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Hi Everyone,

 

I purchased a 4X4 from a dealer two months ago paid £2495 for the car and was given a 3 month warranty.

 

Drove it for two weeks when the back brakes started to grind got it check and found that the brake pads had been worn to extinction.

 

Took it back and the garage (after a row) replaced the pads.

two weeks later the fan belt went so we took straight to the nearest garage they replaced the fan belt along with the power steeering belt and one other that they said were in a bad way as well.

 

Two days ago we had to get it towed off the M1 along with a trailer with livestock as it lost power overheated and the oil light came on.

Upshot is that the garage got the car back and are saying we drove it with no oil which is ludicrous as any time we are towing horses we check fluid levels tyre pressure etc. before set off as a matter of course.

 

I am now sending a letter reffering to SOGA 1979 asking for a full refund as not fit for purpose.

In the meantime the car is parked at the front of the dealership (leagally).

 

I intend to put a notice on the car saying Engine failed after purchasing from this garage 2 months ago and they don't want to know (even with a warranty supplied). Can I get it any trouble legally over doing this?

 

thanks

 

 

Eli

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I put the signs in the window yesterday, they called me at 5pm to offer advice on how cars left out over night in that area tend to get vandilised!! The car is not in any way driveable (smokes after 1 min of the engine running).

 

Do you think I might predudice my case in any way taking this action? I want them to feel the kind of pressure this situation is putting me under. I don't think he taking me seriously because I am a female.

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Hi ellis01

 

The problem is that if you leave it there, it could get stolen, etc. You will be creating a problem if they offer to return the money for the vehicle. Write the letter

send it recorded. Here is a template you can amend. If this gets to court you don't want the court discussing what you did, but you want the court discussing what they did. You need to be professional and but the emotional stuff in the back of your mind.

On the letter write CC: Trading Standards, xxxxx, xxxxxx, xxxxxx, xxxxxx, xxxxxx

xxxxx, xxxxx, xxxx, xxxxx, xxxx = address of your local trading standards. Also call consumer direct, get a reference number

from them, put that on the letter:- Ref: xxxxxxxxx.

 

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/making-complaint/template-letters/SGA1979/

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Thanks Rebel,

 

Will take your advice and move the car ASAP. When Graylands (this is the dealership we purchased from) inspected the vehicle they removed a plate from under the engine should I ask that they put this back on prior to moving it.

 

thanks

 

Eli

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Hi ellis01

 

I would, you don't want them to say it's missing or give them any reasons for not refunding the money. After you get your money back which is the priorty, you can write a letter to any bodies they belong to and send them a copy too.

 

Thanks Rebel,

 

Will take your advice and move the car ASAP. When Graylands (this is the dealership we purchased from) inspected the vehicle they removed a plate from under the engine should I ask that they put this back on prior to moving it.

 

thanks

 

Eli

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They are saying you drove it without oil. If you checked the oil before leaving and it was correct then it is either leaking or burning oil to a degree that it used all the oil in the distance you travelled. The problem being its your word against theirs. Did anybody check the oil when you broke down the recovery company or somebody else?

Has it got oil in it now?

It would not be hard for an engineer to see if it was a dry seize. This would be caused by no oil as they are saying or pump failure which would stop the oil circulating.

Leaving the car there could mean they have the opportunity to tamper with it.

Personally I would recover the vehicle and have it inspected, are you with the AA or RAC?

I would do as Rebel11 suggests and do it without the emotion.

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See you already posted as I wrote. The plate you mention is only a sump guard, If you ask them to refit it watch them do it. But you can drive without it

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I see in their website they are quoting RAC warranty that may be worth a punt complaining to the RAC:wink:

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Hi esmerobbo ,

 

Yes the Oil coolant/water and tyres were checked before setting off. I have done a bit of checking and looked on line at the MOT done in June 2010 there was an advisory, the things on the advisory were front and rear pads worn thin rear disc's slightly pitted engine has an oil leak. Should they have attended to these issues and serviced the vehicle before I took delivery? Not one of their 'carefully chosen professionally prepared ones' as per the web site. The car was taken back to Graylands and they have already had it in the workshop, they say it has oil in it now because they put some in! they also say it's not leaking oil. I will give the RAC a call.

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Just to thank you both for helping me feel more rational. It's nice to know I'm not alone in this. Sorry missed saying the recovery people did not look at the car because it was pitch dark and we would not be asking them to repair it. The person who attended from the highways agency did check underneath the car on the hard shoulder and managed to get her hand covered in oil, I am trying to get hold of the person who attended to get a written statement that should reinstate the car was obviously leaking oil, the garage was aware of this fact prior to selling me the vehicle and therfore the fault was present at the time of purchase and has not developed since.

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Hi elliso1,

 

Get as much evidence together as possible, hopefully the vendor will see sense and know you mean business, sooner rather then later.

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An advisory on an MOT is simply that it is advising of faults which may later cause a problem or a failure at the next MOT. What mileage did the MOT have, and what was the mileage when you picked it up?

 

If it states on the MOT oil leak then that is proof that the dealer knew about it or should have.

 

Did they have the MOT done?

 

I would like to hear their reasoning to putting oil in an engine they claim was run dry?

 

I think if you do as Rebel11 says gather as much evidence as you can including the overall mileage you have covered. Hopefully you can gather enough to make him reconsider his approach.

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Hi esmerobbo,

 

The mileage on the MOT is 103,523 the mileage on the purchase invoice is 103,545 the mileage now is 107,633. I don;t know if they had the MOT done or not but they did and still do have the advisory.

 

Eli

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So with 22 miles since the advisory they can not claim the vehicle was not sold with the leak.

 

Can you print the advisory off the VOSA mot check site??

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I can pay for a copy from the garage that performed the MOT I have already contacted them.

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Seems like you have got it well in hand while collecting it ask if they tested it for the dealers or the previous owner.

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Hi

 

Car now back with me. A friend has given me the following advise and I just wondered if anyone could confirm it's correct. If I reject the vehicle as not fit for purpose then I have to prove the fault was there prior to purchase, if I request a repair or replacement they have to prove the fault was not there prior to purchase.

 

 

thanks

 

 

 

Eli

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Has the fault been verified? It may be difficult for people to advise without knowing what the actual problem is.

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Hi Esmerobbo,

 

Very good question, all I have to go on at the moment is Graylands have said in that what ever is wrong with it is due to lack of engine oil. What I am asking is no matter what the fault is does it depend on which action I take as to who has to prove the vehicle was sold with an existing fault.

 

 

Eli

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That's going to be the sticking point even if you had a cast iron warranty if they claim the damage was caused by your negligence by not putting oil in the vehicle then they could avoid putting it right. That is why I asked previously if anyone had looked at the car before the dealers who could verify it had oil in it.

 

You know you checked the oil before you set off and it was fine? You have covered a little over 4000 miles since you had it so I assume you would have noticed a large oil leak or excessive oil consumption? So the question is from setting off on your journey and the time Graylands lifted the bonnet where did the oil go.

 

What warranty did Graylands actually give you?

 

Without being able to confirm that the vehicle was sold with whatever caused the engine to fail I can see is going to be your problem with any claim. Also seeing you have covered 4000 odd miles I presume the engine did not have any problems up to this incident?

 

It looks like the dealers are going to say it was perfectly good until you let the oil run out! Without having the engine removed stripped and a report made on it by an independent engineer then it will be difficult to prove otherwise.

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Would a car like this use the whole of it's engine oil capacity within just over 4,000 miles? No I did not notice any excesive oil consumption or any leakage. The journey was 300 mile round trip is it possible that the existing oil leak could have been getting worse throughtout the journey. The only person who can verify that there must have been some Oil in at the point of breakdown is the highways agency but they won't be able to confirm how much because the level was not checked. The warranty we were given is Graylands own warranty which was for 3 months. Your last paragraph begs my question who will have produce an engineers report as I have been quoted over £300 for this

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Not at all.

 

Car had an oil leak at MoT as pointed out on advisory. What did the selling garage do to rectify the leak? Nothing I suspect.

 

The onus is on the dealer to prove the fault was NOT there when sold. A bit difficult in this case when the MoT proves it was there!

 

A clear case of 'not fit for purpose' and a full refund is indeed in order. If you paid by credit fard (hopefully) then the card company is jointly liable and you can demand a chargeback.

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No even a badly worn engine would not use that amount of oil without you knowing. Anyway you checked it before you left and it was OK. It may well have been OK when it got back to Graylands!

 

As we know and DD says the leak was there at its MOT so that is one factor in your favour. If it was that leak that caused the engine failure then it was sold with the fault. You would then be entitled to your money back!

 

It is not so easy as DD suggests say on inspection it was found a piece of road debris came from the road punctured the sump and you lost your oil would Graylands be responsible?

 

Thats why you need to pinpoint where the oil went if it was a small leak when it was MOTed which became larger then game set and match to you, as it was sold with the fault.

 

Remember this whole no oil business could be a red herring to try and get out of a claim. Without getting to involved with reports at this point have you got a friend or relative who could maybe take a look and see if it is obvious where any oil was leaking.

 

In the meantime what vehicle is it and what engine has it got. I will look at my Autodata and see what the acceptable oil consumption is.

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It's A Mitsubishi Pajero 2.8 Auto Exceede. I paid by Visa Debit, I have spoken to the dealer dispute department I have to write in and include a copy of the rejection letter sent to Graylands, they will review and get back to me if they think they can persue the matter!

I recieved a registered letter from Graylnds today acknowledgeing reciept of my letter and they will get back to me in 14 days as requested also that they take no responsibilty for my vehicle being parked on the road outside the showroom. As you know I had it recovered by the AA late last night funny thing is the sump gaurd has been put back on, they left the sheet of cardboard they were using and it's covered in Oil drips.

 

thanks guys

 

 

Eli

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2.8 turbo diesel depending on engine number holds 6.5 or 7.8 litres. Mitsubishi have no bulletins regarding oil consumption. 300Ml per 1000 miles is considered to be top end acceptable. so on them figures the 6.5 litre sump would do over 21500mls and the 7.8 sump 26000 miles before running dry.

Seeing you have done 4000mls top end the engine should have used 1.2ltrs of oil max.

 

Good news on the Visa card gives you more leverage.

Edited by esmerobbo

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