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Short scenario.... Yesterday at the Midland hotel (Mcr) the loading bay was blocked with vehicles that shouldn't have been there, a CEO was on them and they had begun scattering, in the flick of an eye I saw there was a big enough spot for me in the P&D bays which I know I'm allowed to use for loading/unloading/deliveries, got the space and started unloading..

 

MCC Plod came over to me whilst I was lowering a cage of laundry on my tail-lift and asked what I was doing, to which I replied, "it's not rocket science pal!", how long will you be was his retort to which I replied, "45/60 minutes". He quickly developed an attitude problem and said I couldn't park there for that long, and I told him that I wasn't parking per say but as he could see unloading, he went on that there was a loading bay behind me to which he wasn't grateful for being reminded was blocked with vehicles that shouldn't be there and that I knew I was allowed to load/unload in the bays. I went on to tell him that I was taking the cage that I had just unloaded to the Chef's office and that the contents would have to be checked and agreed and then the collection of soiled from a different part of the building would also have to be checked and agreed and then paperwork issued and signed off, all of this is available as evidence..

 

After this I continued to move towards the delivery entrance and he started again, that I couldn't leave THAT, THERE for upto an hour. Again, I pointed out that the loading bay was blocked with vehicles that shouldn't be there and that I was allowed to use the P&D bays for loading and delivering... I told him 45/60... I was 51, as per digi/tacho print... I told him what I was doing, where I was doing it, where I was going.. He witnessed me unload and wheel a cage into the premises, but as suspected I came back to a PCN for 06 (no p&d ticket).. Those of you that know me will know that I drive a fully liveried 7.5t laundry truck!

 

I've taken photo's in situe and I'll scan the PCN in the next day or so and post up, for now just your thoughts please as this involves an old axe to grind with work as well as MCC..

 

Thanks in advance, Dave.. :-)

Edited by diskmandave

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Arrived 0840 (digi tacho)

 

Ob's 0842 - 0900

 

PCN 0900

 

Bays time limit 2 hours..

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Thanks Greeny..

 

I'll put the pic's & PCN up over the weekend, but the fact that I told the CEO exactly what I was doing and that he actually observed me unload goods into the building and his attitude towards me......?? Just some thoughts/ideas please.... Nice one about 20 min's though, ob's for 18!!! Thanks again! 8)

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oily truck driver and all I know has been learned within the

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PCN.......

 

img002.jpg

 

img003.jpg

 

I'll do the "in situe" vehicle pic's tomorrow or Saturday...

As previously stated just idea's for informal challenge and maybe complaint against CEO for now please..

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Advice is offered freely, without liability and without prejudice.

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I do not profess to be in any way legally trained, I am a big

oily truck driver and all I know has been learned within the

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FAQ's

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I agree that obs were 18 minutes, so shot in the foot anyway. You are allowed 20 mins for your size/type of vehicle at the end of which you must be seen again to be loading or unloading. The CEO has no idea if you did because they only waited 18 minutes. You could have arrived back at 19 minutes in which case there is no offence. He/she will never know.

 

Just on the obs alone the ticket is invalid.

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I would add, that IFAIK unless there are specific 'no loading' restrictions for the parking bays, then the above will be correct. Obvuiously if there is a 'no loading' restriction, then that would be different. And from a quick browse on google street view, there is no loading restrictions as such for the parking bays. I do not know how current those pics or signs are.

 

As I read it, you have stopped in a parking bay and have been actively loading/unloading and thus the penalty is incorrect.

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I would add, that IFAIK unless there are specific 'no loading' restrictions for the parking bays, then the above will be correct. Obvuiously if there is a 'no loading' restriction, then that would be different. And from a quick browse on google street view, there is no loading restrictions as such for the parking bays. I do not know how current those pics or signs are.

 

As I read it, you have stopped in a parking bay and have been actively loading/unloading and thus the penalty is incorrect.

 

How can you possibly know the restriction for the bay without reading the TRO? As I have alreay stated unless in a Loading bay there is usually a time limit to the loading, you cannot unload all day just because its a 'bay'. AFAIK MCC gives 15 mins loading in P&Ds so the contravention is correct if thats the case.

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No comment on the PCN ?

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I do not profess to be in any way legally trained, I am a big

oily truck driver and all I know has been learned within the

Consumer Action Group.

 

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I spoke to a different red hat plod at the Midland this morning who told me that delivery vehicles are NOT allowed to use the P&D bays unless they buy a ticket, he had c**t written all over his forhead but was crystal clear that all vehicles had 5 minutes to buy a ticket and that was that. MORON!

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Advice is offered freely, without liability and without prejudice.

If in any doubt professional legal advice should be sought.

 

I do not profess to be in any way legally trained, I am a big

oily truck driver and all I know has been learned within the

Consumer Action Group.

 

FAQ's

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

 

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Here are the "vehicle in situe" pictures... The reg plate is blanked, otherwise, as is...

 

Photo003-1.jpg

... Directly behind my truck is the so called loading bay!! ^^^^^^^^

 

Photo004.jpg

.

Photo006.jpg

.

Photo005-1.jpg

....^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ All of these are service providers, neither loading or unloading, just parked with their driver in the hotel providing their service, a dry cleaner, a plumber and the vending company filling machines..

Photo008.jpg

 

I'll ask for the TRO on Monday and prob's do a standard informal representation with a day to go by recorded post... Appreciate comments please.....:-)

Edited by diskmandave

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Advice is offered freely, without liability and without prejudice.

If in any doubt professional legal advice should be sought.

 

I do not profess to be in any way legally trained, I am a big

oily truck driver and all I know has been learned within the

Consumer Action Group.

 

FAQ's

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

 

Trying to stop smoking?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/give-up-smoking-here/

 

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This is from MCC website. My bold:

 

There is an exemption in some Traffic Orders to allow vehicles to stop to load or unload. This is when goods are taken to or from a vehicle that has stopped - often on single or double yellow lines. However, use of a vehicle must be necessary, and while you can load or unload for as long as it takes, your vehicle must be moved immediately after you have finished loading or unloading.

 

Loading or unloading is observed. A Civil Enforcement Officer may issue a parking ticket, if the Civil Enforcement Officer feels that the loading or unloading is not reasonable. This will be done in accordance with the Traffic Order exemption, ie the items being loaded/unloaded cannot be classifed as goods.

 

Traffic order is key!

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Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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TRO requested in writing over the weekend...

 

In the meantime I've sent an informal challenge based on the FTA's compliance guideance for Penalty Charge Notices.. Which I've scanned and posted below...

 

img007-1.jpg

 

Comments?

If my post was helpful don't forget to click the star!

Advice is offered freely, without liability and without prejudice.

If in any doubt professional legal advice should be sought.

 

I do not profess to be in any way legally trained, I am a big

oily truck driver and all I know has been learned within the

Consumer Action Group.

 

FAQ's

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

 

Trying to stop smoking?

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  • 2 months later...

Just a small update to close this...

 

I've had NO correspondence from Manchester City Council AT ALL.. They've NOT complied with

my request for information (FoIA) re the TRO for the bays, and they've NOT responded in writing to

my challenge of the PCN.

 

I've telephoned Parking Services THREE times now asking why no reply and each time I've been told

that the PCN has been cancelled along with the GHOST ticket created by the CEO 2 minutes after the

issue of the actual PCN, each time I've also been told that a duplicate cancellation letter would be sent..

 

So I'm guessing now that MANCHESTER CITY COUNCIL has absolutely no intention of playing the

game by the rules and is a very sore loser, which IMHO makes ME better than them.

 

Photo004.jpg

 

That maintains my 100% record against Manchester City Council!!

 

manchester-city-council-customer-service-large.gif

^^MANCHESTER CITY COUNCIL CUSTOMER SERVICES DEPARTMENT^^

If my post was helpful don't forget to click the star!

Advice is offered freely, without liability and without prejudice.

If in any doubt professional legal advice should be sought.

 

I do not profess to be in any way legally trained, I am a big

oily truck driver and all I know has been learned within the

Consumer Action Group.

 

FAQ's

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

 

Trying to stop smoking?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/give-up-smoking-here/

 

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As a matter of interest, did the vehicles occupying the loading bays get PCN's?

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

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No. None of them did... It's all about revenue generation...

 

One of the friendly Red Hats has told me that they are directed in by CCTV

and instructed what to ticket, regardless of legality..

If my post was helpful don't forget to click the star!

Advice is offered freely, without liability and without prejudice.

If in any doubt professional legal advice should be sought.

 

I do not profess to be in any way legally trained, I am a big

oily truck driver and all I know has been learned within the

Consumer Action Group.

 

FAQ's

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

 

Trying to stop smoking?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/give-up-smoking-here/

 

A dummies guide to the forums

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No. None of them did... It's all about revenue generation...

 

One of the friendly Red Hats has told me that they are directed in by CCTV

and instructed what to ticket, regardless of legality..

 

I would suggest that by 'allowing' vehicles to 'park' in the un-loading bays thus forcing the likes of you to use the PD bays to un-load would provide a subject of complaint to the LA. I don't see how they can legitimately issue PCNs to vehicles having to use bays other than for the use of loading when the designated loading bay is occupied by 'illegally' parked vehicles which do not have PCNs. Maybe the local media would show an interest in this.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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No. None of them did... It's all about revenue generation...

 

One of the friendly Red Hats has told me that they are directed in by CCTV

and instructed what to ticket, regardless of legality..

 

so what is the 'reason to believe' of the CEO who issues the PCN.

clearly none at all as it is done under instruction.

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I would suggest that by 'allowing' vehicles to 'park' in the un-loading bays thus forcing the likes of you to use the PD bays to un-load would provide a subject of complaint to the LA. I don't see how they can legitimately issue PCNs to vehicles having to use bays other than for the use of loading when the designated loading bay is occupied by 'illegally' parked vehicles which do not have PCNs. Maybe the local media would show an interest in this.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

Thats if its true, letting someone off a £60 PCN for being in a loading bay to force people to pay a £1 to park doesn't really make any sense.

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Thats if its true, letting someone off a £60 PCN for being in a loading bay to force people to pay a £1 to park doesn't really make any sense.

 

Yes but is a goods vehicle the size of the OP's allowed to park in the PD bays in the first place? I would of thought that the bays are only big enough for cars. In any event, there is obviously something wrong here. Discrimination springs to mind.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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Yes but is a goods vehicle the size of the OP's allowed to park in the PD bays in the first place?

 

img007-1.jpg

If my post was helpful don't forget to click the star!

Advice is offered freely, without liability and without prejudice.

If in any doubt professional legal advice should be sought.

 

I do not profess to be in any way legally trained, I am a big

oily truck driver and all I know has been learned within the

Consumer Action Group.

 

FAQ's

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

 

Trying to stop smoking?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/give-up-smoking-here/

 

A dummies guide to the forums

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

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