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    • If the judge agrees that they are responsible for the consequences of the poor fitting – then yes, the judge will most likely award the entire amount of £480. There are two things to persuade the judge about: that the gasket blew as a result of the poor installation of the turbo that the cost of the work replacing the gasket was not excessive – in other words it was a reasonable cost. Of course we will support you in that we will give you advice and help you prepare – but of course at the end of the day the case is yours to win or lose. You know that we are thoroughly on your side. As I have said already, it will really help a great deal if you can get some garage mechanics to agree that the poorly fitted turbo would be likely to result in a blown gasket. If you have got the evidence – the old gasket and the bolts – then that will be very helpful. But you will have to do a good statement – and do some pictures. The way to do this statement would be to describe what has happened and then when you come to the turbo, for instance, you put in brackets (picture number one). When you come to the bolts, then you do the same thing (picture number two). Et cetera. That way you have a concise readable statement which references the pictures which should be stapled to the back of it. Also of course you will produce the bolts and the gasket in court. I think what will also be very helpful is the fact that the garage attempted to avoid you and to refuse to deal with you. I don't think the judge will be very impressed by that and this will assist you a great deal.  
    • seems more and more confirmed that Trump appointees delayed and restricted Capitol Police and National guard efforts to address expected Trump(Orange)/white supremacist attack on Capitol Hill     https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/26/us/biden-trump-impeachment
    • there is no template but as you say you saw the FTMDave reply ...
    • think it might need a bit of fluffing out. but look like the basics are there    
    • Good morning DX  good to see you!   i saw the same post too so thank you for sharing!   I am not that great with snotty letters etc, any pointing of where to get an idea/template from?   happy to type something up but I have no directing in which way to take it.   appreciate it!   Gee
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 31 replies

The issue of recording telephone conversations


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There have been a number of questions recently, regarding the legality of recording telephone conversations with the bank.

 

"So why not try this" !

 

In any letters of claim to your bank, at the bottom of your letter add a footnote, in the smallest font that is just about readable the words...

 

Please note that all calls maybe recorded for quality control and leagal purposes.

 

Then if there is any future court case against the bank you will be legally entitled to submit any phone conversation as evidence in your case, as you have already warned them that the call maybe recorded.

 

If the banks deny any such warning, then, so long as you have sent the letter by recorded post you can serve them a D.P.A request to prove that you have.

 

The banks do this every day, so its about time we used the same tactics

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An interesting point. Its not illegal to record phone call when you are a party to the call, but the problem would arise when you tried to introduce this call as evidence if the other party was unaware they were being recorded.

 

However, in law and espcially in trials there is such a thing as probative value versus prejudical value. What this means is that, although something shouls strictly not be admitted as evidence, if you can prove it is of sufficent authority to bring new substancial evidence the Judge can consider letting it in.

 

For example, if a bank used as defence 'we never chrage penalty charges, we expressly train our staff they are not and our staff would never say they were' etc etc.

 

then you produced a recording of NOT 1 but day, 10 banks staff telling you they are penalty charges you can ask the Judge to allow it as evidence. You'd need more than 1 or 2 member of staff as the bank would certainly succeeding in pursading the judge it was one or two 'rouge' operator who will receive immediate training etc. However, if you have 10 or so, that could be considered a pattern and the Judge would be more inclinded to allow it.

The law maybe reason without passion as Aristotle said, but hey, he said nothing about having fun when getting even!

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal expereince. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

Reputation Points Always Welcome

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probative value versus prejudical value

That's interesting. Am I to understand that in certain areas, the judge is allowed to exercise discretion in how some 'rules of process' are applied? I'm not suggesting that they are able to change the rules, but to determine, on a case by case basis, what part of the rules have a measure of flexibility. If so, then that is a good thing to bear in mind.

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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That's interesting. Am I to understand that in certain areas, the judge is allowed to exercise discretion in how some 'rules of process' are applied? I'm not suggesting that they are able to change the rules, but to determine, on a case by case basis, what part of the rules have a measure of flexibility. If so, then that is a good thing to bear in mind.

 

The classic example - You on trial for murdering a man. You are actually innocent, but the evidence is stacked against you and your certain to loose. However, you find out that say, his wife did it, and she had a video tape in her house that shows she did it and not you. You break into the house and steal the tape.

 

Now, under strict rule of evidence as the evidence was obtained in an illegal way, on this occation by burglary it would not be admissable. However, as the tape clearly proves your innocence after viewing it privately the Judge would decide IN THE INTERESTS OF JUSTICE the fact the the tape was obtained illegally is not as an important consideration as what probative value the evidence has - AND will have on the out come of the case. In this scenario, it would, lead to a directed verdict of not guilty.

 

Now, bank charges are not as exotic as murder! however, if they are, on oath swearing that there staff, who represent the company never refer to charges as penalties, and you can prove that do, this could cerainly be highly probate, "if it is your testimony is they, your staff do not make such represntations can you explain this" 1,2,3,4, etc they would have hard time doing so, Secondly, could it greatly alter the outcome of a case? This might be a sticking point, but in a civil case, when we are only looking for a balance or probability and especially in the 'relaxed' small claim court I think it could well be allowed.

The law maybe reason without passion as Aristotle said, but hey, he said nothing about having fun when getting even!

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal expereince. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

Reputation Points Always Welcome

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Maxie,

 

Great explanation, and as usual, clear and fully comprehensible. Thanks a lot!

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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  • 12 years later...

This topic was closed on 03/07/19.

If you have a problem which is similar to the issues raised in this topic, then please start a new thread and you will get help and support there.

If you would like to post up some information which is relevant to this particular topic then please flag the issue up to the site team and the thread will be reopened.

- Consumer Action Group

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