London House, Hamptons, Lowell portfolio 1 and Lloyds TSB Statutory Demand (Help Please).

[DesignTime]

Hi Everyone,

 

I hope someone can help me please.

 

I have received a Letter from London House posted through the door on the 30/09/10. I was going to be served with a Statutory Demand on the 04/10/10. I sent a Fax letter to London House stating that I do not know of any outstanding debts and only contact me in future by mail.

 

The Statutory Demand was posted through the letter box on the 04/10/10 I was not there till thursday. On Friday 08/10/10 I sent the standard CCA letter to Hamptons and Lowell Portfolio 1 with 2 £1.00 Postal Orders. I also sent a SAR Letter to Lloyds TSB with a £10.00 postal order.

 

Please see attached scans:

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee442/Design-Time/SDScans.jpg

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee442/Design-Time/SDScans1.jpg

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee442/Design-Time/SDScans2.jpg

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee442/Design-Time/SDScans3.jpg

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee442/Design-Time/SDScans4.jpg

 

I have been reading loads and loads of threads and I am now starting to get confused! I know I have to apply for a set aside using the form 6-4 and 6-5 is this the next step?

 

I had a Access card 2004 that I walked away from because I was in a very bad financial place at the time.

 

I have a few other questions to:

 

The Statutory Demand has an account number I don't recognize?

I the amount is owed I don't recognize?

I am not sure they have the right person?

They haven't sent anything for me to identify the debt and I have no records left.

I never received any letters?

I have never had any verbal contact at all.

I have never been informed the debt had been sold.

 

How should i fill out the set aside as I have no information on the debt?

Can anyone tell me what to do next please.

 

Thanks in advance

 

DesignTime

[martin g]

Hello DT,

If you last paid anything in 2004 the debt is probably staute barred as 6 years have passed without akowledgement of the debt.

You need to put this at the top of your set aside and put Lowells to strict proof that a payment has been made within the 6 years. it is known that DCA's invent payemnts to keep the debt alive so if they come back with a claimed payment you need them to product hard evidence.

The link below takes you to a belt and braces defence which you will need to knock about a bit to fit your own circumstances, IMO the more points you raise the harder it will be for Lowells to produce all the documentation you are asking for.

You need a complete set of statements from the start of the account to the default to see how they have arrived at the sum owing, penalty charges and mis-sold PPI can be reclaimed/ offset. You need to push Lloyds for this info.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=22029&d=1285191692

 

Don't just edit it and print it off, you need to understand what you are saying to a judge who may raise points on it. All the info can be found on the site, have a look under DCA successes and you will find lots of SD set asides that have been won.

 

Martin g

[DesignTime]

Thanks very much Martin,

 

I will go through this on Sunday and have a good read.

 

To be honest I cant remember when I last paid them. It might be less than six years. I have no way of checking as I do not have any records at all.

 

All I have is the SD info!

[Guest]

Re set aside of stat demand, NOTE the time limits!

see for eg http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=36_dealing_with_a_statutory_demand

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?162131-Statutory-Demands-and-Service-By-Post

ps. you should act quickly re set aside of SD imo.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Ford
ps added

[DesignTime]

Martin G and Ford,

 

Your posts were brilliant very very helpful!

 

I have filled in both forms and I will take them to court on Monday.

 

I will keep you updated with what happens as it happens.

 

Once again thank for all your help.

 

DesignTime

[Lemmein]

Hi DesignTime,

 

Do you own a property? Im asking as its rare to see Lowel/Red/Hamptons go down the Bankruptcy route

 

of course it could be a bluff i guess..

[DesignTime]

Update!

 

Yes Lemmein, I own a property with my new wife and I can not afford a bluff so I must take them seriously.

 

I have received a letter from Lloyds TSB asking me to nominate a branch to collect my parcel! (it must be a lot of info then)

 

I have not had any contact from Lowell or Hamptons. and it has now been 20 days. I will now send them both a reminder letter.

 

I have also had a letter from the court saying they are looking over my application to set aside.

[DesignTime]

Hi everyone,

 

I hope I have some good news!

 

I have had a reply from Hamptons (See Link) http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee442/Design-Time/HamptonsReply.jpg

I have also had the same basic info from Lloyds.

 

Both people have sent me copies of old statements, No signed aggrement and no signed T&C's.

 

YES! i just said NO SIGNED AGREEMENT INCLUDED. and an admission from Hamptons they don't have one!.

 

I now also have a date in early January for the set aside hearing.

 

My question is what is the next step?

 

Do they still have a case without a signed agreement?

Do I still go to court to have it set aside?

 

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance

[creditcardmug]

You MUST attend that hearing, they probably wont bother, if they do send a rep, he/she will have no evidence and ask for an adjournment, you should oppose this on the grounds they have absolutely no "cause for action" in that they have brought the matter before the court without the necessary paperwork to prove their case, this being an abuse of process.

That said i dont know what access is, i presume a credit card, if so and without a signed agreement, itself containing all the "prescribed terms", they dont have a leg to stand on.

There is a member on here called 42man who has extensive knowledge of the stat demand process, i hope he sees this, and advises you further.

[DesignTime]

Thanks for the advice creditcardmug.

[42man]

Hello DT...may I ask what you have put in your defence ? and did you get it all 'sworn in' at the court/local solicitor ? Do PM me with this if you don't want Lowells to see this....

[DesignTime]

Thanks I have PM you

 

Kind Regards

 

DesignTime

[42man]

You should ring the court and check that the forms do NOT have to be sworn in especially so as 6.5 is an affadavit and it would be the first time ever that an affadavit has not been sworn in....did you deliver these by hand to the court ? If you sent them in then you would need to have got the affadavit sworn in by a local solicitor (which normally costs around £5)....plus there is no evidence whatsoever that they have attempted any kind of service whatsoever, postal service can only be granted if they have made every reasonable attempt to effect personal delivery (which it seems they haven't) you can refer to this -

 

Judge Boggis QC - RE AWAN - [2000] BPIR 241

 

'In my judgment, bankruptcy is one of the most serious forms of execution that can be brought against a debtor. In any bankruptcy proceedings it is, in my view, absolutely clear that the provisions as to service must be followed exactly. The rules provide in terms that the petition must be supported by an affidavit of service showing how the petition was served, and express reference is made to substituted service and the way in which that then is to be proved, which involves the affidavit of service having with it a sealed copy of the order.' - JUDGE BOGGIS QC - SITTING AS A JUDGE OF THE HIGH COURT

Although this refers to bankruptcy it makes it quite clear that the process must be followed exactly.

 

The fact is they are in default of your agreement request and have provided nothing. (Even if they provided a reconstituted agreement) then you can check it is bonafide (i.e.interest rates are in line with the interest rate on the agreement)

 

No notices of assignments

 

Did you SAR the original creditor too ?

 

No default notice that contains the prescribed terms

 

Do the statements contain any reference to yourself ? i.e. your address ?

 

No indication of whether there was any Payment Protection Insurance

 

And you believe there is no proof that the alleged debt is barred by the Statute Of Limitations Act

 

(oh yes and please report them to the OFT Too !!).

 

And don't forget to submit your costs so that they are in the case file at least 24 hours before the hearing.....

[42man]

If all they have provided is nothing else then it would seem they are also in default of your SAR request too. They are supposed to send screen shots, copies of assignments, defalut notices, agreements etc....to be honest I would also be taking this up with the Information Commissioners Office too.

[DesignTime]

Hi

 

Thanks for the reply

 

I will answer all your questions

 

You should ring the court and check that the forms do NOT have to be sworn in especially so as 6.5 is an affidavit and it would be the first time ever that an affidavit has not been sworn in....did you deliver these by hand to the court ? If you sent them in then you would need to have got the affidavit sworn in by a local solicitor (which normally costs around £5)....plus.

 

I have phoned the court and you are right! I will go down to the court and get it sworn in. Should I change it first?

 

There is no evidence whatsoever that they have attempted any kind of service whatsoever, postal service can only be granted if they have made every reasonable attempt to effect personal delivery (which it seems they haven't) you can refer to this -

 

The letter from London House cover this point? They delivered it on the day stated, I was away so they pushed through the letterbox.

 

Judge Boggis QC - RE AWAN - [2000] BPIR 241

 

'In my judgment, bankruptcy is one of the most serious forms of execution that can be brought against a debtor. In any bankruptcy proceedings it is, in my view, absolutely clear that the provisions as to service must be followed exactly. The rules provide in terms that the petition must be supported by an affidavit of service showing how the petition was served, and express reference is made to substituted service and the way in which that then is to be proved, which involves the affidavit of service having with it a sealed copy of the order.' - JUDGE BOGGIS QC - SITTING AS A JUDGE OF THE HIGH COURT

 

Although this refers to bankruptcy it makes it quite clear that the process must be followed exactly.

 

The fact is they are in default of your agreement request and have provided nothing. (Even if they provided a reconstituted agreement) then you can check it is bonafide (i.e.interest rates are in line with the interest rate on the agreement)

 

I have nothing with my signature on it

No notices of assignments

 

No, I don’t thing so!

 

Did you SAR the original creditor too ?

 

Yes and they sent me the same statements plus something called a “View Router Account” It has details of all Lloyds actions etc.

 

No default notice that contains the prescribed terms

 

I have DSAR! What is this?

 

Do the statements contain any reference to yourself ? i.e. your address ?

 

I have 30 statements to an old address.

 

No indication of whether there was any Payment Protection Insurance

 

No Payment Protection

 

And you believe there is no proof that the alleged debt is barred by the statute of limitations Act

 

It is not statute barred as last payment was June 2006

 

(oh yes and please report them to the OFT Too !!).

 

How do I do I report them?

And don't forget to submit your costs so that they are in the case file at least 24 hours before the hearing.....

 

I will.

 

If all they have provided is nothing else then it would seem they are also in default of your SAR request too.

 

Lloyds have sent sheets of paper from Apex, and Credit Security Limited they look like searches.

 

They are supposed to send screen shots, copies of assignments, defalut notices, agreements etc....to be honest

 

What is Assignments

 

I would also be taking this up with the Information Commissioners Office too.

 

How do I do that?

 

Thanks for all your help it is very much appreciated.

 

DesignTime

[42man]

No agreements ? then they are in default of your request !! Postal service can only be granted by a judge if it has been impossible to give the demand to you personally....have they actually tried to serve it personally on you ?

 

Lloyds should send you agreements, copies of default notices, notices of assignment...if they do not have them then they should explain this and state that they do not have the items....you should write to the ICO telling them that these have not been provided. Same applies to the DCA if they do not have any kind of assigmnent, nor copies, then it is hardly your fault. But they must state this.

 

I think there is enough to be disputed here. And if by any chance it isn't going your way then you request the judge orders both the original creditor and the DCA, signed agreements (not reconstituted), copies of default notices, notices of assignment, statements for the duration of the account to show excess charges and possibly missold PPI (are you sure there is no PPI ?).(bear in mind that if missold PPI is proven it brings the whole agreement into question)...if they do provide an agreement then you should check that the interest rate matches up to what the statements say. If it doesn't then they could be scuppered. As the prescribed terms will be incorrect....

[DesignTime]

No agreements ? then they are in default of your request !!

 

OK, I have stated this in my statement.

Postal service can only be granted by a judge if it has been impossible to give the demand to you personally....have they actually tried to serve it personally on you ?

 

They Did try to serve me with the SD but I was away. I have never received anything else by post or by recorded delivery.

 

Lloyds should send you agreements, copies of default notices, notices of assignment...if they do not have them then they should explain this and state that they do not have the items....you should write to the ICO telling them that these have not been provided.

 

So should I write to Lloyds asking why they have not supplied them? Will it make a difference if I report them to ICO?

 

Same applies to the DCA if they do not have any kind of assigmnent, nor copies, then it is hardly your fault. But they must state this.

 

Should I write to Hamptons as well asking for the same. Or should I use no “Assignments”, “Default Notice” etc to my day in court?

 

I think there is enough to be disputed here. And if by any chance it isn't going your way then you request the judge orders both the original creditor and the DCA, signed agreements (not reconstituted), copies of default notices, notices of assignment, statements for the duration of the account to show excess charges and possibly missold PPI (are you sure there is no PPI ?).(bear in mind that if missold PPI is proven it brings the whole agreement into question)...if they do provide an agreement then you should check that the interest rate matches up to what the statements say. If it doesn't then they could be scuppered. As the prescribed terms will be incorrect....

 

I think I am a bit more key up now.

 

I have added your Judge Boggis text and I will go the court and get my statement sworn in.

 

Do I need to do anything else????? Or should I use no “Assignments”, “Default Notice” etc to my day in court?

 

Kind Regards

 

DesignTime

[42man]

For the SAR to Lloyds, then once the 40 calendar days is up then you need to write a LETTER BEFORE ACTION enclosing a copy of the original SAR (send recorded) giving them a futher 14 days to provide the items that are missing. - an example of one is here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?178660 again do the same to the others if they have failed to provide nothing against what was requested in your SAR. Remember a CCA request is different it is a legal request just for the agreement. If they fail to provide the further paperwork after the 14 days then you should report them to the ICO. You have already mentioned the assignment and the default in your defence.

[DesignTime]

Thanks for all your help 42Man

 

Kind Regards

 

DesignTime

[42man]

Just understand what is being said and do spend some time reading around these forums....if need be then you can tell the judge that you have made every reasonable effort to obtain the relevant paperwork under theData Protection Act and the Consumer Credit Act and none of the companies have been forthcoming....as I said if the judge doesn't seem on your side then get the judge to order the other side to produce ALL paperwork, notice of assignments to prove that it is capable of being assigned under UK law, the default notice, a deed of assignment too, the agreement (and any variations) and termination and statements for the WHOLE duration of the agreement.

[DesignTime]

My Day in Court (Round 1 Win to me!)

 

 

I turned up to the court wit 30 minutes to spare. I registered with the usher and sat down within 5 minutes a man in suit was asking for me, it was Lowell locally hired solicitor.

 

He had no paper work and asked if I had a copy of the State Demand and my statement. I was reluctant at first to show anything and I thought how disorganised. I hesitated but he said it would save time, he would not have ask for an adornment (I would of objected to this anyway) and Lowell were going to withdraw with no costs anyway.

 

He read my statement and agreed with the simple fact they did not have a signed agreement so they could not take the SD forward. He said a few interesting things like they were advice. The problem is he came across as sleazy lying git!

 

He made these points so if any one can give me advice before round two starts:

 

• They had not been able to find the signed agreement. But they were still looking through all the records on microfiche. This would not be an issue as they can reconstitute one. He referred to Carey v HSBC Bank Plc [2009].

 

• He talked about Carey v HSBC Bank Plc [2009] and how it meant that fighting a case with regards to a signed agreement would be a case loser.

 

• Lowell will probable now go down the County Court route.

 

• Vale threats I would lose and it would be better to negotiate a settlement for a few pennies for every pound.

 

• He said the fact about not supplying the Default Notice was a red herring and they did not need to serve it by recorded delivery.

 

• He said he had no paper work when we first met but whilst telling me about the Default Notice he mentioned they had signed proof of delivery this rang alarm bells for me (lying git).

 

 

I think if I had not turned up the solicitor would of nailed me to the floor! He kept making and receiving calls to Lowell.

 

I think I may of screwed up by excepting there withdrawal.

 

Technically they failed to supplied any evidence, Default Notice or meet my SAR and CCA repeated requests but because they dropped the case there is no comeback on them.

 

I also think feel he was deliberately trying to convince me to move away from the Default Notice issue? He tried to come across as a friend. My wife gave him the evils and also thought he was a lying **** bag.

 

I think the letters will start again next week and the home visits.

 

We shall see.

 

Any advice or opinions on what to do next would be greatly appreciated thanks.

[42man]

Well done. What a pity you couldn't have let the judge decide and claimed your costs. As at today's standing they had provided nothing whatsoever so were in default of your request...Carey case is correct but there are a number of other issues with regards to agreements. And turning up in court with no paperwork whatsoever would not have stood well with a county court judge, who is likely to have thrown out the demand anyway....I can assure you that he may have been friendly in the waiting room, but it would have been a different issue in the court room. I always say that you should listen and not say anything in response...as it has been known that a solicitor will get you to admit everything in the waiting room and then tell the judge, and of course they know court protocol very well !!....I would still ask you to report them to the OFT too.

[DesignTime]

He was a real slime ball.

 

The more I think about it the more I realize how he was trying to find out stuff.

 

The classic was his opening line are Mr john Blogs as I have two cases another with David Blogs they got mixed up! (Trying to confirm my full name).

 

Asking details about the case tying to get a confirmation the dept is mine. (I said nothing)

 

Trying to help me with misleading advice! Telling me he had not seen the case but new intimate details like the fact they had not even supplied a brake down of the charges.

 

Why would he help me? It stinks. It was more like an interrogation to find out information to report back to Lowlifes.

 

He was defiantly a very doggy bloke.

[Guest]

hi dt, well done. (as you have shown, a creditors frivolous actions can be successfully challenged!)

i had thought that a copy of original signed agreement was still required re enforcement for agreements entered into prior to the CCA 2006, despite recent cases?

Edited January 6, 2011 by Ford

[DesignTime]

As I understand they can now reconstitute the agreement and it doesn't have to be signed.

 

See Carey v HSBC Bank Plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) (23 December 2009)

Carey v HSBC Bank Plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) (23 December 2009).pdf