Bailif has taken money - help :(

[razer12121]

So im hoping someone here can help me! i writing this on behalf of my sister as im really worried about her, to cut a long story short she got a fine of £30 for having her numberplate in her window (from bumper was ripped of and she was getting it repaired) either way she went to the local cop station and had a chat with them there, since then she has has hear nothing from them, no letters, no demanding money or anything. this was 6 months ago!

 

now before i start, my sister is a single working mum and relys on her car to get her 2 and from work, she has 1 son of 6years.

 

at 7 in the morning a bailif knocked her door, he said he had a warrant for her car and she either paied £320 there ir he would take it, in a panic she invited him in yes big mistake i know, however it continues

 

she told him she needed the car for work and he replied with "tough pay it or its gone"

 

she asked about the letters abd he said 2 have been sent, yet she has recived NONE. she asked why they was not sent recorded and he then replyed with "you would have to pay for that and you wouldnt" she said that if it was recorded she would pay as it was important, he replyed with "no you wouldnt" his manor was very intimadating and was scaring her child and her.

 

she said to him that she couldnt pay the orginal fine as the slip had gone and fines depo wernt answer her and she hadnt heard from them since she had been to the cops.

 

the bloke would not leave unless she paid it, he told her "you will have to borro it",

 

the whole time this was done in front of her son, the bailif was rude and nasty about it and refused to leave unless she paid it,

i love my sister along with other family members and friends so of course when we got calls, we helped out. she had paid £220 in cash and then £100 on her debit card, the bailif however did fail to tell her about the £1 charge he was adding for a handling fee! she only noticed this after she had the recipet, which she has not signed (unsure if she needs to so thought i would point out)

 

we have a reference number and his name, but now my sister has a bigger problem, she cannot send her son spiceball after school as she cannot afford it, our mum has had to have her,

 

she is skint and has had to borrow money for petrol and food to feed herself and her son!

 

its a disgrace what he did and i despratly want to help her get the money back, im aware he didnt show any papers and also very aware he has charged her for letters that didnt even get sent out, the company is

 

"marstons group limited"

 

please help

[razer12121]

please help

[fork-it]

Phone the magistrates court and ask how much the fine is. That is all she owes and nothing else.

 

Some "experts" on this forum say you are liable for the agreed £75 letter fee and a further £200 visitation fee. While those amonts are quoted in a contract between the bailiff and the court service, I cannot find anything in the contract between the court service and the bailiff company that requires the debtor to pay them.

 

Personally, I would go with the office Court Service Advice which says "bailiffs cannot charge you any more than you are fined". http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex345.pdf On page 3 under Magistrates courts

 

In any event Section 93 of the Courts Act requires a magistrate to make a costs order against the debtor before a bailiff can collect his fee from the debtor for an unpaid court fine.

 

If you feel threatened by them then call police showing the above court advisory, a copy of the Marston document showing the £300-plus demand, a print out of Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/section/2 and print a copy of a House of Lords official position that affirms bailiff crime is not a civil matter. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200607/ldhansrd/text/70420w0001.htm see under Crime Fraud

 

Dont expect police to get too excited about your complaint, but it should be enough to put the matter to bed.

 

These posters have successfully recovered unlawful bailiffs fees when they contacted the court.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/229873-help-philips.html#post2547500

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/254610-n244-county-court-action-2.html

 

If all fails, you paid with a credit card, contact your bank and reclaim it under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 because the bailiff made a false representation to obtain a credit money transfer. This is called a chargeback.

[razer12121]

wow thanks for the reply! but, it was a hmrc thames valley, not court, this is what i said, she hasnt been taken to court and hasnt had any letters, i have posted this in the right section right...?

[fork-it]

HMRC has no schedule of statutory fees for unpaid tax, and there has been no order for Costs made against you then bailiffs fees = £0.00. Section 2 of the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971 http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+Primary&PageNumber=50&NavFrom=2&parentActiveTextDocId=1366984&ActiveTextDocId=1366984&filesize=38108

[razer12121]

Thank you

 

Just a couple more things, she has already paid the money so where do we stand with this? is there a template letter i can send to marstons? ive a fealing they will refuse to pay us a refund.

 

the bank also said that because my sister allowed the payment in the first place then they cannot do anything about it, is this the case still? or will they have to listen to it due to the fraud act?

 

thank you

[tomtubby]

Thank you

 

Just a couple more things, she has already paid the money so where do we stand with this? is there a template letter i can send to marstons? ive a fealing they will refuse to pay us a refund.

 

the bank also said that because my sister allowed the payment in the first place then they cannot do anything about it, is this the case still? or will they have to listen to it due to the fraud act?

 

thank you

 

You sister should have been issued with a FPN. This is a Fixed Penalty Notice. It is possible that DVLA had the wrong details for her and if so, documents would have been incorrectly addresses (maybe she had not updated her address etc).

 

If this is the case, then she can simply file a Statutory Declaration with the relevant Magistrates Court and this will REVOKE the fine and "rewind" the process and she will then receive a refund of the fees paid and fine.

[razer12121]

You sister shoul...snip...will then receive a refund of the fees paid and fine.

 

Ok, but it wasnt anything to do with the dvla? how would the dvla be involved? you have lost me

 

HMRC has no schedule ...snip...ilesize=38108[/url]

 

Can i ask, does this affect my sister? the fine wasn't anything to do with tax, but a fine for her numberplate being in her window, so i dont think its a tax thing?

 

either way we have found out that £30 is the fine and £15 is court fees, marstons have told us this themselfs (not in writing) so we are about to have fun! a lot of acts have been broken and we are now going to push and push, we are in the process of arraging a chargeback on her bank aswell.

 

thank you all so much so far! any other tips or pointers are alway welcome!

Edited October 27, 2010 by razer12121

[fork-it]

If its a magistrates court fine then you only owe the amount the court says and nothing else.

 

Some contributors on this forum might advise you to pay the bailiff a £75/£200 letter/visitation fee. Its up to you whose advice you choose to follow. Just go the Court office with money and get a receipt.

 

To get a chargeback, speak to your chargebacks department at your bank and ask for a form, complete it and you should get a refund in 40 days. The merchant (bailiff) will have 42 days to appeal against the chargeback. Bailiff might try to claim from the chargeback fee charged by their bank, remember you are not liable for paying the bailiffs chargeback fee, that is in the merchant service agreement, a contract that exists between the bailiff and their bank. I remember, the agreement (I know CardNet and Barclays MS do because I am account holder for accepting rent arrears from my tenants) specifically exclude merchants from passing on their account fees to consumers.

[razer12121]

well, she didnt get any letters, and it states that the he is charger her fees that really he cant (the fraud act and so on) am i correct in thinking this?

 

p.s she has already paid the bailif

 

so how would she go about paying the fine directly? can she still do so?

[razer12121]

Also can anyone point me in the right direction as to writing a letter to marstons? like is there a template or anything i can follow? thanks!

[fork-it]

I can only say that these two posters were successful in recovering their fees. I do remember seeing a good template and I'll post it if found. It appears success is achieved my making a complaint to the magistrates court.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/229873-help-philips.html#post2547500

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/254610-n244-county-court-action-2.html

 

 

I dont think you will get far trying to get a refund out of Marstons. I think a simple letter asking for a refund based on the above information quoted by the Court Service website, then file a Form N1 at your local county court to recover the fees.

 

 

The Defendants are addressed as:

 

[NAME OF BAILIFF COMPANY] a firm

 

Brief Details of the Claim - enter - Reclaiming unlawful bailiff's fees.

 

Particulars of claim:

 

I received a bailiff herein referred to as "The Defendant" acting for the Court Service collecting an unpaid magistrate's court fine. I understand there is no legislation prescribing bailiff fees for collecting unpaid fines and The Defendant dishonestly charged me [£AMOUNT] under a pretence he has a statutory right to charge me bailiffs fees. This is contrary to the official published guidelines on bailiffs fees for collecting court fines by HM Court Service (http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex345.pdf) and on page 3 under Magistrates courts, it does not provide for The Defendant to charge me fees where no goods have been transported or sold by The Defendant. The Defendant did not move any goods in a van and I did not sign any documents for The Defendant. I have been defrauded by The Defendant who is cheating with his fees I understand is contrary to Sections 1 to 5 of the Fraud Act 2006 and confirmed in the House of Lords on 20 April 2007. I asked for a refund but it was The Defendants choice to keep the money. There is no order for costs against me and the defendant appears to be under a belief that contractually agreed fees between himself and the Court Service for collecting unpaid fines is legally binding on me. I claim i) the sum of [£AMOUNT], ii) Interest under Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from the date the money became due at the daily rate of 0.00022%, iii) reasonable costs the court thinks fit for being defrauded by the defendant iv) Reasonable costs the court thinks fit for Discovery of Information and compiling this case for court, v) costs allowed by the court at the prescribed rate.

 

If you are on a low income then complete an EX160 fee remission form.

[razer12121]

I can on...snip...ssion form.

 

You are very good at this i cannot thank you enough so far, but i do have a few more questions

 

how would i find the correct Magistrates courts address? or is it one for all or something? im not very good with this law stuff

 

also an EX160 fee remission? she is on a low income yes

[fork-it]

The Form N1 is filed at your local county court: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/HMCSCourtFinder/ you can also search for you local magistraes court.

 

Complete a Form EX160 giving your partners income and expenditure. http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/EX160_web_0709.pdf and explanatory notes: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex160a_web_0709.pdf

[razer12121]

Thanks, may i point out that it is for my sister not partner

 

also....if i could be a real pain and just confirm in a step by step what i need to do? im really confussed:???:

[fork-it]

Make a post in the legal section of this forum and they can guide you to the process of a making a claim in the small claims track

[razer12121]

ok, thank you

[razer12121]

You sister should have been issued with a FPN. This is a Fixed Penalty Notice. It is possible that DVLA had the wrong details for her and if so, documents would have been incorrectly addresses (maybe she had not updated her address etc).

 

If this is the case, then she can simply file a Statutory Declaration with the relevant Magistrates Court and this will REVOKE the fine and "rewind" the process and she will then receive a refund of the fees paid and fine.

 

Sorry i went right past this post! either way could you enlighten me abit more? she did have it yes but her son lost it, hench why she couldnt pay, she tried to ring the fine office but couldnt get through so she gave up (0845 number) this was after a week.

 

so anything ive missed or any advice? thanks!

[Raykay]

Personally, I would go with the office Court Service Advice which says "bailiffs cannot charge you any more than you are fined". http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex345.pdf On page 3 under Magistrates courts

 

If Marstons are acting as Civilian Enforcement Officers from the Magistrates Court, no fee is payable. If they are acting as bailiffs enforcing the fine, there should be an agreed scale of charges, contact the Magistrates Court for it - the last paragraph on page 3 in the link above.

[hallowitch]

there fee scale is £75 letter £200 visit

[razer12121]

Thanks but i've no idea who the bailiff is acting on behalf of...other than the HM whatever it is, will have to look it up on the receipt.

 

Also they NEVER sent out a letter, so

 

1.how can they charge for something they have not sent?

2.how can they charge a fee for coming out when the letter was not sent first.

 

so evening if this is the case, surly my sister can do something about this?

 

""edit""

 

I'm also 100percent certain that the bailiff is acting on behalf of..Civilian Enforcement Officers from the Magistrates Court

 

so fees? no. im just unsure who to contact first and so on,

Edited November 5, 2010 by razer12121

[Raykay]

To make sure, ask the court if one of their enforcement officers are dealing with the matter or if the court have passed it to the bailiffs for enforcement.

[razer12121]

Ok, who is it i need to get my sister to contact? i understand i need to ask the court but i dont know which one or if i need a reference or anything?

[razer12121]

Bump bump! need to know

[razer12121]

bump! i have the paymetn receipt, it has at the very bottom,

 

"Enforcement officer"

 

it also says "client : HMCS Thames Valley"

 

so i assume he is an enforcement officer acting on behalf of HMCS correct?

 

please help i really want to get this sorted out!