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Mistake made by a dealer - Paid much less than the asking price ** Court Papers Received **


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Just a quick one to the OP; does yourcopy of the invoice also bear the seller's signature?

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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Try the old yellow pages. Just tell the solicitor that you need 1/2 an hour to run through a scenario. A lot of them do, do a fixed fee for a quick opinion which is what you need. Am surprised you cannot find one. It's the independants you ought to look for.

I have, i think found a local solicitor but need to phone back Monday morning.

 

Just a quick one to the OP; does yourcopy of the invoice also bear the seller's signature?

Neither copies are signed by the dealer but the warranty paperwork which reflects the same price as my copy is.

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Does the invoice bear a serial nomber and is a one that has the dealer's printed logo/letter heading type?

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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Does the invoice bear a serial number and is a one that has the dealer's printed logo/letter heading type?

 

Hi SS,

 

The invoice just has the company name and trading details including V.A.T reference etc but no transaction number or reference. I have compared the two and there is no doubt that apart from the alterations made by the Claimant they are the same.

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Hi SS,

 

The invoice just has the company name and trading details including V.A.T reference etc but no transaction number or reference. I have compared the two and there is no doubt that apart from the alterations made by the Claimant they are the same.

 

I'm just wondering if it will be regarded as an official invoice without a sales transaction number or seller's signature on it. However, as the seller has submitted his copy in evidence, it should follow that he is confirming it is a 'true' record of the transaction so it should stand up.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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Ok so I had a session with a solicitor yesterday and if i’m honest I don’t think she fully understood the issue, I also felt that as she was a trainee solicitor she was not qualified to offer advise unsupervised.

What she did say was that as the dealer can demonstrate that the vehicle was advertised online and has produced a copy of the advert it would be assumed I entered into a contract with the dealer and agreed to pay the advertised price by paying a deposit to hold the car. She also went on to say that the dealer is not contractually bound to honour the transaction or warranty as a genuine mistake was made and it was my responsibility to at all times bring this to the attention of the dealer. It was mentioned that as the dealer had stated on more than one occasion that he was considering litigation and that I had not offered to repay the amount there is a very good chance the District Judge would rule in the Claimants favour.

Also the copy of the sales invoice that shows the actual amount paid is meaningless as the amended copy provide by the dealer reflects the amount that should have been paid, not the amount that HAD been paid. I argued that surely my copy, the one which sows the actual amount overrides the other as this reflects a true statement of account. She is of the opinion it does not.

The Solicitor has suggested that it would be within my best interests to settle out of court and NOT peruse any claim for against the dealer for not honouring the warranty. Great!

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Mmm, she obviously dosn't regard the invoice as a contact of sale. My previous questions in relation to the invoice were because of a matter I assited in a number of years ago. While working at a main dealer, A collegue of mine ordered a brand new car through an employee discount scheme. He paid a deposit and signed the 'new vehicle order' which detailed the sales price and discount ect. The sales manager also signed it and gave my collegue a copy. The car concerned wasn't in stock and was due to be delivered about 3 weeks later. In the meantime, the collegue landed himself into a spot of trouble and was fired. The sales manager subsiquently told him that the order would no longer be subject to the employee discount (which was around £3000!) and as such the collegue would either have to pay the normal retail price or he could cancel and get get his deposit back. The collegue (who was a very goodf friend of mine), took legal advice and was told that the contract (order) was binding and no where upon it did it state that the discount was subject to the continued employment of the employee. That and the fact that the order was signed by both him and the sales manager ment that the dealer had to honour the aggreed stated price including the discount. It did almost went to court and in fact the car arrived and was almost registerd to someone else (it even was allocated with a different reg to the one my friend had been given) but obviously the dealership took advice and honoured the sale. The fact it was a new car meant that it had a manufatcturer's warrnaty so that wasn't an issue.

 

My thinking on your case is the importance of the invoice and the fact it has no transaction or invoice number worries me a little especially as the dealer hasn't signed it which is why I asked the question. However, I still feel that the fact it has been altered should carry some weight if it is in fact an invoice. Obviously I havn't seen it so I cannot say. Unfortunately I think you have only 3 options now; to accept the advice given and settle out of court on the understanding that the warranty will be honoured (not that used car warranties are very good), get a second legal opinion or test it by taking it to court. The latter is really the only way of answering the question conclusively but potentially at further cost.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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SailorSam

 

I think your example is slightly different - in your case, all the parties agreed a price (the price of the car minus an employee discount). Once the employee was dismissed, the company tried to claim that he was not subject to the discount scheme.

 

In the present case, there has not really been any "meeting of the minds" or "consensus ad idem". The car sale seems to have been agreed on the basis of one price (the higher price). However, through some mistake, the car was actually sold at a lower price. The dealer never intended to sell at that price, it was a mistake.

Warning: Freemen of the Land Operate here. Think twice before accepting 'legal advice'.

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I realise that MM, but once somthing has been confirmed in writing (mistake or otherwise) it usually is binding. A lot of people park illegally or do some other contravention by 'mistake' but the argument of 'it was a mistake' dosn't normally stand up in court, civil or otherwise.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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See if you can negotiate a settlement figure that includes the warranty. Offer them 40% of balance and maybe they will be happy. If not offer 50%, then 60% going up at bit at a time each time and ringing off after each offer to see if you have sufficient funds or to discuss it with someone else.

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The fact that everything is written down in an invoice is a bit of a red herring.

 

It is established law that where a contract is formed, it may be declared void should one party be aware of a mistake made by the other party: Hartog v Colin and Shields [1939] 3 ALL ER 566

There has been case law since then which deals with when someone should be considered to have known about a mistake. However in the present case, it is clear that the OP was aware that the car dealer had made a mistake.

 

As for invoice - as I said, this is a bit of a red herring. However, even though there is now a written 'agreement' this can still be altered if there is a mistake: Thomas Bates Son v Wyndhams Ltd [1981] 1 W.L.R. 505 where it was held that "where one party is mistaken as to the incorporation of the agreement in the document, and the other knows of the mistake, and does not draw it to the attention of the first party, it suffices that it would be inequitable to allow the second party to insist on the binding force of the document either because this would benefit him or because it would be detrimental to the mistaken party." (Chitty)

 

I really do think that the OP should think about this. If he needs more time, file the acknowledgement of service form - which will give another 14 days to get a second opinion if he so wishes.

Warning: Freemen of the Land Operate here. Think twice before accepting 'legal advice'.

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The OP knew full well that the price charged was wrong. I bet he discussed it with his wife throughout the drive home. I believe that an amount charged by mistake can be recovered by a trader. I believe you are clearly trying to wheedle out of paying the money back to the garage and in normal circumstances, I think the judge would judge in the garages favour. But, then comes the issue of the forged document which is a seperate claim all together. The judge will hate it and might just throw out the claim or even judge in your favour. I think your actions in failing to pay, caused the garage owner to try too hard in thinking how he could get his money back, and in their desperation for fair play , the garage has committed a worse action than you did. But that does not mean he should lose his £1000.

 

I think you should pay him his money and get the case dropped. That way, both you and the garage are left with would have been expected had the transaction been correctly completed.

 

On the other hand, the garages crime tells me that they dont deserve fair play, and now that the die is cast, I would proceed to court just for the fun of getting this to a judge and seeing what happens. Win or lose, it would be a really exciting 30 minutes.

 

As for the warranty, I thought these were honoured by the warranty insurers not by an individual dealer.

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The company probably done this to scare you and make you pay up.

In my experience you can do the following if you havent already sent in a defence.

 

The POC shows that the Claimant was not sure about the price and therefore bargained and agreed with you a price.

The contract of sale was complete when you payed the cash and they accepted it. A car was agreed for a price and you gave that cash, contract done.

 

Also along with the defence you can add a letter with a copy of your letter. keep the original.

Write a letter to the company and notify them that you will make a counter claim if the claim is not withdrawn.

I dont know what you can realy counterclaim with realy but I do know you can claim time wasted as a result of attending court if you win.

 

Write to the judge, hand it in at the court.

Claim No. xxxxxxxxxxx Your vs them. in the xxxxxxxxxxx county court.

 

Dear Sir

I would like to bring to your attention this claim were a contract was made and accepted.

A car was offered and sold to me at the price which I paid and have proof in the way of a receipt.

The defendant aknowledge their mistake in the POC.

 

I do believe I have no legal obligation towards the defendant to pay any extra as the contract was made and accepted and exchange made.

 

Therefore I would request the case be struck out.

 

Yours faithfully

 

sign

date

"

make it sound sweeter, as my english is straight forward

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I'm trying to find a solicitor who charges less than £180 to offer advice but not having much luck. So far I have phoned a couple of solicitors in my area and tried searching using Contactlaw.co.uk.

 

As you are in the small claims court small claims track (assumed because its less then £1000) you cannot claim more then £250 in costs, of which solicitor fees are normally not more then £80, unless it goes to fast track- looser pays the fees.

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The OP knew full well that the price charged was wrong. I bet he discussed it with his wife throughout the drive home. I believe that an amount charged by mistake can be recovered by a trader. I believe you are clearly trying to wheedle out of paying the money back to the garage and in normal circumstances, I think the judge would judge in the garages favour. But, then comes the issue of the forged document which is a seperate claim all together. The judge will hate it and might just throw out the claim or even judge in your favour. I think your actions in failing to pay, caused the garage owner to try too hard in thinking how he could get his money back, and in their desperation for fair play , the garage has committed a worse action than you did. But that does not mean he should lose his £1000.

 

I think you should pay him his money and get the case dropped. That way, both you and the garage are left with would have been expected had the transaction been correctly completed.

 

On the other hand, the garages crime tells me that they dont deserve fair play, and now that the die is cast, I would proceed to court just for the fun of getting this to a judge and seeing what happens. Win or lose, it would be a really exciting 30 minutes.

 

As for the warranty, I thought these were honoured by the warranty insurers not by an individual dealer.

 

Nicola,

 

WRT to the warranty. The issue here is that it is provided by the RAC and to enable them to create the Warranty account they must first receive the relevant paperwork from the dealer. The dealer has refused to submit this.

I have a copy of the application form which will form part of my counter claim against the garage.

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Nicola,

 

WRT to the warranty. The issue here is that it is provided by the RAC and to enable them to create the Warranty account they must first receive the relevant paperwork from the dealer. The dealer has refused to submit this.

 

I have a copy of the application form which will form part of my counter claim against the garage.

 

Counterclaim : now that they have issued a claim against you, you can issue a counter claim against them.

They have to give you the warranty as it was agreed.

 

You must write a letter to the garage and inform them that they should not be withholding the warranty, as a contract was made by them even if it was a mistake and you agreed not knowing it was a mistake and exchanged money for goods, and have a receipt.

 

Key facts: if something is agreed then you cannot change your mind because of change of circumstances,

You are the customer who baught a legitimate car at the correct price,

You are intitled for your loss of earnings (no more then £50 a day) for attending court.

It will take about 4-6 months before you have a hearing date.

Best to file all copies into court of everthing and also to the third party, and wait for a allocation questionaire from the judge or the case thrown out if you have sent your letter.

If the case is thrown out you can simply goto the garage and say that they have to pay you, then you issue a claim and you should win.

 

Alternativly if you know you have the proof then I would do the following, contact RAC direct and get a price from them, tell the company that you are getting the policy direct and therefore want a refund of the warranty.

And then get the Policy notifying the defendant and Claim the cost back in court (if you dont notify them and keep a recorded delivery receipt, you may loose your entitlement to claim back your loss, but RAC may have a process where they dont warrant a car twice).

 

They will be very stuburn.

Free advise is located at the Citizen advice burau, ask to see the in house Solicitor.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Erm, SAB.. where is it ??

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:) You are welcome. Best of luck.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Update,

Defence submitted and the Court has acknowledged receipt and also sent an Allocation questionnaire to be completed within 14 days. The best bit is that the Claim has been transferred to my local Court which is some 200 miles from where the Claimant lives.

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