Mr Lender / PDL Finance Ltd

[tripinit]

Hi All,

I'm a newbie to this forum in that I don't think I have posted anything before, although I have found the advice on here pretty useful in the past - so thank you.

I have multiple payday loans and I am successfully clearing most of them in the next couple of months. I have been doing this by effectively only paying them what I can afford and getting them to stop applying additional interest.

This is working / has already worked for three of these companies but I have a real problem with one of them who goes by the name of Mr Lender - they are part of PDL Finance.

 

I was due to pay them either £100 in order to rollover the loan or £500 to repay the loan in full (£400 being the original loan amount)on 20th October. My intention was to pay them slightly more than just the interest charges but not the whole amount. Unfortunately, one of the other creditors took out more money from my account than I was expecting (my own fault - I had misread that creditor's correspondence) and so when Mr Lender tried to take the money from my account the payment failed.

 

On the day the payment failed I had numerous telephone messages from Mr Lender, a couple of emails and numerous text messages. I didn't want to speak with them until I could see where the other payments had gone, and my online bank statement was not up to date as some of the other payments had gone out via debit card.

 

On the day after the due date, they repeatedly phoned my work, my mobile and home phone. Getting my voicemail each time, they then started calling random extension numbers at my work, until they eventually got through to my boss who called me to her extension to take the call - this was extremely embarrassing - especially as the two or three people that informed me at work that these guys had spoken to them all said that the people they spoke to were incredibly rude.

 

I spoke to Mr Lender and said I would write to them to suggest a payment plan in the next two days or so - their rep said that this was not acceptable and that I have to deal with them over the phone - she said she would put me through to someone who could help me . . . . when I spoke with the next representative, he started by saying that he would help in anyway possible; I said that I would pay on or before 19th November (i.e. 30 days after the original due date) in full - in other words the full £500. He said that I had to make a proper payment immediately and that this offer was not acceptable as, as he put it, "we are not a charity". He said if I didn't pay I would incur charges of at least £175 before 19th Nov. I said I thought that that was excessive and unfair, but that could he please put their position in writing. His response was that he would email me, and I said I wanted a letter, to which he said that they don't do that.

 

I should add that whilst their Ts&Cs make some mention of charges for late payment they definitely do not equate to £175 in a month!

 

I asked this representative repeatedly to put their position to me in a letter, and he kept saying that they would not do so. So I wrote to them stating my position, that I would happily pay a maximum of £512 (£12 being what I would perceive as being reasonable admin charges for the late payment), on 19th Nov.

 

They stopped calling me last week, but I have not received a written response from them yet.

However, the next thing I know is that I get a text message saying they are sending me a default sums in accordance with the consumer credit act 1974. I then got an email (not a letter) stating that in accordance with the CCA 1974 I owe them £570 - no OFT fact sheet was included, not even as a PDF.

 

So, sorry about the very lengthy post - but can anyone tell me:

a) Do I have a right to insist that they state their position and all correspondence in hardcopy form?

b) Are they allowed to call my work and guess at extension numbers - as there is no way they would have spoken to my colleagues in other departments otherwise!

c) Can they serve a default sums notice by email?

d) Should they not take a commercial view as I've used their service for months, and a cost of at least £100/month - if they add all these charges, then they loose the business

e) If I pay them the £512, can they actually chase for any additional sums that they think they can?

f) Am I missing anything - is there anything else I should be doing in terms of my dealings with them?

 

Thanks all for your help, and again sorry its such a lengthy post

[robjam1969]

And they wonder why they get themselves such a bad reputation!!

 

As for your questions

 

a) I am fairly certain that e-mail is acceptable, often a good way of dealing withese people and not having to talk to them.

b) No they are not. Report them to FOS and use their internal complaints proceedure

c) I wouldn't have thought so but not certain of this

d) They should but you can't force them.

e) They can but you can make it difficult for them.

 

I would also check your credit report to see if they have registered a default. Personally your offer would seem reasonable and I would stick to your guns. If they took you to court they would have some explaining to do. Just because they add charges doesn't mean you have to pay them.

[tripinit]

thanks robjam, your prompt response is much appreciated.

If anyone can answer the my points regarding whether they can really send a default notice by email, and whether or not I am correct in insisting they write to me in letter form I would appreciate it

Thanks very much

[Jamie Kingston]

email correspondance is an excepted method of reciving official paperwork... (in my opinion)

[tripinit]

Hi All

its time for me to provide an update on my dealings with Mr Lender.

Having heard nothing from Mr Lender following my letter dates 21st October 2010, in which I totally disputed their right to add any significant additional charges, and having received the aforementioned Default Notice I wrote to them again on 5th November 2010. In this letter I reiterated my offer of paying £512 - (£400 borrowed, £100 interest, £12 administrative charges for late payment) on 19th November 2010; I also requested their bank details.

This is the response I got:

 

Dear tripinit,

Thank you for your email.

Can I confirm you will be paying your outstanding loan of £570.00 in full on 19th November?

Kind Regards,

Laurence

020-8502-1288 / laurenceatmrlenderdotcodotuk

 

This is a ridiculous response in my view and I responded with:

 

Dear Sirs,

Ref: Payday Loan arrears – total loan value £500

Thank you for your telephone message which I missed today due to being in a meeting at work.

I dispute your opinion that I am avoiding corresponding with you; on the contrary, I have made an offer to settle my account with yourselves on 19th November 2010, and you have chosen to ignore this.

I have enclosed the letter I sent you on 21st October 2010 for this reason.

 

Since I wrote the aforementioned letter to you, on 27th October, you have emailed me a “Notice of Default Sums” which you say you have given in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This is despite the fact that I have made, and you have received both verbally and in writing, my offer to repay the full loan amount of £400, interest charges of £100, and an additional £12 to cover your administrative charges for late payment (totalling £512.00) on the 19th November 2010, which is within a month of the time that you feel the original loan would have been due for repayment.

 

Within your email “Notice of Default Sums” dated 27th October, you have added the following charges:

- Original Admin Charges - £30.00

- Default Letter 1 - £20

- Notice of Default Sums - £20

You have stated that in your view the amount owing now totals £570.00

 

I dispute the fact that you can apply these charges for the following reasons:

a) According to OFT Debt Management Guidance 2003 section 2.6F – you cannot force me to repay more than I can comfortably afford

b) According to OFT Debt Management Guidance 2003 section 2.1D – you cannot add charges as a penalty for non-payment, other than to cover the real costs of collections activity

c) I have not received any letter from yourselves, so “Default Letter 1” does not apply

d) The terms and conditions which I signed up to with yourselves do not in any way indicate that charges will be applied to the amounts that you have detailed in your “Notice of Default Sums”.

 

I also dispute the validity of the Default Notice as a whole as you have not enclosed a copy of the current OFT information sheet which since 1st October 2008 must accompany arrears and default notices under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as amended.

 

Let me make my position perfectly clear: I want to pay you £512.00 which settles my account with you; the earliest I can afford to make this payment is on 19th November 2010.

I do not currently have a debit card, and I therefore need to make this payment using bank transfer, therefore please will you write to me confirming the bank name, bank sort code, bank account number and the reference you would like me to attach to the payment.

If you choose not to provide these details on or before 18th November 2010, I will assume that you do not wish to accept my payment.

Yours faithfully

 

Would you believe that their response was a TEXT MESSAGE!!!

Which says: Tripinit, you can pay by bank transfer. Bank: HSBC - Sort Code: 40-06-23 - Account: 3148-7639. Thanks

 

So obviously I wrote back immediately with:

 

Further to the email I sent you earlier today which is below, as the bank details I have received from you were sent to me via text message, I would like you to confirm that they are correct and valid via email or on official company headed paper please:

 

Bank: HSBC

Sort Code: 40-06-23

Account: 3148-7639

 

I have been advised that this is necessary as there is a potential of fraud (albeit I would expect / think it unlikely), in the sense that an employee of your organisation could use your SMS gateway and quote their own bank details for example.

 

In addition, and as per my original letters, and emails including the email below, please could you ensure that you advise me as to what payment reference you would like me to attach to my payment to you as I would like to ensure there are no problems with reconciling my remittance at your end.

If you could adhere to the above two requests on or before 18th November 2010, I will ensure I make the aforementioned payment of £512.00 on 19th November 2010, which will settle my account with you.

Thank you very much for your cooperation

Yours faithfully

 

Well no response at all, despite me sending them further emails - so I have sent them this final letter - which I attached to email as PDF:

 

Dear Sirs

Please find attached a letter – please could you read and action immediately?

Having been accused wrongly by yourselves that I have been trying to avoid corresponding with you, I find it incredible that you either ignore, fail to respond or otherwise avoid answering the points made in my correspondence. The letter is pasted below in case you don’t like attachments.

This is my final letter to you, failure to provide the details I have asked for will put the debt into dispute, and I will fight any attempt on your part to collect on what you feel is owing.

To be absolutely clear, based on your own documentation, I now feel that you have been fraudulent, and I will involve the police and / or other authorities if you do not rectify the situation immediately.

Yours faithfully

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Ref: Final Settlement Offer - £512 (£400 Loan Value, £100 interest charges, £12 admin charges)

 

After my previous letters dated 21st October 2010 and 5th November 2010, as well as emails dated 6th and 8th November 2010, I am very disappointed not to have heard from you.

 

I would like to reiterate the following:

 

1) I am prepared to make a payment via electronic banking on 19th November 2010 of £512.00 in full and final payment in order to settle my account with you

2) I need you confirm that making said payment on 19th November 2010 will settle my account and that you will not seek to either apply any further charges or to try to debit my account for any additional monies

3) I need your confirmation that you will adhere to my email dated 6th November in which I withdrew any consent to your company using any Continuous Payment Authority that you feel you may have from me – in other words you may not seek to take monies from my bank account via my debit card or via direct debit

4) Following your text message (SMS) which I received on 8th November, I need your confirmation in response to my email request of the same date that the bank details you have provided are correct (please confirm via letter or email or on official headed stationary).

5) In order to make payment on the 19th November 2010, I need you to confirm any payment reference you would like me to attach to the payment, and I do not want to find that you subsequently have difficulty in reconciling my remittance

6) I do not accept the additional charges of £70.00 which you have added to my account. At the very least these charges constitute an Unfair Agreement, and actually put the entire debt in dispute which means that you may not continue with any efforts to collect the loan. Please could you remove these charges from my account? Looking at the online portal, I also note that you have added these charges as though they constitute part of the original loan, which they do not, and I believe that by doing this you are committing fraud – please rectify this immediately – on the next page / below is a screenshot from your online system that I took today.

 

In summary please could you do the following?

1) Confirm that a payment of £512.00 which I will pay on 19th November 2010 will settle the account

2) That you will not seek to withdraw funds from my bank account using either debit card details that you hold on file, or by direct debit – I withdraw consent from you doing either of these.

3) Send me confirmation via email or on official letterhead that your bank details are as follows:

Bank: HSBC - Sort Code: 40-06-23 - Account: 3148-7639

4) Provide me with the payment reference that you would like me to apply to my payment

 

Please could you do the above as soon as possible, or at least by 18th November 2010, otherwise I will put the entire loan in dispute, and if you seek collect any part of it, I will consider doing so as fraud,

 

On a final note, I feel that I have been extremely poorly served by yourselves; your representatives state that they will try to help those in financial difficulty, but they employ bullying tactics including telephoning completely random extension numbers at my place of work causing me severe distress when these calls are reported to me by colleagues in completely different departments.

I would also add that on two occasions when collecting my previous loans, you have split the repayments into three or more segments, and I have been out of pocket for up to 10 days on each occasion because a transaction has failed (you didn’t get an authorisation code) and you didn’t tell your bank this as quickly as possible, causing the funds to be unavailable to me during that timeframe. This is extremely poor practice, especially when you consider the type of customer that would be most likely to use your service .

 

I also added a screenshot of their online account screen which states specifically that the loan amount is £570 - this is complete carp, if they had put balance £570 or loan amount £500 with £70 charges then I might not be threatening them with the fraud accusation, but they are a complete shower. Having dealt with other lenders like lendingstream, Uncle Buck, QQ, PDUK, PTP and Wonga, I I am sure these are the worst I have dealt with.

Thanks all

I will send another update if when I hear from them

[sillygirl1]

Are they your REAL bank details in the letter, it is much too wordy, you need to remove the OFT bit about you paying back what you can afford, this isn't the right time to throw that into the pot.

[tripinit]

hi sillygirl, no, they are their bank details, and yeah, probably am too wordy. As to being incorrect about the OFT bit, would you let me know why please? thanks

[tripinit]

oh, sorry, also, I know its a really long post, but its not one letter, and the bank details were sent by them to me on text message - which I find ridiculous

[sillygirl1]

You need to leave the bits out I marked in red, ther main reason being is if you keep it short and simple with this type of company they have no room to start throwing THEIR dubious terms and conditions back at you, or misquoting you should it get to court.....

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Ref: Final Settlement Offer - £512 (£400 Loan Value, £100 interest charges, £12 admin charges)

 

After my previous letters dated 21st October 2010 and 5th November 2010, as well as emails dated 6th and 8th November 2010, I am very disappointed not to have heard from you in a positive manner.

 

I would like to reiterate the following:

 

1) I am prepared to make a payment via electronic banking on 19th November 2010 of £512.00 in full and final payment in order to settle my account with you

 

2) I need confirmation that making said payment on 19th November 2010 will settle my account and that you will not seek to either apply any further charges or to try to debit my account for any additional monies

 

3) I need confirmation that you will adhere to my email dated 6th November in which I withdrew any consent to your company using any Continuous Payment Authority that you feel you may have from me –nor will you use my bank account details to extract funds.

 

4) Following your text message (SMS) which I received on 8th November, I need confirmation in response to my email request of the same date that the bank details you have provided are correct

 

5) In order to make payment on the 19th November 2010, I will use my loan agreement reference and name as identifiying the source of the funds.

 

6) I do not accept the additional charges of £70.00 which you have added to my account.

 

Leave all that lot out, you are not writing a defence but are agreeing a payment plan.

In summary please could you do the following

 

1) Confirm that a payment of £512.00 which I will pay on 19th November 2010 will settle the account

2) That you will not seek to withdraw funds from my bank account using either debit card details that you hold on file, or by direct debit – I withdraw consent from you doing either of these.

 

Leave the rest of the email out - if I were you I would send the edited version every two hours - play them at their own game of harrassment.

 

 

The real secret here is to let them still think they are in the driving seat.

 

You also need to have an alternative bank account set up for your income to go into to prevent future raids... it has been known three months down the line.

[tripinit]

Thanks Sillygirl1

I agree, I am just so surprised at the way they are interacting / not interacting with me, its ridiculous, especially as I have made such a reasonable offer - and even if email is an acceptable method of communication, text message is definitely not, they are a complete shower. Thanks for the advice

[tripinit]

Hi All

just wanted to let you know, a new contact in Mr Lender's collections department finally got around to emailing me their acceptance of my reasonable offer to pay them £512 as full and final settlement.

I hope this will be the end of the matter, but lets see what happens after I pay them next week

Thanks for the advice all

[sillygirl1]

Make sure you get confirmation that the payment has been made and cleared....shows what sticking to your guns gets you.

[tripinit]

Thanks sillygirl1.

Just in case anyone is viewing these posts and looking for support, I can confirm that I got Lendingstream to accept terms as well - I would say that they are much more professional in every way than Mr Lender based on my experience, but in Lendingstream's case they not only agreed not to apply late payment fees, they actually agreed to take a reduced amount compared with the amount owing - its a small one, but still saved me about £55

Cheers

[yumimumi09]

sillygirl1, you seem to know alot about finance i wonder if i could pick your brain with regards to mr lender?

 

my partner had a payday loan with them around two years ago an had payed the majority back with only three arranged payments left to make a year later.... 2@ £62.70 and 1@ £57.50, i had been dealing with them on his behalf at the time due him being very overwhelmed with his debts and unable to react towards the phone calls in a reasonable manner.

at this time we had spoken about him going into a debt relief plan with a very good christian based company i had been put in touch with myself, in which case they had helped me a hell of a lot.

we decided that this would be the best way forward an contacted them to get things in order.

we were informed by the company to refer all remaining parties to them and to explain that he had entered into the program in order to gain help with his debts, and so hes been with that company now for around a year, in this time hes cleared a lot of debt but mr lender hadnt got in contact with him in way atall, no emails, no letters, no phone calls whereas beforehand they had also been harassing him at work and home.

then a few days ago he came home to inform me that he had spoken with his debt relief manager that day and had been informed that mr lender had indeed made contact with them and that they were passing his debt onto a collection agency saying it had now reached a total of £27,000 (yes £27,000!!!) in a year!?!

and so basically the question i suppose i want to ask is........ is this really possible from a £182.90 debt?, why havent they contacted himself in anyway or contacted the company working on his behalf to let them know that the debt was getting this high? and also do you think they can actually do this?

my partner wants to take them to court but he doesnt have anything by means of paperwork or correspondance dates, it is only on mr lenders records if they do indeed actually have any,

hes getting to the end of his tether with this now and i could really do with some advice.

thank you

[sillygirl1]

Mr Lender need reporting to the OFT and FOS, the debt management company (I do hope you aren't paying them) need to be told this debt is going to be dealt with separately.

 

There is NO WAY you owe that mad amount.

 

I would highly recommend getting hold of MP Stella Creasy, she can help with Mr Lender more than I can, she has people who can 'name and shame' this shabby lot. I think it is the only way forward with this particular debt.

 

If they tried court they would be flattened by a judge, they are hoping you will roll over and pay up, but please please please do not.

 

What you must do as over a year has gone since his last payment is send them an SAR request, this costs £10 and asks for everything they have and you can specificially ask for a breakdown of the amount they claim - as they have NOT sent any statements there is already doubt cast on their ability to claim it - regardless of the unfairness of their terms and conditions.

 

I would also start a separate thread about this and I will ask some more clued up people to join in.

[yumimumi09]

thank you ever so much for your help.

he hasnt paid them anything atall since they claimed it was this amount as i advised him not to.

i'm going to take your advice and open a new post with regards to this and have also advised my partner to get in contact with the MP. thank you very very much x

[citizenB]

Linz has her own thread now..

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?398590-Linz-v-Mr-Lender-PDL-Finance-Ltd