ross and roberts do it again !!!!!

[babybell123]

Hi im writing on my behalf of my father in law who is in trouble with ross and roberts .

 

Basically my partner his son got a car and his dad registered it in his name then my partner got two parking tickets in this car which he has not paid.

 

So it went from the council to Ross and roberts and they visited my father in laws address on saturady morning now my mother and father in law are both quite ill his wife has serious diabetes and he himself is suffering from dementia so when Ross and roberts called my father in law not knowing any different let them in and then we got a phone call from my mother in law saying that Ross and roberts are in the house and they are going to take there stuff, so my partner has gone there straight away and found the bailiff in his parents porch way and wouldnt move. So to cut a long story short my partner accepted liability for the debt that wasin his dads name and the bailiff took a check for £490 from his mum and then levied the goods in the house and my partner signed the agreements.

 

Now we dont know wether or not the cheque will go through the account as both are pensioners and dont really have that kind of money but we needed to do something to get them off our backs while we try adn sort this out.

 

So I then started by writing a complaint to the local council and one to ross and roberts themselves explaining that my father in law and mother in law are classed as vulnerable and are willing to pay directly to the council but not the bailffs fees on top which are almost triple. So these were sent off one to ross and roberts a online complaint to the local council and one to the chief director. And the afternoon this is the response we had back from the council

 

They are basically saying that my partner had along enough time to repay the fines and that he had taken reponsbility for the debt that it noe falls down to him and that the council have spokeen to the bailiff who has confirmed that my partner has taken liability. and that the bailiff took great care when speaking to his mum and dad.

 

now i would like to know if there is anything we can do so that we can only pay the fine owed and not the bailff fees that are triple as my mother and father in law cannot afford this and neither can we as one is for £722 and the other £327 which is alot of money please help

[fork-it]

Hi im writing on my behalf of my father in law who is in trouble with ross and roberts .

 

Basically my partner his son got a car and his dad registered it in his name then my partner got two parking tickets in this car which he has not paid.

 

So it went from the council to Ross and roberts and they visited my father in laws address on saturady morning now my mother and father in law are both quite ill his wife has serious diabetes and he himself is suffering from dementia

 

Contact the council and ask that enforcement action must cease on the grounds they are a "vulnerable household" and send a copy of this to the council to support your request. http://www.dca.gov.uk/enforcement/agents02.htm#part10 if you needfurther help Z2K is a charity supporting vulnerable households: http://www.z2k.org/supporting-vulnerable-households if the council is uncooperative, passes you off with its in the hands of the bailiffs or is vexatious then you can make a complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman.

 

 

so when Ross and roberts called my father in law not knowing any different let them in and then we got a phone call from my mother in law saying that Ross and roberts are in the house and they are going to take there stuff, so my partner has gone there straight away and found the bailiff in his parents porch way and wouldnt move. So to cut a long story short my partner accepted liability for the debt that wasin his dads name and the bailiff took a check for £490 from his mum and then levied the goods in the house and my partner signed the agreements.

 

You might want to contact your bank and put a hold on that cheque and consult the law setting bailiffs fees for unpaid parking tickets. its £28. Send a replacement cheque for the actual ticket amounts + £28 with a letter explaining the fees are set by law namely: Schedule 1 et-al of the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs)(Amended 2003) Regulations 1993 and you will not be paying any more than what the law says. You could pay the council direct less the £28 and explain the bailiff made a false representation as to how much fees you had to pay and say the matter is in the hands of the Local Government Ombudsman.

[babybell123]

Thanks for the answer I did what you said but now there is another problem the bailiffs came yesterday to my father in laws and entered the property when they werent there through an unlocked back gate and a locked patio door yes LOCKED they then listed everything in the house and rang my mother in law to come home so they did none the wiser and came back to two men standing inn there living r. Not only that they gained entrance to the garage through a unlocked door and clamped my father in laws car in the garage and now want £350 on monday to take the clamp off now the question I want to ask is we are going to seek legal advice and dont really want to pay the £350 but if we dont pay can the bailiff force his way into a locked garage and take my father in laws car ??????? PLEASE HELP US !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ploddertom]

Whose actual name is on the warrant? Have you established whether the bailiffs have "forced" entry or not? If they have, have you contacted Plod to report it?

 

PT

[ploddertom]

Have a read of this to see if there is any grounds for appeal if you didn't get the paperwork.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?131121-Council-Parking-Fine....-but-NO-PCN-or-NTO-received-Advice!

 

PT

[fork-it]

Thanks for the answer I did what you said but now there is another problem the bailiffs came yesterday to my father in laws and entered the property when they werent there through an unlocked back gate and a locked patio door yes LOCKED they then listed everything in the house and rang my mother in law to come home so they did none the wiser and came back to two men standing inn there living r.

 

Does the debtor LIVE at the address they entered? if no then their certificate only allows to enter a DEBTORS property without permission. The bailiff may have commited burglary. Section 9 of the Theft Act 1968. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60

 

If damage has been caused to the property, then an offence under Section 1 of the Crininal Damage Act 1971 may have been committed.

 

Your Inlaws should contact police and get a crime number. They might have to be persistent because police have a propensity to dismiss complaints of bailiff crime to be a civil matter.

 

Not only that they gained entrance to the garage through a unlocked door and clamped my father in laws car in the garage

 

Take photographs of the wheelclamp fixed to the car, and if the car does not belong to the debtor, the owner of the car may remove the wheelclamp quite legally provided he can prove the car is his.

 

and now want £350 on monday to take the clamp off

 

The law does not provide for bailiffs to charge a fee to fix or remove a wheelclamp irrespective who owns the car. Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/section/2

 

There is case law: Case No 8CL51015 - Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). Before District Judge Advent 9th & 24th September 2008. the Judge said "because the bailiff produces no evidence as to how the charge had been arrived then he unable to show that it is reasonable costs".

 

Police may also dismiss this to be a civil matter, but the House of Lords has already ruled that police may not class bailiff crime to be a civil matter: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200607/ldhansrd/text/70420w0001.htm see under Crime Fraud.

 

Print all the above along with and a photograph of the clamped vehicle and documentary evidence the bailiff is charging £300 to remove it, when you contact police.

 

now the question I want to ask is we are going to seek legal advice and dont really want to pay the £350 but if we dont pay can the bailiff force his way into a locked garage and take my father in laws car ??????? PLEASE HELP US !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I find it strage the bailiff clamps a car while its inside a garage, especially as it not the property of the debtor.

It doesnt mater who the registered keeper it, its the driver who pays the parking fine.

 

Do take on baord the council is liable for their bailiffs and any legal redress you seek on a court is always addressed to the council, but you can name the bailiffs company as a 2nd defendant. For the short term, you need a crime number for the offences listed above.

[babybell123]

Thank you everyone for your quick replies just to clarify a few things the debtor does live at the address that was entered and the car and debt is in his name even though it is a different car.

 

All the paperwork we were given was a unsigned levy of everything in the house and the car that had a big circle around it there are no set out charges of what the bailiff want them to pay and my in laws didnt sign anything either.

 

I myself contacted essex police yesterday as we werent aware of the fact that they had entered the house via the patio until the neighbour alerted us to this so we looked at the patio door and it has been forced as it is always kept locked as my inlaws have no reason to go out there so I spoke to someone in essex police control room and they told me that there is not a crimnal case as yet it is still civil but I need to take photographic evidence of the patio door as it doesnt lock now and make an appointment to see a solicter asap so I took the photograpic evidence and am going to make an appointment tommorrow.

 

Basically everything the bailiff said to my inlaws about charges was verbal but they are frightened that if they dont pay the car will be removed again by forced entry as the garage is locked are they aloud to do this ??

[ploddertom]

Do you know how much the Bailiff is demanding?

Is there any chance you can post up a copy of the levy made? There may be exempt items on it, also it may be classed as an excessive levy.

Although they are charging your in-laws for all of this, is that whose name is on the Warrant?

You should also contact the Council - as said in Post 2 - about their vulnerable status, maybe you also need to get on to your local Councillor. The Council are responsible for the actions of their contractors - in this case the Bailiff - however if he has exceeded his powers and authority it will be the Bailiff alone who will be accountable, which is why you need Plod's help if they broke in.

 

PT

[fork-it]

they gained entrance to the garage through a unlocked door and clamped my father in laws car in the garage

 

I asked a friend of mine who is a solicitor, and she was very surprised by a bailiff clamping someone elses car inside a garage. That in itself could constitute theft of a motor vehicle if the bailiff knows or believes the car does not belong to the debtor, but its unlikely a crown procesutor will charge a bailiff under Section 12 of the 1968 Theft Act.

 

If you removed the clamp by cutting the chains using a lobster cutter then you may be liable for criminal damage under Section 1 of the Criminal damage Act 1971.

 

If the owner installed a "Stoplock" to the steering wheel and gear lever then locked the car and locked the garage, the bailiff may commit criminal damage to the garage and to the security device fitted to the vehicle if he appempts to take the car. It would be much easier for a crown prosecutor to prove a case against a bailiff at Court.

 

In the civil claims, its known that owners can claim the sum of £10 per day plus the cost of renting a replacement car and using taxis can be claimed against the authority for which the bailiff acts.

 

It would help if the claim is supported by a crime number. The owner must report the theft to police and attempt to get a crime number. The refusal by the police to issue a crime number investigated later under Section 5 of the Crininal Law Act 1967. If this happens in your case, then ask for an 'incident' number and the court can ask the police officer to attend or give a statement of truth.

[tomtubby]

Hi im writing on my behalf of my father in law who is in trouble with ross and roberts .

 

Basically my partner his son got a car and his dad registered it in his name then my partner got two parking tickets in this car which he has not paid.

 

So it went from the council to Ross and roberts and they visited my father in laws address on saturady morning now my mother and father in law are both quite ill his wife has serious diabetes and he himself is suffering from dementia so when Ross and roberts called my father in law not knowing any different let them in and then we got a phone call from my mother in law saying that Ross and roberts are in the house and they are going to take there stuff, so my partner has gone there straight away and found the bailiff in his parents porch way and wouldnt move. So to cut a long story short my partner accepted liability for the debt that wasin his dads name and the bailiff took a check for £490 from his mum and then levied the goods in the house and my partner signed the agreements.

 

Now we dont know wether or not the cheque will go through the account as both are pensioners and dont really have that kind of money but we needed to do something to get them off our backs while we try adn sort this out.

 

So I then started by writing a complaint to the local council and one to ross and roberts themselves explaining that my father in law and mother in law are classed as vulnerable and are willing to pay directly to the council but not the bailffs fees on top which are almost triple. So these were sent off one to ross and roberts a online complaint to the local council and one to the chief director. And the afternoon this is the response we had back from the council

 

They are basically saying that my partner had along enough time to repay the fines and that he had taken reponsbility for the debt that it noe falls down to him and that the council have spokeen to the bailiff who has confirmed that my partner has taken liability. and that the bailiff took great care when speaking to his mum and dad.

 

now i would like to know if there is anything we can do so that we can only pay the fine owed and not the bailff fees that are triple as my mother and father in law cannot afford this and neither can we as one is for £722 and the other £327 which is alot of money please help

 

 

 

Unfortunatly, your post is very confusing indeed and this is probably due to the first fee lines as follows:

 

Basically my partner his son got a car and his dad registered it in his name then my partner got two parking tickets in this car which he has not paid.

Are you trying to say that your partner has a car which was purchased by his father and which is registered in his fathers name?

 

I then understand that your partner had some parking tickets that he has not paid and which have now gone to the bailiff.

 

If the car is in your partners fathers' name, then sadly, the parking charge notice will also be in the fathers name and as far as the law is conerned the father is liable.

 

Can you please confirm the position?

 

Also, the car that has been clamped. Is this the fathers car?

 

Did your partner receive all statutory notices?

[babybell123]

Edited November 1, 2010 by babybell123

[babybell123]

[tomtubby]

Maybe it is my computer but I cant read the document.

[babybell123]

it's not your pc i just really dont know how to upload the scans ive done of ross and roberts levy pages could you help me please as this would be a lot quicker than typing everything out???

[ploddertom]

I think most recommend Photobucket but can't comment as have never used it.

 

PT

[babybell123]

right everyone thanks for the posts basically the orginal car that has the parking tickets was my partners but his father bought it for him so therefore the tickets have gone to his dad instead then they obviously didnt get paid and have gone to ross and roberts .

 

Now the first contact we had with ross and roberts mt partner said he takes liability for the fines and signed the first lot of papers from ross and roberts but the papers are still in his dads name but the bailiff said this was ok.

 

Now the second lot of papers no one signed as he levy was taken when there was no one in the house and the car got clamped without us knowing, the belongs to his dad but it is not the car that recieved the tickets

 

this is what the second unsigned levy says

 

NOTICE OF SEIZURE OF GOODS AND INVENTORY

The council Tax (administrstion and enforcement) local lists regulations 1992 regulation 45

the non domestic rating (collection and enforcement) local lists regulations 1989 regulation 14

 

RaR ref no xxxxxx

authority ref no exxxxxxxxx

 

authoriy chxxxxxxx

 

to mr xxxxx

 

address xxxxxx

 

and all others to whom it may concern

TAKE NOTICE that by virtue of a liability order made by the magistrates court i have today seized , distrained and impounded on the premises the goods specified in the following inventory for the sum owing to the above named authority plus costs.

 

AND FURTHER TAKE NOTICE that unless the said amounts and costs be paid together with the expenses of this distress within (no days specified) from the date hereof the goods will be sold according to law.

 

On expiry of the above stated number of days (there arent any) where payment has not been madegoods are liable for removal without further notice. This will involve you in further costs for attendence , cartage and storage.

 

AMOUNT FOR WHICH THE DISTRSS IS MADE

 

ARREARS DUE TO AUTHORITY £190

FIRST VISIT FEE £0

SECOND VISIT FEE £0

LEVY CHARGE £0

WALKING POSSESSION FEE £0

ENFORCEMENT FEE £490 .80

ADMIN FEE £0

TOTAL AMOUNT NOW DUE £766.71

 

INVENTORY TO WHICH THIS NOTICE REFERS

 

6X WOODEN CHARIS RED AND CHROMEDESIGN

1 X DINING ROOM TABLE

1X THREE SEATER SOFA

2X FABRIC ARM CHAIRS

1X BLACK SAMSUNG 42" TV

1X BLACK TV STAND

1X BLACK DLINK ROUTER

1X LARGE WOODEN DISPLAY UNIT

1X BLACK BEKO TV

1X WHITE WOODEN SMALL BEDROOM UNIT

1X FAUX LEATHER MIRROR

1X BLUE VAX VACUM CLEANER

1X SAMSUNG BLACK 32" TV

1X BLAK TOSHIBA TV

1X MINI WAYER COOLER

1X MINI FRIDGE

1X SNOOKER CUE+CASE

1XWHITE FAN

1X BOSCK IRON

1X ZALMAN HYBRID COOLING SYSTEM

2X PC KEYBOARDS

1X EPSON PICTURE MATE

1X NISSAN PRIMERA (CLAMPED IN GARAGE) 2004 plate low milage

 

This is levy that was taken a bit extreme isnt it considering the car covers it and more this was taken on the 29th and they have been back again today hassleing my father in law he has denmentia for god sake and they know this thankfully he didnt let them in and just said my son will deal with you and told them to come back in 3 hours that eas at 2 oclock what can we do this is getting ridicualous now HELP

[ploddertom]

No wonder you are confused. It would appear you have 2 separate issues here. You have the first with which you started off the thread which deals with what seems to be some unpaid parking tickets. What you have listed above however is something different and that is for non-payment of Council Tax.

 

The sum you have listed above does not add up - however the levy listed is excessive so and has items listed that I suspect will be exempt. Whose name is on the Liabilty Order? You must at the earliest opportunity contact the Council and get them to understand the conditions your in Laws suffer from. You should also contact your local Councillor to help act for you. I would suspect the Bailiff knows he is in the wrong but is taking advantage of your in Laws.

 

PT

[babybell123]

right but on all the papers they say they are fo rroad traffic even the one ive just listed all the fees are for road traffic unpaid parking tickets but only two outstanding tickets exsist it just doesnt make any sense the first thread was there first visit and what ive listed is what they have added on to the exsisting fine.

the liability order is in my partners dad name who is 70 in may.

i have already sent a complaint to the coucil and to the chief excuative after the first occasion but on the 29th the bailiff informed my in laws that the chief excuative had given him the go ahead , which doesnt make any sense either as three days earlier we recieved a letter from the cheif saying he was looking into the situation .

I have also made the council and ross and roberts aware of my father in laws condition and also the fact they both have high blood pressure and my mother in law is 67 with servere diabetes and is partially blind but they have seemed to ignore this fact and continue with pursueing them .

When they came home to find to men standing in threr living room they nearly killed over from fright as the bailiff didnt identify himself straight away my in laws just saw two people looking at them through there living room window I really think this isnt on !!!!!!!

Edited November 1, 2010 by babybell123

[ploddertom]

 

right but on all the papers they say they are fo rroad traffic even the one ive just listed all the fees are for road traffic unpaid parking tickets but only two outstanding tickets exsist it just doesnt make any sense the first thread was there first visit and what ive listed is what they have added on to the exsisting fine.

 

 

I'll be the first to admit I know very little of these so hope someone else will take them up.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

 

the liability order is in my partners dad name who is 70 in may.

 

i have already sent a complaint to the coucil and to the chief excuative after the first occasion but on the 29th the bailiff informed my in laws that the chief excuative had given him the go ahead - believe nothing the Bailiff says, you should expose him for the lies he is giving out, which doesnt make any sense either as three days earlier we recieved a letter from the cheif saying he was looking into the situation - you need to get back on to the Council to ask them to put this on hold until they complete their investigation .

I have also made the council and ross and roberts aware of my father in laws condition and also the fact they both have high blood pressure and my mother in law is 67 with servere diabetes and is partially blind but they have seemed to ignore this fact and continue with pursueing them . have you done this in writing and did you supply any proof, a letter from their Doctor for example.

 

When they came home to find to men standing in threr living room they nearly killed over from fright as the bailiff didnt identify himself straight away my in laws just saw two people looking at them through there living room window I really think this isnt on !!!!!!!

 

You must try your local Councillor. Have you also contacted the local Press - unfortunately they will love a story like this. Have you had any feedback from the local Police re the forced entry - if you are getting nowhere ask to speak to the person in charge at the station, if necessary a message should be sent to the Chief Constable informing him of matters with a threat of involving the IPCC if they fail to act.

 

PT

[seanamarts]

Ross and Roberts DONT act with in the law, they will fob you off and ignore your letters. My advise is to see your local councillor and or your MP. Please press this matter with the police as they cannot break in unless they have an order from the court, which I highly doubt. As for the levy it is however invalid, there are exempt items listed plus it is extremely excessive to what you owe. Your in-laws also come under the National standards as vulnerable and this should also be made aware with the council. Have you checked to see if the bailiffs in question were certificated. I know for sure that in the past that Ross & Roberts have used un-certificated bailiffs so please do check.

[babybell123]

Hello Seanamarts i have ask for the names and the first bailiff said his name and i ask who the other bailiff was and he said mr dan ive never heard of a surname of mr dan but i did check to see if the first bailiff was registered bailiff and his name did come up but he did not show me any i.d. so he could be lying who is .i did also try mr dan but his name came upwith differnt bailiffs companys

 

 

you are correct very excessive levys but what i'm going to say is what do i do next as they have clamped my in laws car in the garage and now the car can not be used because of clamped car???????

Edited November 2, 2010 by babybell123

[seanamarts]

Do your in laws possess a blue badge? are they on any benefits at all ie DLA Motability etc

[seanamarts]

You need to write/ email Ross & Roberts demanding a copy of both bailiffs certificate, they have to comply. If one of the bailiffs is registered with another company then he is going to be in some deep do do.

[Surfer01]

These guys think they can get away with murder!