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HSBC NONSENSE - Final Demand and 'Set Off' rule...? Please help.

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Hi All,

 

I have been reading through other posts on here and the FAQ section, but there is a LOT of material out there (says alot about the shameful state of HSBC customer service) so please forgive me if I'm repeating old questions. :|

 

I have three accounts with HSBC, one current, a second current which they named a Household account for all of my bills and DDs and one savings. At the beginning of the year my Household Account went over it's overdraft limit and I was charged the standard £47 the following month, which then put me over the limit again, thus beginning the snowball effect of charges being placed upon charges month after month, resulting in, to date £510 worth of charges for 2010 (One month I was charged a total of £175 on both accounts, the cost of these charges having caused me to become overdrawn on my other account also).

 

Once the Household Account became totally stricken, I moved all SOs and DDs to the other account and contacted HSBC. I explained that I could not afford these crippling charges month after month because I am a single parent living on benefits. Obviously they refused to stop the charges, and we came to an agreement that I would pay £3 per week for the time being, as that was all I could afford, being already in a substantial amount of debt. This was in July I think, but unfortunately I didn't make a note of it (big mistake I'm guessing...)

 

In the meantime, my son has this school trip coming up that he desperately wants to go on, so I save all of the maintenance his father gives me (a pittance!) for a few months until we have £150 built up in my savings account. This is my secong big mistake as on wednesday I realise it has all gone and see that HSBC have merrily helped themselves to it without notification, to put towards the household account. I looked it up on the internet and found out about this evil 'rule of set off,' and realise there is nothing I can do about it. :mad2:

 

Then today, to add insult to pretty grievous injury, I receive a final demand for full repayment of £709.68 within 18 days otherwise action will be taken against me. I phoned the collections department (mercifully UK based so I had a better chance of fully understanding the communication) and was told that unless I made an offer to pay they would take action. I said as far as I was aware I already HAD made an offer of £3 a week which had been accepted back in July and the situation was unchanged. I was then informed that this had been a short term arrangement, and that because the debt had remained with collections for however many days (I can't remember) this agreement was no longer acceptable. Then when I checked the SO had stopped a couple of weeks back. I was NOT made aware that this arrangement had a time limit.

 

She asked if there was anything I could do to restore the account and I pointed out that if they refunded the charges levied against it for 2010 then I would be back within my agreed limits. Obviously this was not agreed to. Why would they? It's not as if my friendly, local high street bank are actually there to help me is it? :evil:

 

The upshot is that the payment I can afford is unacceptable to them so I am being passed over to DCA. This is a scary prospect - has anyone else experienced this and can they tell me exactly what to expect?

 

I also remonstrated with her about the maintenance money (proving that it WAS maintenance money by the dates, amounts and payee details) and was told that they have done something to the account which means nothing can be taken out of it. I refused to be fobbed off by this nonsense and pointed out that they are sticking to unfair procedures put into place by themselves. It's not that they can't return the money, it's that they are not prepared to and there is a difference.

 

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

 

I gather from reading on here that if I write to to the bank and start procedures to have the charges refunded that my account will be in dispute and as such cannot be dealt with by DCA. Is this correct? And is it also right that once in dispute the charges will stop?

 

I've looked in the library but cannot find the exact letter template to send the bank - please could someone tell me which one to use?

 

Also, do you think there is any point in complaining about the stolen maintenance money to the FOS?

 

Last question, if I claim financial hardship (which is provable and completely true) and set about trying to reclaim my charges, am I likely to end up in court having to argue my case against an HSBC appoinyed barrister who knows the law much better than I do?

 

Sorry about all the questions but I'm really confused as to which is the best route to go down.

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Wennabee

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PS Have also approached Halifax, RBS and Natwest and applied online for basic accounts to have my benefits paid into in case HSBC feel like helping themselves again. I have argued the toss before and had one-off charges refunded using my right of appropriation (the benefits are the amount the law says I need to live on per week and therefore to take charges out of them is unlawful) but not sure I can face going down that route time after time. Currently waiting to hear from said banks....

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HSBC very scarey DCA use Metropoliton Services & DG solicitors (HSBC in house services) very scarey, another words little cubicle in an office space one on one side of table the other opposite, do not be scared is threatogram time for them, read other HSBC threads on here, I would suggest make your £3.00 payments keeping account of monies sent, as you are then showing willingness to co-operate, they will try and lie etc to get you to pay more, and eventually ask for I&E, do not send one as I did and ended up with NCCS summons (within 14 days) which was stayed because they could not get paperwork right I understand, others will I am sure will advise further., to give you an idea they sent letter to me to say a CCJ was obtained against me, Northampton said when? they had not, do not talk to them on the phone all in recorded letters & keep file.


:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:

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That's great, thanks Mike770. From now on I will refuse to discuss any matter over the telephone, and will send any correspondance recorded delivery.

 

Have also reinstated the £3 weekly SO to show willing. As with many others on here, I am happy to pay the agreed overdraft, but NOT the continuing charges.

 

Sorry to be a dumbass, but what is an I&E? Been looking on here for a list of abbreviations but no luck so far....

This site is very encouraging and a fabulous source of info, however I find it a little tricky to navigate.

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I &E Income & expenditure sheet


:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:

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Hi wennabee , welcome to the forum :)

 

Unfortunately you have learned the hard way that HSBC are an unscrupulous shower , with no thought for the welfare of their customers ...

 

You have had good advice there from Mike 770 who has also been down that road .

 

Iwould just add that , to stop them from plundering your money as soon as it hits your accounts ,,you should consider opening a Parachute account and having your maintenance and other income paid into that . This is a basic account with a bank which is in no way connected with HSBC .e.g. Co-op , Barclays, Natwest , . That way they cannot use the Right of Set-off to nick your money , and you can pay them whatever you think you can afford .

 

If you carry on paying them £3.00 per week make the SO from a bank which they can't cancel it from ..... i.e. your parachute bank..

 

That will also prove to any court that you were willing to address your debt , but on your terms ...... and I've yet to hear of a court which will hit you for a payment agreement of more than you can afford ....the courts are very lenient when it comes to working out how much you need to live on ....and the banks know that ...... which is why they try to bully you into paying more than you can afford by threatening you ........ don't let them do it !

 

You could also try , if you can definitely prove it , to complain to the Ombudsman about them nicking your Maintenance money ........ they're not supposed to do that ........ but(in my humble opinion) it'll only work if you can prove you told them in advance ,in writing , that that is what it was ......

 

Just one last word about the Parachute account .......... whatever you do , don't go overdrawn on it !

 

Parachute Account

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/13832-do-you-need-parachute.html


Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Hi All,

Since I last posted this, things have got worse. HSBC closed down my savings account with no warning and didn't even bother to write after the fact. I had to phone them when I went online and realised the account was no longer there. This is a disgusting excuse for customer service.

 

Then I received a letter from Metropolitan telling me they noted with disappointment that I hadn't responded to their previous correspondance. NONSENSE!! That was the first I had heard from them. They went on at me for being ex-directory and said they had verified that I lived at this addresss.... Big Brother or what??

 

I wrote to them explaining that the first letter had not arrived and pointing out that I would be sending everything recorded delivery to avoid such mishaps in the future.

I also explained that I am a single, unwaged parent on extremely limited means and outlined my proposed repayment agreement. I pointed out that I was not prepared to give them my number, or to phone a premium rate line, so the matter would have to be conducted by letter. This was sent first class recorded on Thursday but due to the adverse weather may not have arrived yet.

 

I have today got another letter expressing disappointment at my continued failure to contact them and demanding that I phone them on their premium rate number. Again I am not prepared to do this.

They ask me to confirm when full repayment will be made and say that they intend to issue a warrant of execution resulting in Bailiffs visiting my property to recover goods.

 

Can they do this since I have made a repayment offer?

 

Also, I see from the letter template library that I can write the following:

'Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.'

 

I am unsure if this applies to Bailiffs though since they would be acting on behalf of the courts and this seems to be aimed at direct representatives of DCA.

 

Currently drafting a reply letter - please can someone advise me on my rights? This bailiff thing seems a bit extreme since at no point have I said I am unwilling to pay.

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Hi wennabee,

 

This is scare tactics usual bully boy stuff from Metro ... send off that letter you quoted above , re-iterating the fact that you have made them an offer ....... send it Recorded Delivery ... and keep a copy which you can produce to a court if necessary ..

#

No court is going to penalise you if you have shown willingness to pay ... and Metro knows this ... they won't go anywhere near a court .... it's a ploy to frighten you ... don't let them do it ... and they can't send bailiffs in without a court order ,which they won't get .....

 

You're doing all the right things ..... let them sweat ..... the ball is in their court to accept or reject your offer ....


Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Thanks Johnnymitch, writing it as we speak. One other question though, underneath the template letter it says remember to print your name and not sign. Why is this? the last letter i sent I signed and had name printed underneath - is that the wrong way to do it?

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It has been known (not that I'm suggesting for a minute that Metro would do it !:roll: ) for signatures to appear on other documents which haven't been signed by the customer ...........

 

So ,best to either print your name , or make your signature distinctive in some way i.e with a loop or stroke which is not usually there , so that , if it did (inadvertently :shock:) turn up elsewhere , you could indentify it as a copy ....


Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Hello Again,

I have had another threatening letter today from these Aholes telling me I have to repay in full or their solicitors will be contacting me. They have totally ignored the letter I sent them recorded delivery.

I called them witheld and spoke to the most obnoxious little idiot in the world who denied all knowledge of my letter and told me that because I had been ignoring them they were getting their solicitors onto me. What do I do now? I don't want to discuss anything with them on their premium rate number, because in my experience with HSBC, you can't trust them an inch, but they ignore letters, even when sent recorded delivery.

Please can someone help me? I'm a single mum with absolutely nothing and I'm starting to lose my nerve... :(

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I am very surprised that you still have an account with HSBC that you use or have you one with another bank not connected to HSBC? if youa re still with HSBC get a parachute account as soon as possible. Can you prove that any of the money that they have taken is benefit money?

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Hi Surfer,

Yes, I have opened a parachute account with Halifax (the only ones who would have me after the ruins HSBC have made of my credit rating).

I'm in the process of swapping everything over.

They haven't taken any benefit money (they did once before and I played merry hell until I got it back) but they did help themselves to my son's maintenance money and flatly refused to pay it back.

At the mo I'm more concerned about these solicitor threats...

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Very scarrey, D.G. solicitors (the people on the otherside of the table) keep eveything in writing and use Parachute Account from now on I would suggest make sure Recorded Delivery is used keep copies etc.


:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:

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Guest jsa12
Then I received a letter from Metropolitan telling me they noted with disappointment that I hadn't responded to their previous correspondance.

 

i have been writing to metropolitan and they are not signing for my recorded delivery letters,they then reply they have not heard from me,they are being underhanded and evasive.

 

Unfortunately you have learned the hard way that HSBC are an unscrupulous shower , with no thought for the welfare of their customers ...

 

this looks to be very true,they are behaving very deceitfully.

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what about firing off the notice of appropriation letter

with regard to the benefits and them using them to pay their charges etcetc

 

i seem to remember someone here got everything back + int on the charges

 

try our advanced search top right.

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Hi DX,

The one time they had my benefits I got them straight back by quoting the right of appropriation thing. The money that they took from me most recently was my son's maintenance. I have no idea how to get it back.

I think the main issue here however is that they are not signing for letters sent recorded delivery, then claiming that their correspondance is being ignored. As I said before, I flatly refuse to discuss this matter over the telephone since this company have proven time and time again that they cannot be trusted.

So, any ideas where we go from here? I feel so powerless as an individual up against a big corporation. There must be something I can do though?

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I would say that the maintenance money is a benefit as it is not classed as true income. I woudl chnace by arm on it and send a Letter of Appropriation anyway as your son is being deprived and disadvantaged. Can you prove it is mainteance money. i.e. paid in by CRA or you have a court order for the amount. to be paid?

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Guest jsa12

I think the main issue here however is that they are not signing for letters sent recorded delivery, then claiming that their correspondance is being ignored.

 

if you are referring to metropolitan they appear to have ceased signing for recorded mail,nine or so months ago letters sent to them were being signed for at the hfc.however in anticipation of this move i sent a duplicate letter first class standard and made a note of posting for my records'.

 

this will be used in evidence in case of further legal action they are fond of threatening on their part,avoid talking to these people on the phone,they will try and dictate the course of events as they see fit and to your detriment.

 

for a major high street bank this conduct is disgraceful,hiding behind a name while all staff are in fact hsbc employees.

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To all people who are having recorded letters ignored by HSBC's INTERNAL collections department.

 

If this is common practice then you should complain to OFT as this practice is circumventing OFT's regulations on using the customers preferred method of contact and is no doubt an unfair commercial practice breaching the Consumer Protection against Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR 2008 ).

 

Enough complaints will start an investigation into these practices.

 

To Wannabee

 

DO NOT let these parasites scare you - In this situation court would be a blessing - It is not the big scary thing you see on TV - It is a small room with you, a judge, Them and their solicitor. Once you show that you are doing your best to pay the judge will become very sympathetic to you and annoyed with them for the scare tacticts they have been using.

 

So DO NOT WORRY yourself into an early grave - they know that the above is true they have been through it many times and that is why they want to avoid it by scaring you.

 

Stand up - be counted and say "I'd love to go to court where I can show that your practices are in breach of the CPUTR 2008"

 

 

The CPUTR 2008 has no requirement for you to show that you have suffered by these unfair actions.

 

 

If you read back through all the posts above there is a general theme - TREAT THESE IDLE THREATS WITH THE CONTEMPT WHICH THEY DESERVE

Edited by rdm2006

HTH (Hope This Helps) RDM2006

 

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Guest jsa12
To all people who are having recorded letters ignored by HSBC's INTERNAL collections department.

 

If this is common practice then you should complain to OFT as this practice is circumventing OFT's regulations on using the customers preferred method of contact and is no doubt an unfair commercial practice breaching the Consumer Protection against Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR 2008 ).

 

Enough complaints will start an investigation into these practices.

 

To Wannabee

 

DO NOT let these parasites scare you - In this situation court would be a blessing - It is not the big scary thing you see on TV - It is a small room with you, a judge, Them and their solicitor. Once you show that you are doing your best to pay the judge will become very sympathetic to you and annoyed with them for the scare tacticts they have been using.

 

So DO NOT WORRY yourself into an early grave - they know that the above is true they have been through it many times and that is why they want to avoid it by scaring you.

 

Stand up - be counted and say "I'd love to go to court where I can show that your practices are in breach of the CPUTR 2008"

 

 

The CPUTR 2008 has no requirement for you to show that you have suffered by these unfair actions.

 

 

If you read back through all the posts above there is a general theme - TREAT THESE IDLE THREATS WITH THE CONTEMPT WHICH THEY DESERVE

 

yes it does appear to fall foul of "unfair commercial practice",it can be downloaded from here click on "print options" and download the cputr regulations as well as the table of contents'.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1277/contents/made

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Hi All,

Many thanks for your encouraging replies.

I have today sent another letter to Metropolitan quoting CPUTR 2008 and making a third offer of payment. This will be sent recorded AND standard with proof of postage. Since they are an HSBC internal collections department, surely they have to abide by the HSBC t&cs which clearly state that '...we will try to use your preferred method of contact wherever possible...'

Secondly a letter to HSBC asserting my right of appropriation over the maintenance they took as part of their rule of set-off. I've also quoted their t&c's which state they they will tell you why and when it has been done. They did nothing of the sort.

I don't know if any of this will get me anywhere, but it is a small step towards empowerment which can only be a good thing.

Many thanks to everyone for their continued support in this matter.

I shall of course update you in due course.

Happy New Year :) I'm off to close my last HSBC account now parachute is fully operational. X

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Hi Wennabee ..Happy new year to you !

 

Just to say ..you're doing absolutely the right thing by not letting them get to you ..... as for Metro sticking to any T&Cs - that is rich ,..... they don't even stick to the law for DCAs....... just a cretinous bullying shower IMHO and HSBC should be ashamed to own them ......

 

As I said before , as long as you have shown willing to repay at what you can afford ,.... no court is going to fault you for it ... and as JSA12 says ... they won't go there .... a court would crucify them and they know it !

 

And you have nothing to lose by trying to get back what they took from your son's allowance ......

keep the pressure on them .. and use the Ombudsman if necessary ..

 

Carry on with what you're doing .. it may take time , but you'll get there ...... btw ... well done on getting your parachute account up and running .... that does empower you, they can't take money they're not entitled to .......and you can get on with your life ...

 

And of course , you know now to come back and ask if you need help .

Hope 2011 is better for you ............ :)


Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Hi Jonnymitch - Happy New year to you too and many thanks for such a positive and upbeat reply! The support I've been given on here really has been amazing - I would be a nervous wreck by now if I hadn't found you guys :) :) :)

I'm going to sit tight now and await their next move with interest... x

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:) That's the way to do it , wennabee.... just take it a step at a time , let them do all the huffing and puffing .... they'll get nowhere if you don't let them hassle you ....and (usually) they'll eventually give up and go and pick on some other unsuspecting customer .....

 

Now you have the power ! :)


Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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