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    • what rights of access do you have on your agreement with the landlord?   i suspect you shouldn't have to pay a thing.
    • then there is your proof to them why would you pay for BB twice!!   for my notes: GENERAL NOTES ON CHARGEBACK & Continuous Payment Authority & BACS   .....  We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them  not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companies  . http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/- it works! usually this should be done using the number on your debit card  .  banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers ! . CANCELLING YOUR DEBIT CARD DOES NOT STOP CPA'S  .  This fsa guide has now been updated:  . http://www.fsa.gov.uk/static/pubs/consumer_info/know_your_rights_guide.pdf http://www.fca.org.uk/news/continuous-payment-authorities-your-right-to-cancel https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/unauthorised-payments-account  .  Here's the text:  .  Cancelling a regular  card payment:  .  When you give your credit or debit card details to a company and authorise them to take regular payments from your account,   such as for a gym membership or magazine subscription,  it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’ or ‘continuous payment authority’.  . These are often confused with direct debits, but do not offer the same guarantee if the amount or date of the payment changes.  .  In most cases, regular payments can be cancelled by telling the company taking the payments.   .  However,   you have the right to cancel them directly with your bank or card issuer by telling it that you have stopped permission for the payments.   Your bank or card issuer must then stop them – it has no right to insist that you agree this first with the company taking the payments.  .  Be aware, though, that you will still be responsible for paying any money that you owe. and that CANCELLING YOUR CARD WILL NOT STOP THE CPA  .  ..  .  New june 2013  .  Regulator orders Banks and mutuals to review complaints about not cancelling recurring payments from November 2009.  .  Consumers who have set up a regular payment from their account will now be able to successfully cancel that arrangement   by contacting their card provider, the Financial Conduct Authority said.  .  The FCA has been examining how easy it is for customers to cancel Continuous Payment Authorities (CPAs)   due either to payday lendersicon or for other regular payments such as subscriptions or gymicon memberships.  .  CPAs, which are also commonly called recurring transactions or recurring payments,   are relatively easy to set up but can be hard to cancel, causing problems for consumers trying to manage their finances,the FCA said.  .  Now, following the FCA review of how the largest high street banks and mutuals process requests to cancel CPAs, they have agreed that they will ensure that when   a customer asks for a recurring payment to end, that will be sufficient to cancel the arrangement. They have also confirmed that should a payment go through by   mistake following cancellation by a customer the customer will be refunded immediately.  .  In addition to securing this commitment, the largest banks and mutuals have agreed to review every individual complaint they have received about the non-  cancellation of a CPA and to pay redress where payments have continued to be made despite the customer cancelling the arrangement. This applies to all complaints   since November 2009 when the Financial Services Authority, the FCA’s predecessor, began regulating banking conduct.  .  Clive Adamson, the FCA’s director of supervision, said: “It’s important that consumers are confident that banks are meeting their everyday banking needs. Today   customers can be confident that when they ask for a Continuous Payment Authority to be cancelled – it will be cancelled - and that it can be done easily.   . “We recognise that historically this is an area where some customers have struggled but the banks and mutuals have responded positively to our work on this issue.   From now on we expect them to be getting this right. In addition, they have committed to review past complaints.” .  .  Also mentioned your displeasure that as whomever took your money had obviously attempted this many times   probably activating your banks own anti fraud software - nobody had the decency to inform my you this was going on.? .  .In the FSA's own words:  .  ..  What should I do about a payment from my account that I didn’t authorise?  .  Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction.   Money can only be taken from your account if you have authorised the transaction   or if your bank can prove you were at fault –  . see below.  Contact your bank immediately if you notice an unauthorised payment from your account. .  If you are sure you did not authorise the payment, you can claim a refund.  .  However, your bank does not have to refund you if you do not tell it about the payment until 13 months  or more after the date it left your account.  .  Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction  .  ------------------  .  Your bank may only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if:  .  ? it can prove you authorised the transaction  – though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password,   card and PIN proves you authorised a payment; or .  ? it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently,   or because you deliberately,   or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction  .  -----------------------  .  How quickly must my bank refund me for an unauthorised transaction?  .  The bank must make the refund immediately unless it has evidence that one of the above reasons applies.   Your bank may ask you to answer some questions and fill out a form confirming what has happened,   but it cannot delay your refund while it waits for you to return the form.  If the bank has evidence that one of the above reasons for refusing a refund applies,   it may investigate before making a refund   but must look into it as quickly as possible.   If your bank rejects your claim for a refund it should explain why.  If the transaction was on a credit card, the refund may not happen immediately.   But the card issuer cannot charge interest or ask for repayment of the amount unless it can prove you are liable to pay        
    • Only asking because I want to get my facts right before I approach the bank! Yes, BT is coming out of the same account.
    • not if they want to make the OP the named claimant no!! let them take the other party to court themselves!! the op can be a witness then..   one bitten...read this thread..      
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    • Hi,  
      I was in Sainsbury’s today and did scan and shop.
      I arrived in after a busy day at work and immediately got distracted by the clothes.
      I put a few things in my trolley and then did a shop.
      I paid and was about to get into my car when the security guard stopped me and asked me to come back in.
      I did and they took me upstairs.
      I was mortified and said I forgot to scan the clothes and a conditioner, 5 items.
      I know its unacceptable but I was distracted and Initially hadn’t really planned to use scan and shop.
      No excuse.
      I offered to pay for the goods but the manager said it was too late.
      He looked at the CCTV and because I didn’t try to scan the items he was phoning the police.
      The cost of the items was about £40.
      I was crying at this point and told them I was a nurse, just coming from work and I could get struck off.
      They rang the police anyway and they came and issued me with a community resolution notice, which goes off my record in a year.
      I feel terrible. I have to declare this to my employer and NMC.
      They kept me in a room on my own with 4 staff and have banned me from all stores.
      The police said if I didn’t do the community order I would go to court and they would refer me to the PPS.
      I’m so stressed,
      can u appeal this or should I just accept it?
      Thanks for reading 
      • 16 replies
Guest purplemushroomfairy2

Reposession fight hsbc business loan

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 3131 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

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Guest purplemushroomfairy2


my husband signed a mortgage in 2004 for a business loan against our property.

I was coerced into signing, (long story but 'prima facia' evidence).


At no time were either of us told about an 'all monies clause'.


Business liquidated in 2005, trying for five years to get a meeting with the bank to organise a payment plan.


they won't see us and want the house.


Credit is now 0 because of all of their defaults and demands for immediate full and final payment.


In court this week, their barrister made a big point of saying that HSBC had not sold on the debts, but they have.

Most are in default because no CCA.

I have CCJ and Charge for one because CAB told me to admit it!!!!!!!!!:mad2:


Can the bank still have an 'all monies charge' if they have sold the debts on?


Where do we stand with the 'pre action protocol'

ie, our home is a residential property and, other than a few hiccups due to unemployment

we have been making overpayments on the mortgage for 18 months voluntarily.


We can now pay the debt off over about 15 years,

their solicitors are arguing that they will argue that the judge does not have jurisdiction

- does that mean that they do.


So messed up and confused,

can't get the legal insurance to pay up what do we do.


Mananged to get unitl next April.


thinking of just selling up and starting again.

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Hello and Welcome, purplemushroomfairy2.


I'm going to move this thread to our Reposessions Forum, I'll see if another Mod Ell-enn can help.

I'll send you a Private Message with a link to the moved thread, check your 'Notifications'.






Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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Guest purplemushroomfairy2


need some advice,


defences going in on 27th October.

I am finding it hard to get information on 'all monies clause',

I understand now, that the claimant can lump all personal debt together,

however, can they do that if the main debt is a buisness loan and the other debt is seperate?


Also, if someone in that organisation has sold off about 35K worth of personal debt to disreputable £$*****'s

(who cant prove they own the debt but succeed in messing up your life anyway with CCJ's etc)

can the claimant STILL caim all monies.


was rather hoping that it would 'null and void' the clause and we might be able to pay them back without becoming homeless!


Have had a delve in chitty but the court charges a fortune for photocopying!


Any guidance and references to chitty would be great, would love to wipe the smile of the smug £$$$%**'s face again!

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Hi I am no expert they will be along later but I believe that a creditor cannot lump all debts together they have to prove that each debt can be legally enforced so if they did lump them together then you prove one debt unenforceable then to me the total debt would be unenforceable.



cannot find it A to Z





Halifax :D

Paid in full £2295


MBNA:mad: 20/03/2008 settled in full out of court


Capital One:D

07/07/2007 Capital one charges paid in full £1666

19/01/2008 recovered PPI £2216 + costs


Littlewoods :-D

12/08/2007 write off £1176.10 debt.


JD Williams charges refunded in full £640

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A recent decision of the Court suggests a retention of title clause (commonly referred to as a ROT clause)


may be ineffective if its operation is inconsistent with the overall trading relationship between the parties.

This may include where such a clause is introduced in the context of an agreement to supply finished goods for immediate resale.


An "all monies" clause provides that the supplier retains ownership of all goods supplied until all monies owing to him by the purchaser,

however arising, have been paid.


However, where a party regularly purchases its stock in trade from a supplier in order to sell that stock to consumers,

it is very unlikely the parties intend for the purchaser to discharge "all monies" it owes to the supplier before selling the stock.


In this case, the relevant contract contained provisions that allowed the purchaser to on-sell the stock it had purchased

(without discharging its balance with the supplier), and to continue to do so even following the purchaser's insolvency.


The court found that these provisions overrode the "all monies" retention of title clause.


This case shows the importance of drafting a retention of title clause that is appropriate to the type of business being carried out,

and the need to ensure the rest of the contract is performed in a way consistent with the retention of title protection which the clause is designed to achieve.


While the retention of title clause in this case was validly incorporated in the contract, and was clear as to its own terms,

it did not fit with the fact that the relevant goods against which the right of retention was claimed were designed to be immediately on-sold by the purchaser.


The "all monies" nature of the retention of title clause conflicted with the revolving nature of the stock:

in reality it would have been scarcely practical for the purchaser to discharge "all monies" to the supplier before selling the stock to retail consumers

(against whom the supplier's rights of retention would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible, to enforce).


The decision of the court, and more importantly the rationale behind the decision,

suggests that it would be difficult to incorporate an effective "all monies" retention of title clause in an agreement dealing with "revolving stock";

where the intention of all parties is that the goods are on-sold immediately.


This case is also a reminder that effective retention of title rights simply entitle the supplier to the return of his goods

if they are not paid for: they are not effective "security" for any debt owed to the supplier.


A supplier with the benefit of retention of title cannot simply demand the value of the goods from the insolvency office holder

as some kind of priority debt on insolvency.


It remains incumbent on suppliers to monitor the delivery and payment processes for goods in which it claims rights of retention.


Although the moratorium that applies in an administration would, in this particular case, have prevented the claimant from attempting to repossess

the stock without the administrators' (or the court's) consent, there is little suggestion that the claimant ever viewed

the retention of title clause as imposing performance obligations on his part

(such as monitoring of items of stock delivered and making a formal demand for their return).

We could do with some help from you.



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If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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Guest purplemushroomfairy2

I appreciate that our situation is different to many and is complicated. We don't know what to do. My husband has offered £600 pcm in addition to £700 we already pay to mortgage. They refused, no reason.Court have now gone for directions and multi tracking andf we have to get the defence in next week. Apparently it's going to be hard, all we want to do is pay the ruddy debt! They have not adhered to any of the FSA guidelines and have only been interested ingetting the house. Feeling as though there is no way out now, was really hoping that someone could help.

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I've merged your 2 threads together so all information is together making it easier for others to follow your progress and offer advice.


As you say your story is not straightforward, so could you explain a little more please. Perhaps a sequence of events with bullet points of what's happened so far and what's happening now.


What's Best for You?



The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.


Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007



Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Guest purplemushroomfairy2


2004: Husband attempts to get business loan from banks including HSBC. All refuse. He is rung by his 'premier manager' at HSBC Liverpool (we live in kent). She asks about his O/D currently 5K. He says he is trying to start a busines but can't get loan, even HSBC won't give him loan. She says, 'come up to Liverpool we will sort it out'

Meeting with DH and his 'friend' who will be Service Director.


Long story short, Bank managed to get us to sign as personal gurantors to the business debts without telling us, common practice apparently.

I have strong 'undue influence' case ( another story)


Business loan was organised by HSBC despite knowing that he had been turned down. They leant 100K for a new start up against my home to be paid back in 10 years!!!!


Buisness liquidated in Nov 2005. HSBC have refused to have any meetings with us and have pushed us from pillar to post, no support, no discussions no we can help you etc.


They started threatening repo in 2007 Jan, DH out of work. Put house on market for 18 months, global crisis no sale.

No contact for three years from HSBC, suddenly repo hearing. manged to put them off with dodgy defences but we want to have the terms of the original contract looked at again to extend the time to enable us to pay off.

Am also taking out a counter claim against the soloicitors that advised me badly.


I honestly feel like giving up, no one will help, we know that they have done wrong but it appears we are completely %$%&^&!


Any help, even kind words would be appreciated, I just want to have a life again.

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I'm trying to find you some help.


There's obviously a lot going on here. You say that you've managed to fight off the repo, so what are your priorities here?


You're clearly very stressed, and this isn't going to be sorted overnight, so I suggest you take one thing at a time. I'm a great believer in bite size pieces. Keep nibbling away at things and in time you'll get through everything.


One thing you could do to begin with is put in a complaint to the bank, if you haven't already done so, and if you don't get a satisfactory outcome, take it to the ombudsman to see if they can help.


What's Best for You?



The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.


Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007



Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Guest purplemushroomfairy2

Thanks for replying, we are still waiting for the bank to sort themselves out. They have agreed our offer, made last April (2011), have been to court to try to sort out related charging order but Judge said bank had to reclaim their debts in order to write them off!!!!

At present, hoping the remortgage will still happen.

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