Car taken in error - a Civil Matter ?

[Tony P]

If you win but the Defendant is ordered to pay what they have already offered you or less, you could be ordered by the court to pay some or all of the Defendants' costs.

 

Is this not just for the Defendants additional costs that are incurred from the date of the "WP Save as to costs" offer letter onwards?

ie. All the Defendants costs up to that point are accepted by the Defendant under that letter?

[sailor sam]

Good point Tony. The OP needs to consider the costs so far in making the claim and any 'subsiquential losses' he has incurred. As I say, he needs face to face professional advice from here on. Personally I would probably reject the offer because the reasons given in the letter seem to stack only in the defendants' favour. The solicitor obviously believes that the claim is valid and is simply attempting to mitigate his client's costs. Potentially this will cost him the best part of £2k if the claim succeeds.

[peugeot306]

the claim amount £1550 is made up of: car £1350, contents £125 and a court fee £75

 

the contents were a brand new computer component (stolen) and netgear router (badly damaged). the true value of the excellent condition car was £1550 (glass's used car price guide) at the time of the incident.

 

i have also incurred some other costs (letters, fuel etc.) plus the tax disc which was missing that are'nt included with the claim amount which probably add upto about £75.

Edited February 8, 2012 by peugeot306

[sailor sam]

the claim amount is made up of: car £1350.00, contents £125.00 and a court fee £75.00

 

the contents were a brand new computer component (stolen) and netgear router (badly damaged). the true value of the excellent condition car was £1550 (glass's used car price guide) at the time of the incident.

 

Did you also claim interest?

[peugeot306]

no i didnt claim interest, at a recent hearing (for directions) the judge did ask me that but i replied something like 'no i just want what i'm owed'. i didnt realise about that or know then how much that would be.

[sailor sam]

It is 8% of your claim (pre-costs) from the date the debt originated (the day they took your car) until the date of judgement or payment. It accumilates on a daily basis betwwen the two. Oops!

[peugeot306]

i was just quoted £50 - £75 for a solicitor to draft up a letter (instead of mine) and around £150 for an hour meeting if i want.

 

i'm not sure if the c.a.b. can be of any use and its proving very difficult to obtain free legal advice so far. the only local legal advice centre washed their hands of me some time ago, i believe this was because they felt they could no longer help me and i think i had also used up my 'credits'. i did contact them yesterday but they confirmed they cannot provide me with any advice as they are no longer instructed in this matter.

 

i'd prefer to settle out of court, i would accept an offer of somewhere between £1000 - £1550. i'm not sure if the letter i've made up is ok or not and wether paying for a solicitor to help is really worth it. i'm a bit stuck at the moment i think.

[sailor sam]

Tricky then. Anyone on here can tell you what they would do but there is no way of knowing how qualified their advice is. My gut feeling is that they are trying it on. No-one can really for see how the judge will look at this letter if it is presented to argue about costs. I would be arguing that the defendant hsa already had opportunities to bring about a compromise or settlement prior to the claim being made at court. And after that, mediation should of been taken. (What happend there btw?). The fact of the matter is the the defendant made no sufficient checks in the respect of title to the car before taking it. As was previously mentionerd; what if it had been a Bentley or something? You can't just go about removing cars with no proof of title available. To me, that is taking without the owner's consent but hey ho, the police say its a 'civil matter'. (One day maybe someone will have the balls to challenge them officially over this). Clearly the defendent is now of the opinion he will loose the case so he has consulted a solicitor who no doubt also believes it's a non-winner (otherwise you would not have this offer). With a good prepared argument I think that your case is very strong and you will get the full amount because you are sueing a business so I don't see how or why there is now a need to consider any financial affects on the defendant unless he has gone bankrupt or something.

 

I would see what others come in with but if it was me, I would want to take advice before throwing £550 away when I think you don't deserve to.

[Tony P]

My own feeling is they know they are on a loser and, as Sam said, trying it on a bit.

 

In the market place if you want something you adopt physcology and bidding. You make an offer biased toward yourself - but seldom is that your final offer.

 

Here they think they are on a loser and what they want is to limit is the amount of their payout - because they think it could get worse for them in terms of cost/time/reputation.

 

If I found myself in a similar position I would not give an inch to them. But that's me - I enjoy a good fight, especially when I know I have the advantage!

 

 

Interest is 8% straight - not compounded. For your claim of £1,550 it runs at £0.34 per day for the total number of days to Judgement. The Judgement then dictates the duly rate thereafter until full payment. So as they took the car in Feb 2009 there would be over £370 accumulated interest so far - plus interest is claimable on the Court Fee etc.

 

An offer of £1,000 all up seems very stingy and somewhat speculative.

 

Your call....!

[peugeot306]

ok it may go to court if i reject their offer i understand, but i do strongly believe that the claim amount is worth it (along with the proof i have) - not including any interest.

 

at the recent hearing (for directions) i remember the judge saying to this defendant that he ''hoped not see him again and that its settled before it came to a final hearing (due approx. in april, 4 hours estimated)" - which may mean something?

 

i'd appreciate the help with writing up a response letter as it looks as though i'm on my own with this, the c.a.b. cant see me until the 22nd of this month.

Edited February 8, 2012 by peugeot306

[slick132]

Hi Peugeot,

 

Personally I think that now is not the time to spend out on a solicitor as I doubt you will make a net gain. Any increase in the defendant's offer may well be offset by what you have to pay your sol'r.

 

It would have made more sense to get legal advice before Filing the claim so that you claimed for the full market value of the car, plus contents, plus Statutory Interest. However, that didn't happen so you have to deal with this as best you can.

 

I'd reject the current offer and reply saying something like:-

 

Dear Mr xxxxxx,

 

Re: Case Number: XXXXXXX

 

Thank you for your letter of 3rd February but I reject your client's offer.

 

My claim is very reasonable with regard to the car's value and the value of other items lost or damaged.

 

Your client had every opportunity to negotiate a settlement before I filed my claim. He chose, however, to ignore me and this has put me to considerable time, stress and inconvenience.

 

If your client is willing to offer £1500, I will accept this in full and final settlement and discontinue my claim, on receipt of cleared funds.

 

I await your response.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Of course, it is your decision about taking proper legal advice, and what settlement figure you are willing to accept.

 

[sailor sam]

That seems sensible to me.

[Old Snowy]

Might I suggest a slightly less emotive version as follows?

 

Dear Sir

 

Re: Peugeot306 v. AMR, Bloggshire County Court, 4 April 2012 Case No XZXZXZXZX

 

Thank you for your letter of offer dated 3 February 2012.

 

I reject the offer as it stands on the grounds that it inadequately reflects the value of my vehicle at the time it was removed by your client nor that of the value of the contents and my consequential losses.

 

I quantify my principal losses as follows:

Glasses Guide shows the value of my vehicle as £1350.

The items lost (a brand new computer component and a Netgear router) together valued at £125.

Court fee £75.

 

In seeking an expeditious resolution I am prepared to waive the outstanding balance of the vehicle excise disc; my consequential losses and my entitlement to interest. I am prepared to accept £1550 in full and final settlement of this matter.

 

I await your response.

 

Yours faithfully,

[peugeot306]

thank you for those letters you've made up there guys, cheers.

 

now there is something that ive just realised, i'm wondering what could happen with regard to the other clients/defendants involved, who this solicitor also represents*.

 

for instance if i do end up accepting an offer from mr XXXXX and then discontinue the claim, could the other defendants then claim for any costs from me?

 

*two of the defendants are man (making offer) & wife, another is a ltd company (which the man was director of).

Edited February 9, 2012 by peugeot306

[sailor sam]

Ahh, I had forgotten about the co-defendent. So we don't really know if this a joint offer or not. I think you need to find out what the co-defendent's position is as well.

 

This is where you need professional advice.

[peugeot306]

ok, would the following letter be an appropriate worded response implying i understand the offer to be a joint offer:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

RE: CASE NUMBER: XXXX, XXXX XXXXX -v- XXXX XXXXX

YOUR CLIENTS: MAN, WIFE (& ltd company?)

 

Thank you for your letter of offer dated 3rd February 2012.

 

I reject the offer as it stands on the grounds that it inadequately reflects the value of my vehicle at the time it was collected nor that of the value of the contents and my consequential losses. Your clients had every opportunity to negotiate a settlement before I filed my claim. They chose, however, to ignore me and this has put me to considerable time, stress and inconvenience. My claim is very reasonable with regard to the car's value and the value of other items lost and damaged.

I quantify my principal losses as follows:

 

Glasses Guide shows the value of my vehicle as £1555

Items lost/damaged together valued at £125

Court fee £75

 

In seeking an expeditious resolution I am prepared to waive the outstanding balance of the vehicle excise disc, my consequential losses and my entitlement to interest. If your clients are willing to offer £1500, I will accept this in Full and final settlement and discontinue my claim, on receipt of cleared funds.

 

I await your response.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

in the solicitors offer letter i recieved it does not mention the ltd company as a client (only man & wife), even though solicitor said at the recent hearing (for directions) that she represents all three (man & wife were present, man is a director of the ltd company).

 

the wife was director of a ltd. company (dissolved) supposedly t/a the business at the exact time of the incident.

 

really, what to do regarding the co-defendants positions i do not know, maybe i should just send the above letter and see what response i get.. do i state the ltd. company in this letter i possibly send?

Edited February 9, 2012 by peugeot306

[Tony P]

Not my field here - but I would think it is implicit that you are accepting settlement/dropping 'your Claim' totally.

You have one claim, for the £1,550 or so - but the claim is against several Defendants.

 

Once your claim is dropped/settled in full, albeit by one Defendant, that is the end of your claim against one and all. There is a principle that you cannot recover the same debt twice.

 

However I understand your concern.

 

If non-assenting Defendant(s) try to counter-claim for their costs of defending your dropped claim, they should be referred to the Defendant admitting liability by settling - therefore being the cause.

 

Those closer to this branch of Law will confirm. carify or scold me.

[slick132]

Hi Peugeot,

 

You need to seek confirmation that the offer is made on behalf of the co-defendants, whom you say the sol'r is jointly representing.

 

You also need to stick to what you've claimed. You mention in your letter in post #91 that the Glasses Guide shows £1555 whereas you have claimed only £1350. I don't know why you did this but assume you were just trying to be reasonable.

 

So I would suggest the slightly revised version which includes Old Snowy's good input :-

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

RE: CASE NUMBER: XXXX, XXXX XXXXX -v- XXXX XXXXX

YOUR CLIENTS: MAN and WIFE; ALSO xxxxx LTD

 

Thank you for your letter of offer dated 3rd February 2012.

 

Please confirm that this offer is made on behalf of all co-defendants named in the claim.

 

I reject the offer as it stands on the grounds that it inadequately reflects the value of my vehicle at the time it was collected nor that of the value of the contents and my consequential losses. Your clients had every opportunity to negotiate a settlement before I filed my claim. They chose, however, to ignore me and this has put me to considerable time, stress and inconvenience. My claim is very reasonable with regard to the car's value and the value of other items lost and damaged.

 

I quantify my principal losses as follows:

 

Glasses Guide shows the value of my (excellent condition) vehicle as £1555, reduced by me to avoid arguments about the condition of the car - £1350.

Items lost/damaged together valued at £125.

Court fee £75.

Total £1550

 

In seeking an expeditious resolution I chose to waive the outstanding balance of the vehicle excise disc, my consequential losses and my entitlement to interest.

 

If your clients are willing to offer £1500, I will accept this in Full and final settlement and discontinue my claim, on receipt of cleared funds.

 

I await your response.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[peugeot306]

i've recieved a response regarding my counter offer letter:

 

''.. We have instructions from our client, Mr XXXX, that he accepts your counter offer of £1550 in full and final settlement of this matter. Payment will be made within 28 days and notification of this agreement will be brought to the Court's attention.

 

Please be advised that acceptance of the counteroffer is on the basis that our client does not accept liability.

 

We have also been instructed to convey his concerns that the matter has been so debated in various internet forums.

 

Please confirm the details for payment as soon as possible. ..''

 

 

so i guess i now need to respond with my payment details,

 

i'm unsure how i should properly proceed exactly (notify the court/defendants?) now that i've been offered the full claim amount. also, who is or is anyone liable for the courts fees/costs?

Edited March 10, 2012 by peugeot306

[sailor sam]

Well they are. You indicated this in your letter? You should now write back and indicate that you will discontinue your claim when you have received cleared funds of £1755 which include court costs you have paid and lost/damaged items.

[slick132]

Hi Peugeot,

 

Excellent news.

 

Your proposed settlement figure included court fees of £75, so the £1,550 (which is what you say they are now offering) is the final figure.

 

Write confirming you accept this and provide bank payment details and say, once you receive full settlement, you will discontinue your action.

 

Looks like you've nearly won. Let us know when they settle.

 

[Anus Horribilis]

i've recieved a response regarding my counter offer letter:

 

''.. We have instructions from our client, Mr XXXX, that he accepts your counter offer of £1550 in full and final settlement of this matter. Payment will be made within 28 days and notification of this agreement will be brought to the Court's attention.

 

Please be advised that acceptance of the counteroffer is on the basis that our client does not accept liability.

 

We have also been instructed to convey his concerns that the matter has been so debated in various internet forums.

 

Please confirm the details for payment as soon as possible. ..''

 

This is a good result - I wouldn't hesitate to take it, in your position.

[Tony P]

''We have also been instructed to convey his concerns that the matter has been so debated in various internet forums. "

 

Yes - dashed annoying that people get told of their rights !

 

OK, their initial error was no doubt unintentional but their lack of care should reflect on them, not you.

 

Well done.

[sailor sam]

Hi Peugeot,

 

Excellent news.

 

Your proposed settlement figure included court fees of £75, so the £1,550 (which is what you say they are now offering) is the final figure.

 

Write confirming you accept this and provide bank payment details and say, once you receive full settlement, you will discontinue your action.

 

Looks like you've nearly won. Let us know when they settle.

 

 

That would depend on which letter the OP sent. If he sent the one as per suggested by Old Snowy (post 88) then yes.

[peugeot306]

if i understand correctly, i should write to the court and defendants with my letter of discontinuance after i recieve the payment.

 

''.. who is or is anyone liable for the courts fees/costs? ''

 

by that i meant any costs the case has incurred which possibly the court may order somebody to pay (?), because the case is now being settled out of court (and the defendant who alone is paying does not accept liability).

Edited March 12, 2012 by peugeot306