previous post. The response was pretty weak; a "with compliments" note stapled to a screenshot of a ledger (also above).

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... And also, if anyone is interested, despite the threats from HFOS / RB about my credit report potentially being decimated by this matter, I have subsequently checked and there is no sign of any black marks / outstanding debts / missed payments on my file.

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Even that text is a misleading communication, as it does not says what the message is about. Worth another complaint to the OFT... you won’t get a proper response, but it will go on the already massive HFO/Roxburghe pile.


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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This will not be on your credit file unless the original creditor put it there, it cannot be added by a DCA. If it was there, it could have dropped off by now anyway.


At your Service

 

Please Double click the Star and leave a message if I have helped you

 

Please support CAG and they will support you.

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Indeed, CD – even more evidence that it’s SB!


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Any news, bearballs?


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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