Bailiff attending for his fees only

[Pepsisam]

I am hoping someone can help me urgently as I am so unsure of how to proceed regarding a bailiff from Rundle and Co attending my property. I have never posted before but am in a great need for information.

Ok so the sorry saga is: we got totally bogged down with unpaid council tax and our council passed the bills out to bailiffs for collection. We had over the past year paid off the amount owing including fees all but £87.38.

In september we thought we had done a balance transfer of £40.00 and had no idea until 22/10/10 when the bailiff arrived that this had not actually gone through the system. When he arrived I queried the balance as it had now jumped to £279.38 and he told me it could have been a mistake at the office and got back in his car while he tried to contact them. 20 mins later he came back and said he could not speak with the office and he would telephone me on Monday to explain the balance.

When he called on Monday he said this was for fees that had been applied to the account, £42.00 levy fee and £150.00 attendance fee - he did not tell me this on Friday. I asked for a breakdown of the fees applied and this came through yesterday and £150.00 was missing although on the automated payment system it has been applied.

I rang the bayliff today and advised him that he can't charge me a second attendance fee as had already charged me this fee on 26/03 and when he came of Fri he never removed any goods and therefore an illegal charge. He got the hump and refused to discuss any further.

He has arrived at the door tonight and has told me that if I do not pay £279.38 in 7 days he will remove the car. However, the car he leived on was not on the property on 22/10/10 as per the date of his notice of seizure, nor was this given to me on this day. He has said he saw my partner driving it as he passed him leaving our property.

I paid the original £87.38 25/10/10 so my question is, can the car be removed for bailiff fees only? Fees that seems to be illegal as they were not able to be completed 22/10/10 as the notice states? Is he right to be charging two levy fees and two attendance charges??

Please please help because I am so worried that my partner and I will now not be able to get to work and all our other debts will spiral out of control.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated

Thank you

[hallowitch]

hi welcome to CAG

 

no the bailiff cant levy twice for the same debt did they previously levy goods before the car

 

when you pay a bailiff firm they take there fees first before they pay the balance to the council so there could be outstanding council tax on your account

 

have you had a proper breakdown of fees from the bailiff firm

do you know how much the liability order was

do you know how much you have paid

[Pepsisam]

Morning Hallowitch, thank you for responding. We have had no dispute over the amount owed to the bailiff till last week. He attended our property and spoke to me at the door, he tried to say that the amount owed was £279.83 but I queried this and he went to speak with the office, came back and said he couldn't get through and he did not know what the amount was made up of.

Last night he came with a van and left a seizure of goods dated last friday with my partners car listed. My partners car wasnt even here!! My partner question this and he said he recognised him on the road (although he has never seen him) and listed it then - can this be true. He also said he has been passing by the house on numerous occasions and "watching" us.

He previously leived at the property we lived in before (we have since moved) but my partner still owns this property so would the original levy still stand?

[hallowitch]

He previously levied at the property we lived in before (we have since moved) but my partner still owns this property so would the original levy still stand? This levy still stand stands do you still have a copy of it

send for a breakdown of charges by recorded delivery letter and e-mail

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme bailiff Co

bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account. Can you please provide me with a Breakdown of the charges including Computer Screenshot.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer

[fork-it]

Acme bailiff co. groovy name, ACME from Wile E Coyote, is a pun on A Company that Makes Everything.

 

Suggest changing it to ABTE Bailiffs Ltd. ABTE - A Bailiff that Takes Everything.

[Pepsisam]

Yes I still have a copy of it. I also have a breakdown of charges but £150.00 of the £192.00 he is chasing is not listed on it.

Will he come and take our car? Its not worth the outstanding balance?

[fork-it]

JBW Enforcement Ltd v City of Westminster, the Judge confirmed that if payment is "tendered before seizure" that the bailiff company CANNOT issue civil proceedings against the debtor

[Pepsisam]

He has leived my partners car but it wasn't here when he was last friday? Can he do that if he has been "watching" us?

[fork-it]

I have serious doubt the fees the bailiff is claiming are lawful anyway.

 

The law prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid council tax is the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and only provides £24.50 for a first visit

[wonkeydonkey]

Do follow the advice given by hallowitch for it has been know for bailiffs to :lie::lie: about their fees and this coupled with their ability to :juggle: fact into fiction needs to be questioned.

 

It would pay you to contact the Council first thing on Monday morning and ask:

1.what was the amount owed prior to passing to the Bailiff?

2.what date the account was passed to the Bailiff?

3. what if anything is still deemed to be owed to them?

 

I suspect you will find a considerable amount of charges have been illegally applied to your account. Come back when you have more info and you will get all the help you need to move this forward.

[hallowitch]

I asked for a Breakdown of the fees applied and this came through yesterday

 

can you put the breakdown up including dates fees were charged

do you know why this balance transfer payment did not go through was it a mistake on your part or was it the bailiff firm

do you always pay by balance transfer

did you make a payment in October would this payment have cleared the balance if September's payment had gone through (hope you understood that)

do you have a scanner can you scan both notice of seizures and send them to the council in an e-mail

I personally cant see the bailiff removing your car as he has previously levied on goods and he knows he cant levy twice (and charge a levy fee) for the same debt having said that a formal complaint will need to be sent to be sent to the council and the bailiff firm about this(with a bit more info we can help you write this) by e-mail ASAP and by recorded delivery letter

[Pepsisam]

Thank you for all your help.

 

When bailiff came 22/10 he left a "attendance notice the clearance of goods" which quoted £279.38, as we only owed £87.38 I queried the £192.00 difference, he dated this letter and its timed at 17:25.

We asked for a breakdown which we got 28/10 and it says:

Jan 26, 2009 - Debt - £554.38

Feb 3, 2009 - Visit Fee 1 - £24.50

Feb 4, 2009 - Visit Fee 2 - £18.00

Mar 26, 2009 - Levy Fee - £42.00

Mar 26, 2009 - Attendance/Van - £150.00

Sept 19, 2009 - Payment by C/C - £1.88

Oct 27, 2009 - Payment by C/C - £1.88

Nov 17, 2009 - Payment by C/C - £2.00

Jan 30, 2010 - Payment by C/C - £1.88

Oct 25, 2010 - Levy Fee - £42.00

 

On this breakdown £150.00 is missing and when we asked bailiff 29/10 he said it was an attendance fee..... On 25/10 at 06:00 we paid £87.38 (which it said we owed on automated payment line, although it did say it would not include recent bailiff fees) by balance transfer which would have been in the account within 2 hours

He turned up 29/10 with a "notice of seizure of goods and inventory" it is dated 22/10 and lists my partners car but he was not here, nor was his car. I told my partner that they would have passed each other on the road as the bailiff left minutes before he arrived on 22/10. Bailiff has threatened to be back in 5/7 days to get car.

We dont dispute any of the amount owed just this last 192.00 at it had seemed to be applied before he knocked the door. We could have paid £87.38 at the door but was not given this chance as it was already £279.38 which we didnt have.

Yes payment in october would have cleared what we owed in september as we cleared the balance of the account (all but these new charges).

Thank you again for the help

[hallowitch]

Jan 26, 2009 - Debt - £554.38

Feb 3, 2009 - Visit Fee 1 - £24.50

Feb 4, 2009 - Visit Fee 2 - £18.00

Mar 26, 2009 - levy Fee - £42.00

Mar 26, 2009 - Attendance/Van - £150.00

 

I have asked ploddertom to look in on this the way i see it is that the bailiff has abandoned this levy as no goods were removed (can you list the goods he levied march 26)

Sept 19, 2009 - Payment by C/C - £1.88

Oct 27, 2009 - Payment by C/C - £1.88

Nov 17, 2009 - Payment by C/C - £2.00

Jan 30, 2010 - Payment by C/C - £1.88

 

Oct 25, 2010 - levy Fee - £42.00

 

 

When a bailiff Levy's on goods the bailiff or the bailiff firm usually enter into a payment agreement if this agreement is broken they charge you a van fee (the van fee cant be charged on the same day as the levy fee ) they should then demand the remainder of the debt in full including fees

If the debtor cant pay in full they should either remove the goods previously levied or enter into another payment agreement

 

your bailiff levied goods in March 09 as no payment were made and the bailiff did not remove goods this would be seen as the bailiff abandoning the levy

and the levy fee/van fee

 

payments were made between September 09 and January 010

 

then no further contact between January 010 and September 010 when you made this payment how much had you paid (not including payment fees)

 

Do you know if the bailiff firm still held this debt between march 09 and September 09

and between January 010 September 010

Edited November 1, 2010 by hallowitch

[Pepsisam]

Hi Hallowitch

He originally levied on some plant pots, a door bell and external lamp.

We have paid every month except Sept when there was a mix up with the bank, the reason the C/C charges stopped was because we started paying by postal order, and then by bank transfer to try and avoid all the extra charges.

We don't think the bailiff came in March anyhows, because the items he is describing in the original levy were not at the property when we lived there, it wasn't until my partners ex-wife moved in that these items were outside the front of the property. If the bailiff has abondaned the levy should the fee not be cancelled as well? Or should it still be paid?

Can he levy on a car that wasn't at the property the day the levy is dated?

Thank you for your help

[hallowitch]

I know your greatest worry is the car

 

but believe me before this day/night is out i will have a letter sorted for you and this bailiff will not be a happy bunny and would not dare lift your car

 

the bailiff didn't abandon his levy (was under the assumption that you were not paying sorry)regardless of when where this levy was done it is a joke along with the van fee these fees are unlawful and legally your liability was satisfied the minute you payed the amount of the liability order and the 1st/2nd visit fees

He cannot levy twice for the same debt he cannot levy for his fees

 

can you tell me how much you had paid up until you missed the September payment

how much did you pay in October

how was your payment arrangement made did he come to the house /over the phone

did he post the levy through the letterbox when you were out (new house /old house)

 

 

 

 

just hang in there with me and ploddertom answer any questions that we have and we will sort you out

[fork-it]

He originally levied on some plant pots, a door bell and external lamp.

 

The bailiff is vexatious and the fee charged for this levy can be disregarded.

 

A few years ago, a bailiff levied on an old BBQ and garden tools, but the levy failed to stand and fee was recovered because the goods were an unrealistic pre-estimate of the value of the levy fee charged.

[Pepsisam]

Thank you again for your help, you are very kind to give your time to me.

We have so far paid £796.52 for a council bill that was originally £554.38. Up to end of August we had paid £709.14 with the final payment of £87.38 made 25/10/10.But as you know since then another £192.00 has been added making the total amount £988.52. Our arrangement was made over the phone, I believe we agreed to pay £75.00 (which incorporated another bill for a different tax year) per month and only one month "broke" the agreement and paid £50 because my partner was out of work and we had another big bill to pay, but this was agreed with the bailiff beforehand. Neither times did he post the levy if this is the same as the seizure of goods and inventory - both times we have had to request it, back in March when we asked about it and this time when we disputed the charges were valid, we have never had it the same day always after the event

[ploddertom]

Are they still going ahead with telling you to pay the extra £192?

 

PT

[Pepsisam]

Hi PT, yes they are still insisting we owe £192.00. My partner spoke to the office today and she would not speak with him or give him an email address. Nor confirm the court when bailiff (dont think I can put his name) was certificated. I have checked online and he is not listed - another bit of info gathered from this fab site. We are being re-directed to the bailiff but really do not want to speak with him. Council were not help either, kept saying it was in the hands of the bailiff and to speak with them etc. Round and round in circles we go. Thank you for your help

[hallowitch]

he could still be certificated you should phone the ministry of justice in the morning to find out(there is a number on here but i don't want to open another window as i got a few open and one of them your letter

 

Is it the same bailiff that signed both walking possession agreements

[Pepsisam]

Thanks Hallowitch, I have seen the number so I will give it a call tomorrow. I have checked both notice of seizure of goods and although they are scribbled they look very similar. I am not sure if I can put the name on her, also all letters we have received state the same person who attended

[Pepsisam]

Hi I thought I had replied but its not posted when i refresh, brain and fingers not working! Sorry - yes although they are scribbles the signitures look the similar. I have seen the number so I will give it a call tomorrow

[ploddertom]

OK I think I'm a little clearer now. Do you know if the Council pay the Bailiff first before they allocate any payments to your CT Account? If the Council are saying your account is now clear then the Bailiff is trying to enforce solely for his fees - not allowed, he would have to take you through the Small Claims Court for this, many are reluctant to do this as they have to swear the Fees are correct.

 

My take on the fees you have been charged are that the bailiff only originally levied on your goods in order to make a financial gain for himself and his Company - not being cheeky here but the levied goods would only make £10/£20 at auction if removed for sale. A correctly carried out seizure and subsequent removal must provide enough to:

1 - cover the Bailiffs fees

2 - cover the removal and/or storage costs

3 - cover the Auctioneers fees

4 - cover the costs of the auction

5 - pay a proportion of the debt

 

In your case the levy fee and any associated costs should therefore be removed. As they have not done this they believe the levy to be valid but have incorrectly now carried out a "supposed" 2nd levy for the same debt which is a big no no. Yet again this cost and others associated with it must be removed. If and when a levy is made a Notice of Seizure must be left at the time - not a week later. The "supposed" 2nd levy is along the same lines of the Bailiff peering through the window - yet again not allowed.

 

The Card Fees you have paid - ask the Bailiffs to produce the CT Reg that allows them to charge these. There is no such thing so you should also ask for these back.

 

As for the Council, they need reminding that the Bailiff is their agent so anything he does or not do is their responsibility also. They may tell you to deal with the Bailiff as that is what is written on their script. You need to elevate this to a higher authority - start at the Chief Executive. Put all your concerns into a letter and head it Formal Complaint. get your local Councillor involved - if they refuse or drag their heels escalate to the Leader of the Council and whoever at the Council is head of their Party.

 

As you are aggrieved by the levy(s) made you can escalate this to a Regulation 46 Complaint. You write to the Council advising you are aggrieved by the Bailiffs levy(s) and you will be filing a Complaint at the Magistrates Court for them to answer the Charge(s) - I've got a letter somewhere for this if necessary.

 

Hope this helps.

 

PT

[Pepsisam]

Thank you for replying PT and spending time on helping me with this issue. I do not know how the debt is paid between the bailiff and the council but I will ring first thing in the morning and check to see if they have a balance outstanding - I suspect they wont. You have been a great help and I must say your advise and information has helped quash my worry. When we spoke to Bailiff office today, we asked for an email address but they have said they do not give out emails and everything has to be posted. I will be on the case of this again tomorrow, contacting all and sundry, in letter form, telephone and email. Your help has made me more confident to fight this injustice. THANK YOU MUCHLY

[ploddertom]

When we spoke to Bailiff office today, we asked for an email address but they have said they do not give out emails and everything has to be posted. I will be on the case of this again tomorrow, contacting all and sundry, in letter form, telephone and email. Your help has made me more confident to fight this injustice. THANK YOU MUCHLY

 

email:

[email protected]

 

Whatever you send by email should also be posted using Royal Mail Signed For, any phone call should be recorded.

 

PT