Google mapping CCTV car hotspots

[Esinem]

So far only covering some of central London but hopefully this will build up to provide an extensive resource of places to be extra careful and maybe even get added to sat nav POI's: CCTV car map

 

Please feel free to add locations here and I'll pass them on.

[green_and_mean]

Surely if you just avoided doing anything wrong there would be no need for a map, what sort of idiot would check a map to see if its safe to stop on a bus stop or zig zags?

[sailor sam]

Surely if you just avoided doing anything wrong there would be no need for a map, what sort of idiot would check a map to see if its safe to stop on a bus stop or zig zags?

 

The kind who think it's ok to drop off and pick up passengers on them!

[Esinem]

If people avoided doing anything wrong, there would be no need for the Parking/Traffic offences section of this forum. This place is full of "idiots", as M&G calls his fellow forum members, checking to see how they can get off their fines. QED.

 

In many cases, it is not so simple. Inadequate and poorly placed signs and road markings mean that motorists have no idea they are committing an offence in many cases. The cars are intended to be a visible deterrent, this aids that aim and increases compliance by raising driver awareness. The alternative is to allow offences to occur thus jeopardising road safety and raising revenue. Which do you prefer?

 

PS M&G, why are you on a forum relating to offences when you are so much 'holier than thou'?? Just to throw stones at sinners? Shame! You should show mercy and compassion to us mere mortals with our frailties

Edited October 20, 2010 by Esinem

[Esinem]

The kind who think it's ok to drop off and pick up passengers on them!

 

Were you thinking of CCTV car stopping on the double yellows to pick up lunch from Tescos or drop off crew at home?

[dragonkeeper]

 

 

 

 

If people avoided doing anything wrong, there would be no need for the Parking/Traffic offences section of this forum. This place is full of "idiots", as M&G calls his fellow forum members, checking to see how they can get off their fines. QED.

 

In many cases, it is not so simple. Inadequate and poorly placed signs and road markings mean that motorists have no idea they are committing an offence in many cases. The cars are intended to be a visible deterrent, this aids that aim and increases compliance by raising driver awareness. The alternative is to allow offences to occur thus jeopardising road safety and raising revenue. Which do you prefer?

 

PS M&G, why are you on a forum relating to offences when you are so much 'holier than thou'?? Just to throw stones at sinners? Shame! You should show mercy and compassion to us mere mortals with our frailties

 

 

 

 

 

Were you thinking of CCTV car stopping on the double yellows to pick up lunch from Tescos or drop off crew at home?

 

 

 

 

how to make friends and influence people.

 

I think some how offering the defence of it was not in my sat nav or on google map would wash at an appeal stage.

 

 

 

dk

 

ps, I do not mind mixing with G & M and Sailor Sam

[sailor sam]

Were you thinking of CCTV car stopping on the double yellows to pick up lunch from Tescos or drop off crew at home?

 

No. Don't think putting CCTV to cover DY's is either practical or necessary. DY's aren't the same animal as zig-zags at pedestrian crossings/outside schools which is where CCTV would be useful.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

[sailor sam]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

how to make friends and influence people.

 

I think some how offering the defence of it was not in my sat nav or on google map would wash at an appeal stage.

 

 

 

dk

 

ps, I do not mind mixing with G & M and Sailor Sam

 

Absolutely! By the way DD; I think you most certainly do 'need coffee!'

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Esinem]

I would very much less anti if they were used for the public benefit, e.g. zig zags outside schools. My local one ignores the school in the same road and hides where it can nick people parking in No Loading at Any Time or Residents' Bays. I will let you know how the data I have requested via an FOI Request stacks up. It will allow me to compare the deployment of CCTV cars and revenue collected with accident black-spots. I suspect there will be no relationship in the two 'league tables' ;-)

[green_and_mean]

Were you thinking of CCTV car stopping on the double yellows to pick up lunch from Tescos or drop off crew at home?

 

Why not its perfectly legal for anyone to pick up or drop off on double yellows or pick up goods, maybe you should read the highway code before trying to be clever.

[green_and_mean]

I would very much less anti if they were used for the public benefit, e.g. zig zags outside schools. My local one ignores the school in the same road and hides where it can nick people parking in No Loading at Any Time or Residents' Bays. I will let you know how the data I have requested via an FOI Request stacks up. It will allow me to compare the deployment of CCTV cars and revenue collected with accident black-spots. I suspect there will be no relationship in the two 'league tables' ;-)

 

Whilst I doubt very much permit bays are enforced using cctv since the camera cannot check for permits I expect those that actually pay for permits would see it as a benefit. As for no loading at anytime restrictions these are placed where parking would cause an obstruction so anyone that is not a selfish idiot would also see that being enforced as a benefit. No doubt shop lifters have the same feelings about cctv in shops but anyone that parks or drives properly has nothing to worry about. If a PCN is issued incorrectly it will all be captured on film so there is nothing to dispute and the CEO cannot lie, so surely you should be in favour of such conclusive evidence??

[Esinem]

Whilst I doubt very much permit bays are enforced using cctv since the camera cannot check for permits I expect those that actually pay for permits would see it as a benefit. As for no loading at anytime restrictions these are placed where parking would cause an obstruction so anyone that is not a selfish idiot would also see that being enforced as a benefit. No doubt shop lifters have the same feelings about cctv in shops but anyone that parks or drives properly has nothing to worry about. If a PCN is issued incorrectly it will all be captured on film so there is nothing to dispute and the CEO cannot lie, so surely you should be in favour of such conclusive evidence??

 

The purpose of the cars is declared as a 'visible deterrent' and according to Cran v Camden BC, the goal of enforcement should be "100% compliance without penalty". I am in favour of them being used legally. This means they should be a visible deterrent to discourage offences and not deployed in a manner which will maximise revenue by allowing offences to occur. At worst, this puts lives at risk for money, at best it is an abuse. I would like to see them deployed with maximum visibility where they can do the most good at accident black spots. Sadly, I can cite all too many examples of CCTV being employed where signs are very unclear and maximum revenue can be guaranteed. In these cases, correcting the signs would cost a fraction of what is spent on enforcement but that would be unprofitable. It is clear that in these cases the objective is raising revenue and that is an illegal objective according to the judge in Cran v CBC.

 

You are wrong about permits. Round my way, the CEO gets out of the car (usually leaving it running! I believe the offence is "quitting a motor vehicle") and then visually checks the permits before/after recording the VRN's via CCTV. However, I assume this is merely for extra verification (checking disability and council exemption permits etc.?) as it's not rocket science to weed out VRN's not matching the entries on the database of valid permits.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Esinem

[Esinem]

Why not its perfectly legal for anyone to pick up or drop off on double yellows or pick up goods, maybe you should read the highway code before trying to be clever.

 

One all! Yes, it seems under certain circumstances you can drop off/collect passengers. OTH, getting your lunch is definitely out. It seems neither of us are infallible:

 

Single and double yellow lines indicate that parking restrictions are in place and no waiting is allowed. You can park on single yellow lines outside the hours of control indicated in the adjacent timeplate, but you cannot park on double yellow lines at any time.

 

Both single and double yellow lines have the same restrictions for loading, unloading, picking up and dropping off passengers. Single and double yellow lines may also be accompanied by kerb markings, which indicate additional parking restrictions.

 

Please note that yellow lines apply from the centre of the road to the edge of the highway. This includes pavements and verges alongside the yellow lines. This means that you cannot park on the pavement or verge by a yellow line.

Single yellow lines

 

Are active for the times shown on the time plate next to the line. Check the length of the line to see if there are any plates.

 

Double yellow lines

 

These are active 24 hours a day, every day.

 

Loading or Unloading

 

Loading and unloading is allowed where there are no kerb markings indicating a ban on loading. Loading and unloading is considered to be taking the items to and from the vehicle but does not cover packing, unpacking or assembly and stopping for a conversation. Stopping to go to the toilet is also not covered.

 

As soon as the last item is loaded or unloaded, then the vehicle must be moved to a parking place.

 

Picking up and dropping off passengers

 

Drivers can stop on yellow lines to pick up or drop off passengers, but waiting for passengers is not permitted. When picking up or dropping off you must stay with your vehicle at all times unless your passengers need help getting into or out of your vehicle.

[esmerobbo]

I think we all know you both aren't going to agree. I can however see both your points of view!

 

If you don't commit a parking/driving violation then film away we have nothing to worry about.

 

Yet if the council has a problem area, that needs enforcing I believe the camera should be there in full view or signs informing you that a cctv is being used. It then achieves its objective and stops the problem or if you choose to take a chance you get a ticket.

 

If the council know the area is a problem and it covertly films then tickets motorists, that can only be a thought of as revenue earner!

 

I can see Esinem's point if they are going to use them we should know where they are. If we then take a chance tough!

 

I can see G & M's point don't violate and it does not matter.

[green_and_mean]

One all! Yes, it seems under certain circumstances you can drop off/collect passengers. OTH, getting your lunch is definitely out. It seems neither of us are infallible:

 

Single and double yellow lines indicate that parking restrictions are in place and no waiting is allowed. You can park on single yellow lines outside the hours of control indicated in the adjacent timeplate, but you cannot park on double yellow lines at any time.

 

Both single and double yellow lines have the same restrictions for loading, unloading, picking up and dropping off passengers. Single and double yellow lines may also be accompanied by kerb markings, which indicate additional parking restrictions.

 

Please note that yellow lines apply from the centre of the road to the edge of the highway. This includes pavements and verges alongside the yellow lines. This means that you cannot park on the pavement or verge by a yellow line.

Single yellow lines

 

Are active for the times shown on the time plate next to the line. Check the length of the line to see if there are any plates.

 

Double yellow lines

 

These are active 24 hours a day, every day.

 

Loading or Unloading

 

Loading and unloading is allowed where there are no kerb markings indicating a ban on loading. Loading and unloading is considered to be taking the items to and from the vehicle but does not cover packing, unpacking or assembly and stopping for a conversation. Stopping to go to the toilet is also not covered.

 

As soon as the last item is loaded or unloaded, then the vehicle must be moved to a parking place.

 

Picking up and dropping off passengers

 

Drivers can stop on yellow lines to pick up or drop off passengers, but waiting for passengers is not permitted. When picking up or dropping off you must stay with your vehicle at all times unless your passengers need help getting into or out of your vehicle.

 

Thanks for copying and pasting that, but they are a guidance and not the law. There is nothing to stop someone stopping on a DYL to collect a take away lunch that had been pre ordered. There are also numerous exemptions to DYL such as blue badge holders, removals vehicles, refuse vehicles, vehicles carrying out highways or utility works, Police, Fire or other emergency vehicles and vehicles carrying out statutory duties.

[green_and_mean]

You are wrong about permits. Round my way, the CEO gets out of the car (usually leaving it running! I believe the offence is "quitting a motor vehicle") and then visually checks the permits before/after recording the VRN's via CCTV. However, I assume this is merely for extra verification (checking disability and council exemption permits etc.?) as it's not rocket science to weed out VRN's not matching the entries on the database of valid permits.

 

Well if thats the case cctv is not being used then is it?? Its also not rocket science to realise blue badges, visitors permits and other permits that are not vehicle specific cannot be checked. When you show me a PCN for no permit issued in the circumstances you claim I may be less sceptical.

[sailor sam]

I thought we were talking about CCTV covering zig zags. As I said before, they have no stopping (other than to allow pedestrians to cross ect) exemptions like DYs have. DYs allow you to stop on them but not to park.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Esinem]

"There is nothing to stop someone stopping on a DYL to collect a take away lunch that had been pre ordered."

 

I'd like to see you test that one! AFAIK, Tesco don't offer that facility for sandwiches.

[sailor sam]

"There is nothing to stop someone stopping on a DYL to collect a take away lunch that had been pre ordered."

 

I'd like to see you test that one! AFAIK, Tesco don't offer that facility for sandwiches.

 

Yes, i do agree that I don't think a CEO would ok that... but what has it got to do with Tesco?

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[starfarer]

A nice idea but need more on places where loading bans are enforced on certain times. A recent news on Haringey council's CCTV enforcement on Green Lane can be put as an example http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23885153-drivers-baffled-by-16-parking-rules-on-road-thats-netted-pound-564000-in-fines.do. I've been to that place and by the time you understand the restrictions after going through the whole time plate, a PCN is already printing ready for post . It's nothing to do with breaking law or code but more with confusing multiple restrictions. You see a bay for parking, find time plate and digest the whole restrictions that are applicable only to realise that the time is allocated as No Loading. Too late. Same on Single Yellow Line with single kerb marks given that both are clearly marked only to find that the loading exemptions do not apply on that time.

[green_and_mean]

A nice idea but need more on places where loading bans are enforced on certain times. A recent news on Haringey council's CCTV enforcement on Green Lane can be put as an example http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23885153-drivers-baffled-by-16-parking-rules-on-road-thats-netted-pound-564000-in-fines.do. I've been to that place and by the time you understand the restrictions after going through the whole time plate, a PCN is already printing ready for post . It's nothing to do with breaking law or code but more with confusing multiple restrictions. You see a bay for parking, find time plate and digest the whole restrictions that are applicable only to realise that the time is allocated as No Loading. Too late. Same on Single Yellow Line with single kerb marks given that both are clearly marked only to find that the loading exemptions do not apply on that time.

 

The sign you give as an example is perfectly clear and has the no waiting time at the top so you would read it first, not to mention there is also a single yellow line. The different times on each side of the road are because rush hour traffic goes in different directions morning and afternoon besides why would anyone assume the yellow lines all had the same hours? We have similar restrictions locally and the majority of those that get caught do so on more than one occasion because they cannot be bothered to walk from a side street to buy a coffee or paper and decide to risk it, it has nothing to do with confusing signs. In the location you show you have to ignore a yellow line, kerb blips. a no waiting/loading timeplate, a machine that does not issue tickets and a notice telling you when you can park on the front of the machine......just how thick do you have to be??

[starfarer]

In the location you show you have to ignore a yellow line, kerb blips. a no waiting/loading timeplate, a machine that does not issue tickets and a notice telling you when you can park on the front of the machine......just how thick do you have to be??

 

Exactly, I was thick in those days but now these signs look much easier to me only because I'm reading posts here almost on daily basis and seeing others example . The one where I'd ticket was almost no yellow line and no kerb blips , a time plates that were at the end of bays with NO loading sign sandwitched between other restrictions and to read have to get off the car, bay with p&d machine and machine still giving out ticket. Realised that the time on P&D ticket was not as expected and went through the sticker that was on machine . But it was too late and PCN was at doorstep within 3 days. God! are we not even allowed to find out whether parking is allowed on certain places at certain time? Are we to read those time plates or sticker on machine while car is moving??

 

 

why would anyone assume the yellow lines all had the same hours?

 

Just for future references, is there any better way to find out the times without stopping car or looking at time plates?

 

 

the majority of those that get caught do so on more than one occasion because they cannot be bothered to walk from a side street to buy a coffee or paper and decide to risk it

 

Not sure about majority but will agree if you mean by minority.

[green_and_mean]

Just for future references, is there any better way to find out the times without stopping car or looking at time plates?

 

You are permitted to stop to check signs except on a red route but no doubt you will have examples of where drivers have got PCNs for doing just that? The one good thing about cctv is if you did get a PCN in those circumstances it would be clear from the evidence and a simple appeal rather than an adjudicator trying to work out whos story was more credible several months later.